Water Baptism NOT Necessary for Salvation!

[Abiien]

Haha! You guys are funny.

 

[believers]

Acts 2:38: And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

and Acts 22:16: And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

Here’s the real gospel…

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who paid for our sins in full with His blood on the cross. Jesus died and was resurrected by the power of God. Believe and repent

 

[believers]

Yeah, they had to follow all Jewish rituals. So? What does that prove? What personal sin could they commit if they never broke any of God’s commandments or ordiannces? How can anyone possibly commit a personal sin without breaking any commandment or ordinance of God?

Face it, Luke 1:6 shows that Zechariah and Elizabeth never committed a personal sin. You cannot disprove Luke 1:6 simply by saying that Zechariah and Elizabeth were required to follow Jewish ritual. That makes no sense.

Original sin. Right. You do know the difference between original sin and personal sin, right? Original sin is what’s being described in Romans Chapter 5: “the offense of one” is the original sin of Adam, which we all inherit. I’ve told you five times that Zechariah and Elizabeth inherited original sin. It is personal sin which they lacked, according to Luke 1:6. Personal sin is when you personally break God’s commandments. Luke 1:6 says that Zechariah and Elizabeth obeyed ALL God’s commandments BLAMELESSLY. “All means all until proven otherwise,” according to you. So Zechariah and Elizabeth never committed any personal sin, right? Why is that so hard to admit? It’s in Luke 1:6 in black and white.

You’re not getting it. They did sin. However, they did not have Christ for their atonement. They had to go to the temple themselves and sacrifice a lamb for their sins.

In the NT, Christ is the lamb for us all.

 

[Gamera]

Here’s the real gospel…

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who paid for our sins in full with His blood on the cross. Jesus died and was resurrected by the power of God. Believe and repent

I assume you meant Corinthians, rather than Chronicles, which is what you cited. It’s an easy beginners mistake. Corinthians is customarily cited Cor.

What makes those verses from First Corinthians more of the “real gospel” that the verses quoted from Acts? The fact that they come closer to matching your man-made traditions?

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

First you’ll have to answer this question. Are all catholics properly water baptized saved?

God said “baptism NOW SAVES”

Baptism doesn’t save. It justifies one before Christ because He commanded it. However, baptism could save you if you are baptized and die before you commit a mortal sin. Salvation is a life-long process beginning with Baptism in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

 

[Gamera]

You’re not getting it. They did sin. However, they did not have Christ for their atonement. They had to go to the temple themselves and sacrifice a lamb for their sins.

In the NT, Christ is the lamb for us all.

You are contradicting Luke 1:6. Neither Zechariah nor Elizabeth EVER broke ANY of God’s commandments. Deny that and you deny the inerrancy of Scripture. Zechariah and Elizabeth NEVER committed personal sin. They obeyed all God’s commandments blamelessly.

“And they were both righteous before God, walking in ALL the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless,” Luke 1:6.

Whoever told you that is impossible for a person not to commit personal sin is not telling you the truth. Read the Bible for yourself, cover to cover. Read consecutive chapters, not lone verses that somebody directs you to. See for yourself what the Holy Spirit has to say through Scripture. You’ve got to wonder … whoever the person is who “forgot” to tell you that Zechariah and Elizabeth never committed any personal sin, what ELSE have they been keeping from you?

 

[Church_Militant]

Here’s the real gospel…

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who paid for our sins in full with His blood on the cross. Jesus died and was resurrected by the power of God. Believe and repent

Pretty limited and not what Our Lord and all the apostles preached.

The passages in Acts are all in the context of the crucified and risen Christ. Again, you’re talking out your hat. I have yet to encounter a Catholic call to conversion that did not proclaim the sacrifice of Christ and his resurrection. In fact it occurs in every Mass. More straw men…

More cherry-picking…is baptism necessary for salvation of not believers? Are you baptized?

 

[believers]

I assume you meant Corinthians, rather than Chronicles, which is what you cited. It’s an easy beginners mistake. Corinthians is customarily cited Cor.

What makes those verses from First Corinthians more of the “real gospel” that the verses quoted from Acts? The fact that they come closer to matching your man-made traditions?

I don’t know what else to tell you… but requote…

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[believers]

Pretty limited and not what Our Lord and all the apostles preached.

The passages in Acts are all in the context of the crucified and risen Christ. Again, you’re talking out your hat. I have yet to encounter a Catholic call to conversion that did not proclaim the sacrifice of Christ and his resurrection. In fact it occurs in every Mass. More straw men…

More cherry-picking…is baptism necessary for salvation of not believers? Are you baptized?

Water baptism does not save.

Believe in the gospel and repent. Only then can you be baptized with the Holy Spirit. THE baptism that saves.

 

[Gamera]

I don’t know what else to tell you… but requote…

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Yeah … and ? What does that have to do with anything? I know that the wisdom of the cross is foolishness to men. Do you think that’s news to me? I know Christ paid for my sins with His blood. That’s elemetary.

 

[Gamera]

Water baptism does not save.

Believe in the gospel and repent. Only then can you be baptized with the Holy Spirit. THE baptism that saves.

Scripture says that water baptism DOES save. “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you …” 1 Peter 3:20-21

It’s your man-made tradition which denies the truth of Scripture. Read the Bible some more and rely less on what others tell you.

 

[believers]

Yeah … and ? What does that have to do with anything? I know that the wisdom of the cross is foolishness to men. Do you think that’s news to me? I know Christ paid for my sins with His blood. That’s elemetary.

Here’s what’s not elementary. Jesus does not become an atonement for your sins UNLESS you have faith in His gospel. You have faith in water baptism which is the baptism of repentance. If you read the OT with the understanding that a blood sacrifice is the only way for atonement… THEN you will understand that the Lamb of God is our atonement and not water baptism.

 

[Church_Militant]

Water baptism does not save.

Believe in the gospel and repent. Only then can you be baptized with the Holy Spirit. THE baptism that saves.

But that is NOT what the Word of God says.

You appear to be penetcostal…but what does Acts 2:38ff actually say? 38: And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39: For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
40: And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
41: So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
42: And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

 

[Gamera]

Here’s what’s not elementary. Jesus does not become an atonement for your sins UNLESS you have faith in His gospel. You have faith in water baptism which is the baptism of repentance. If you read the OT with the understanding that a blood sacrifice is the only way for atonement… THEN you will understand that the Lamb of God is our atonement and not water baptism.

I understand Jesus’ sacrifice which paid for our sins. And yes, it is elementary, to those of us who are fluent in Scripture and read it daily.

I do NOT have faith in water baptism. I have faith in Jesus’ shed blood. Baptism is a mere means through which Jesus confers grace. You are trying to establish a false dichotomy where someone relies on baptism “instead of” relying on Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Ridiculous. Catholics believe that Jesus’ shed blood washes away our sins. Baptism is merely a method through which Jesus applies His grace to us.

 

[Church_Militant]

Scripture says that water baptism DOES save. “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you …” 1 Peter 3:20-21

It’s your man-made tradition which denies the truth of Scripture. Read the Bible some more and rely less on what others tell you.

[SIGN]Exactly![/SIGN]But believers doesn’t wanna hear that. It contradicts the gospel he is spreading.

 

[believers]

I understand Jesus’ sacrifice which paid for our sins. And yes, it is elementary, to those of us who are fluent in Scripture and read it daily.

I do NOT have faith in water baptism. I have faith in Jesus’ shed blood. Baptism is a mere means through which Jesus confers grace. You are trying to establish a false dichotomy where someone relies on baptism “instead of” relying on Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Ridiculous. Catholics believe that Jesus’ shed blood washes away our sins. Baptism is merely a method through which Jesus applies His grace to us.

If you believe the following statement… Then you don’t have faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5

 

[believers]

[SIGN]Exactly![/SIGN]But believers doesn’t wanna hear that. It contradicts the gospel he is spreading.

I preach Christ crucified and to you it’s foolishness.

 

[Gamera]

If you believe the following statement… Then you don’t have faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5

Believers, just because someone doesn’t share your particular take on Scripture doesn’t mean they “don’t beleive the Gospel of Christ.” I am being very patient because you plainly are new at this, but please realize that ALL of us posting here LOVE JESUS with all our hearts. It is hitting below the belt to claim otherwise. Fair enough?

Now then – I’ve read the Catechism of the Catholic Church cover to cover. All 2865 sections. I’ve also read the Bible cover to cover (have you?). There is no conflict. The Catechism teaches exactly what Scripture teaches: that baptism is a method through which Jesus confers grace upon us. Yes, for the forgiveness of sins, but not “instead of Jesus’ shed blood.” It is ONLY Jesus’ shed blood which washes away our sins. Baptism is a mere method through which that grace is applied to us.

Scripture says that baptism washes away sins, Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ephesians 5:25-27; Titus 3:5-7; and that baptism is necessary for salvation, John 3:5; Gal. 3:27; 1 Peter 3:20-21.

“And Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’,” Acts 2:38

“Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name,” Acts 22:16.

“Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of the water with the word, that He might present the church to himself in splendor, without a spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish,” Ephesians 5:25-27

“…He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life,” Titus 3:5-7

Scripture makes clear that baptism is necessary for salvation.

“Jesus answered, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’,” John 3:5

“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ,” Gal. 3:27

“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ …” 1 Peter 3:20-21.

 

[Church_Militant]

If you believe the following statement… Then you don’t have faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5You wish… yet what does the very son of God tell us in John 3? 5: Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

How is CCC 1213 not perfectly in line with the very words of Christ, while your “gospel” is not? You seem to deliberately misconstrue Catholic teaching with some anti-Catholic biased attempts to mislead Catholics away from their faith. In this you are dead wrong, and as I have already shown, are preaching a different gospel from that which Christ and His apostles preached. This is verifiable not only from the New Testament but from the historic writings of the early church as well.

With all that evidence against you, it becomes very clear that you are preaching new winds of doctrines of men.:bible1:

 

[believers]

LOL I’ve read the Catechism of the Catholic Church cover to cover, Beleivers. All 2865 sections. I’ve also read the Bible cover to cover (have you?). There is no conflict. The Catechism teaches exactly what Scripture teaches: that baptism is a method through which Jesus confers grace upon us. Yes, for the forgiveness of sins, but no “insstead of Jesus’ shed blood.” It is ONLY Jesus’ shed blood which washes away our sins. Baptism is a mere method through which that grace is applied to us.

Scripture says that baptism washes away sins, Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ephesians 5:25-27; Titus 3:5-7; and that baptism is necessary for salvation, John 3:5; Gal. 3:27; 1 Peter 3:20-21.

“And Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’,” Acts 2:38

“Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name,” Acts 22:16.

“Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of the water with the word, that He might present the church to himself in splendor, without a spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish,” Ephesians 5:25-27

“…He saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life,” Titus 3:5-7

Scripture makes clear that baptism is necessary for salvation.

“Jesus answered, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’,” John 3:5

“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ,” Gal. 3:27

“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ …” 1 Peter 3:20-21.

Water baptism confers grace? Can you please tell me where that is in scripture?

I gotta go… but am interested in that one. G’nite.