Watchtower Governing Body Casts Its Ballot on "New Light" For Voting

[Protestant101]

“deal properly…”??

Really? Read it again and explain to me how it does not apply to the Governing body of the WTS.

The issue is simple. The WTS governing body has not right to make laws as it were as to what is and what is not right for a Christian when such laws are not clear statements Laws that are enforced by the threat of being kicked out as a heretic, to lose one’s family, and to lose one’s standing before God.
THAT is the issue at hand!

I suppose you are now going to tell us that the Catholic Church does not also make such “laws” for certain people?

 

[Protestant101]

No, the real point is that if the modern “it’s a matter of personal conscience” perspective re: voting had applied in the 1960s in Malawi, some of those people who suffered and died might have instead found it acceptable according to their personal conscience to have purchased the card. Some might not have … we don’t know.

No one is blaming the actual victims of the murders and other crimes for following the strictures of their religion. The blame, of course, does belong to the actual perpetrators–but also to those people who sat in their comfortable American offices (and who face no real persecution of any sort for not voting) and told others that they HAD to accept such persecution … Well, it’s easy enough to tell someone else to die for your principles as long as you yourself come to no harm.

Catholics in their “comfortable offices” would also do the exact same thing, given the right circumstances. Just because they are in a “comfortable office” does not make them any more guilty than their brethren who actually did get murdered for their belief. What do you want the ones in America to do, go over there too so they can get butchered or persecuted, along with their friends? Would that make it better? The point is that this whole charade against the Witnesses is just that. You would be a lot better off showing from the Bible other points that JWs should look at

 

[Fidei]

You would be a lot better off showing from the Bible other points that JWs should look at

There is a separate thread for refuting JW claims from the doctrinal or scriptural viewpoint if that’s what you want.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=418225

What they’re merely discussing here is this so called “old light” which has caused the death of hundreds in Malawi for refusing political party cards while (at the very same moment) allowing themselves to illegally bribe officials in Mexico for this military service card.

 

[Vasian]

I suppose you are now going to tell us that the Catholic Church does not also make such “laws” for certain people?

There you go again…

It IS NOT even about said “laws” per say, but about the aggressive enforcement thereof as explained in my prior posts.

Start a thread about the Catholic Leadership and their strictly enforced laws that are backed up by being under compulsion of getting kicked out as a heretic.
Go ahead and try.

This thread is about the GB of the WTS.

 

[Vasian]

Catholics in their “comfortable offices” would also do the exact same thing, given the right circumstances.

Really? You are being presumptuous again, and speculating only to support your empty argument.

The Catholic church is 100% against abortion yet Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Vice President Biden of the United States are pro-abortion and promote pro-abortion yet they are not kicked out of the Catholic Church.

Just because they are in a “comfortable office” does not make them any more guilty than their brethren who actually did get murdered for their belief. What do you want the ones in America to do, go over there too so they can get butchered or persecuted, along with their friends? Would that make it better? The point is that this whole charade against the Witnesses is just that. You would be a lot better off showing from the Bible other points that JWs should look at

That has been, and is being done.

And, IMHO exposure of the Governing Body and what they do is important especially for those ones that may not know about such things, and then they can find out for themselves whether or not these things are so, or are falsehoods.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Some excellent observations. The WTS has indeed created to some degree a caricature of the CC, and they don’t even know it. Arch-Bishops=District Overseers, Bishops=Circuit Overseers, Prebysters=Elders, Deacons=Ministerial Servants. Also, a centralized authority, ie, Brooklyn, NY is an attempt to emulate the Vatican, etc.

Exactly!

Watchtower books debunk various Christian doctrines, and one of those is apostolic succession. It is called, “not a biblical doctrine.” But the Watchtower has a strong version of apostolic succession itself, through its corporation presidents and the governing body. They just don’t call it that!

 

[Protestant101]

I can see you are all well-pleased with what you are doing here so I will have to leave you to it. Maybe someday you will see how hypocritical this thread is, coming from a church that cannot even state the facts accurately about most of the denominations she is opposed to. There is a such thing as “apologetics,” then there are the facts…nice apologetics people.

 

[Vasian]

I can see you are all well-pleased with what you are doing here so I will have to leave you to it. Maybe someday you will see how hypocritical this thread is, coming from a church that cannot even state the facts accurately about most of the denominations she is opposed to. There is a such thing as “apologetics,” then there are the facts…nice apologetics people.

Hogwash

 

[Vasian]

Exactly!

Watchtower books debunk various Christian doctrines, and one of those is apostolic succession. It is called, “not a biblical doctrine.” But the Watchtower has a strong version of apostolic succession itself, through its corporation presidents and the governing body. They just don’t call it that!

So true… So very, very true.

 

[mackbrislawn]

I can see you are all well-pleased with what you are doing here so I will have to leave you to it. Maybe someday you will see how hypocritical this thread is, coming from a church that cannot even state the facts accurately about most of the denominations she is opposed to. There is a such thing as “apologetics,” then there are the facts…nice apologetics people.

I haven’t made much sense of 101’s comments. And the above doesn’t make much sense either.

“The denominations she is opposed to.” Huh? It’s the denominations that are opposed to the Catholic church! They, in their official publications and teachings, attack and oppose the Church all the time. It’s their raison d’etre.

 

[Protestant101]

I haven’t made much sense of 101’s comments. And the above doesn’t make much sense either.

“The denominations she is opposed to.” Huh? It’s the denominations that are opposed to the Catholic church! They, in their official publications and teachings, attack and oppose the Church all the time. It’s their raison d’etre.

We could just say that it takes two. The Catholic Church is a denomination; just like the rest of us. If you try to deny being opposed to us; well then I will have to say you have really fallen for a lie.

 

[Cursilista]

The difference with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is that it is much more like a publishing company that owns a church.

I totally agree, I was married to a JW. Each church is responsible for keeping track of how many pamphlets, bibles and magazines each member distributes. Each member is required to purchase these materials themselves and then distribute them. The members ask for donations from the people they are placing the materials with during their door to door visits. Any materials that are not placed, piles up at their house. Believe me I know. Each member has quotas to meet on the distribution of said printed materials. If they are not meeting their quotas , they are talked too about picking up the pace. Since each member is required to pay for the materials themselve, the printing co gets paid no matter what. Im not sure what happens to the monies collected from donations if it goes towards reimbursing the member or the individual church or the printing co.

One of the highest honors for the JW’s is being able to go and live in NY where the printing co. is located. They live in a comunnal setting and help do the publishing work that is being done at that facility. Im not sure if they are compensated for their labor, or if they need to pay for their room and board.

This facility in NY is considered their headquarters. They have bible scholars there that write the information that is contained in their pamphlets. Who these people are is, not widely published.

They are very organized in both their approach and their publications to converting people. They train the members on methods of bringing people to their way of thinking using quick bible reference material. They have to account for how many visits they make per month and how much material they distributed.

 

[Vasian]

Each member is required to purchase these materials themselves and then distribute them. The members ask for donations from the people they are placing the materials with during their door to door visits. Any materials that are not placed, piles up at their house. Believe me I know.

Not quite accurate as far as the members being required to buy the material. The material is free to everyone who wants it. However, there is a strong encouragement given that members really should “donate” or the WTS will go broke.

Each member has quotas to meet on the distribution of said printed materials. If they are not meeting their quotas , they are talked too about picking up the pace.

At least back in 97’ that was not true. It may be today. Also, it depends on the body of elders at any particular congregation. Some are more aggresive than others in promoting the distribution of materials, and some are not.

the printing co gets paid no matter what. Im not sure what happens to the monies collected from donations if it goes towards reimbursing the member or the individual church or the printing co.

Any money that is collected for printed materials goes back to N.Y…

One of the highest honors for the JW’s is being able to go and live in NY where the printing co. is located. They live in a comunnal setting and help do the publishing work that is being done at that facility. Im not sure if they are compensated for their labor, or if they need to pay for their room and board.

No wages, free room and board.

This facility in NY is considered their headquarters. They have bible scholars there that write the information that is contained in their pamphlets. Who these people are is, not widely published.

They are very organized in both their approach and their publications to converting people. They train the members on methods of bringing people to their way of thinking using quick bible reference material. They have to account for how many visits they make per month and how much material they distributed.

True.
They fill out a “Field Service Report” every month. Some children are as young as 10 years old. None of that is “required” of a Witness.
In order to get baptized, you have to be regular out in “field service”. This means that you should be putting in at least 8 hours a month in the door to door work. It varies.
However, after you are “in” you can do what you want. You just will not be considered to be very spiritually active.
Most all preaching and meeting activities are not requirements once you are in. However, the pressure and compulsion to do what is “strongly encouraged” by the powers to be is very great.
But… If you are going to be a JW then this is what you do.

 

[spn82756]

We could just say that it takes two. The Catholic Church is a denomination; just like the rest of us. If you try to deny being opposed to us; well then I will have to say you have really fallen for a lie.

Sounds like you’ve got no leg to stand on…so you’ve changed the attack position.

 

[Protestant101]

Sounds like you’ve got no leg to stand on…so you’ve changed the attack position.

Sounds like you can’t deny what I have said

 

[spn82756]

Sounds like you can’t deny what I have said

You’ve said nothing worth denying. You and JW’s are a selective group of gnostics that exclude everyone else from salvation…including each other.

And most protestants don’t particularly care to have you lumped in with them.

 

[Protestant101]

You’ve said nothing worth denying. You and JW’s are a selective group of gnostics that exclude everyone else from salvation…including each other.

And most protestants don’t particularly care to have you lumped in with them.

Ooooo, that hurt! LOL, I guess you haven’t read much of the last few posts. I had been replying to someone who said the Catholic Church was not opposed to us. That is what I said he could not deny. Are you denying it?

 

[spn82756]

Ooooo, that hurt! LOL, I guess you haven’t read much of the last few posts. I had been replying to someone who said the Catholic Church was not opposed to us. That is what I said he could not deny. Are you denying it?

No…I said you’re opposed to the Catholic Church! Isn’t the pope the anti-Christ? If you say no…I’ll post document after document to show it.

 

[mackbrislawn]

We could just say that it takes two. The Catholic Church is a denomination; just like the rest of us. If you try to deny being opposed to us; well then I will have to say you have really fallen for a lie.

Okay, if the Catholic Church is a denomination, it pre-existed all the Protestant denominations. All the Protestant denominations derived their belief in God and in scripture via the Catholic Church. So the CC has a somewhat different status as a “denomination” from the others. The others are derivative.

“If you deny being opposed to us…” I don’t know what this statement is intended to mean, and I don’t know who “us” is. Of course, the Church is always opposed to heresy, so if “us” means us heretics, then I suppose so, yes, the Church is opposed to “us.”

But here’s the thing…the Church did not start it. The heretics did. The Church simply exists, like Yahweh, I AM. Then the Watchtower is formed and starts calling the Church the Whore of Babylon, attacking its teachings, over and over again in official Watchtower publications. The Watchtower attacks Protestantism as well, calling it “the daughter of the Whore.” (Hmm. I wonder if that makes the Watchtower the granddaughter of the Whore!)

But anyway, the Catholic Church itself does not respond to these attacks. It ignores them. Belatedly, individuals, both Catholic and Protestant, respond, individually, to the attacks. In this forum, the Church is not involved at all, but simply indivdual persons. That is a far cry from the official attacks against the Church in the Watchtower and Awake magazines. Also from the attacks in Ellen G. White’s publications.

Truth always precedes error. To promulgate error, first you have to convince everybody that what is truth is not truth, but error. So you attack it, make fun of it. When that is accopmplished, you can now substitute your error for the truth. That is the strategy of the Watchtower, SDA, Luther, Arius, Mohammed, et al. We note that it is also the strategy of the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

 

[spn82756]

Okay, if the Catholic Church is a denomination, it pre-existed all the Protestant deonominations. All the Protestant denominations derived their belief in God and in scripture via the Catholic Church. So the CC has a somewhat different status as a “denomination” from the others. The others are derivative.

“If you deny being opposed to us…” I don’t know what this statement is intended to mean, and I don’t know who “us” is. Of course, the Church is always opposed to heresy, so if “us” means us heretics, then I suppose so, yes, the Church is opposed to “us.”

But here’s the thing…the Church did not start it. The heretics did. The Church simply exists, like Yahweh, I AM. Then the Watchtower is formed and starts calling the Church the Whore of Babylon, attacking its teachings, over and over again in official Watchtower publications. The Watchtower attacks Protestantism as well, calling it “the daughter of the Whore.” (Hmm. I wonder if that makes the Watchtower the granddaughter of the Whore!)

But anyway, the Catholic Church itself does not respond to these attacks. It ignores them. Belatedly, individuals, both Catholic and Protestant, respond, individually, to the attacks. In this forum, the Church is not involved at all, but simply indivdual persons. That is a far cry from the official attacks against the Church in the Watchtower and Awake magazines. Also from the attacks in Ellen G. White’s publications.

Truth always precedes error. To promulgate error, first you have to convince everybody that what is truth is not truth, but error. So you attack it, make fun of it. When that is accopmplished, you can now substitute your error for the truth. That is the strategy of the Watchtower, SDA, Luther, Arius, Mohammed, et al. We note that it is also the strategy of the serpent in the Garden of Eden.