We’re Headed for the Catacombs--Fr. Peter M. Stravinskas

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“The secularists will surely come gunning for us Catholics first, just based on simple logic: We present the biggest threat with our unwavering moral teachings and with our very large institutional footprint through our schools, social services, and media presence.”

Fr. Stravinskas opines on what comes next, although I don’t think the title is meant literally.

 
I love how some Catholics are quick to mention victim mentality when it comes to races and those needing public assistance, yet are quick to claim it for themselves.
 
StudentMI said:
I love how some Catholics are quick to mention victim mentality when it comes to races and those needing public assistance, yet are quick to claim it for themselves.
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… are you conflating “Catholics” with “American Republicans”?

Also, unless your position is that we should be consistent in claiming no one can be victimized, shouldn’t we err on the side of being consistent that any group can be victimized (including Catholics)?

PS I haven’t read the article, don’t click external links. So I’m just speaking generally here.
 
MNathaniel said:
… are you conflating “Catholics” with “American Republicans”?
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More the ‘we’re five seconds away from being dragged into the colosseum’ types. Mostly American Republicans but I’ve seen types from all over the world like this. Mostly Americans, however.

Perhaps it was unfair of me. Let me try to explain my position.

I don’t believe anyone should be forced to do something their conscience tells them is wrong, unless such action harms another. For instance, take a mentally ill woman who believes feeding her child would be wrong according to her conscience. In such a case I absolutely believe violating one’s conscience is right. In such a case I’m for taking the child out of her home by force.

However, to take another instance, I don’t believe Catholic hospitals should be forced to provide abortions (I know, I’ve said abortion is brought up in every thread but bear with me). I just find it wrong in such an instance because, given the variety of options an individual has, I don’t believe forcing such an institution to violate their deeply held beliefs is correct.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Yes, and if they fantasize long enough, eventually a persecution will probably crop up, and they’ll all be like “See? I told you so.”
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There’s some economists like that. Always predicting doom and gloom and when something happens they say see! I knew it and said it would happen!

It takes away from economists who are sober minded and who have actually predicted problems with the economy that bore out.
 
StudentMI said:
Perhaps it was unfair of me. Let me try to explain my position.

I don’t believe anyone should be forced to do something their conscience tells them is wrong, unless such action harms another.
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Agreed. I don’t mean to imply no one will ever have to suffer for their faith, only that people currently doing just fine shouldn’t pretend to know they’re about to be the next St. Stephen.
 
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We’ve been heading for the catacombs ever since the Garden of Eden.

Nero
Hitler

Just to name two. The Roman Empire was not pretty near the end.
 
Father Stravinskas refers to a catacomb like existence for Catholics, but what he actually predicts is this (from the article):

“What can the Church expect? All the pro-life gains of the past three years will be eviscerated. The Little Sisters of the Poor, EWTN, and a host of other faith-based groups will be back in court, doing a rear-guard action to defend their religious liberty—and ours. Not only will our Catholic schools have to be reconciled with the death of any and all parental freedom-of-choice initiatives; they must also count on massively intrusive regulations designed to make our institutions carbon copies of the godless government schools, especially as that relates to human sexuality.”
 
I’m inclined to think that, given the remarkable willingness of Catholics in general to go along with whatever secular agenda is currently being preached, actual persecution may not be necessary.

I was somewhat surprised, after the Court in Roe v Wade turned abortion, of all things, into a constitutional right, that many Catholics took a ho-hum attitude to the matter.
But I should not have been surprised. Catholics had pretty much adapted themselves to every succesive aspect of the sexual revolution.

Divorce had once been a political career killer. Ronald Reagan’s divorce nearly derailed his candidacy for governor of California. But everybody including Catholics, adapted themselves to divorce, despite Jesus’ words about the matter. Then came no fault divorce, which made meaningless every couple’s vows of lifetime fidelity. No matter the vows, the law says either party can walk away at any time for any reason.

Then contraception, which had been forbidden by every Protestant demonination since its founding and by the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, suddenly became acceptable to every denomination, while Catholicism held to the doctrine. But many Catholics defected.

Contraception served as the wedge which enabled and furthered every succeeding aspect of the sexual revolution. Cohabitation? No problem. Fornication? No big deal. Homosexual sex, adultery, threesomes, whatever. Nothing is prohibited, anyting goes. Catholics adapted to all this, saying. oh, it’s always been this way, nothing new, we can live with it. Teach kids how to have sex in kindergarten? Well, somebody’s got to do it.

Go to Mass every Sunday? Way too rigid.

Yes, we’ve been pretty adaptable. No need for persecution. Contraception remains as the enabler of sexual license, and abortion remains as its guarantor. And our laxity spills over into every Catholic doctrine handed down from the Apostles.

The secular agenda may not get much pushback from Catholics.
 
JimG said:
I was somewhat surprised, after the Court in Roe v Wade turned abortion, of all things, into a constitutional right, that many Catholics took a ho-hum attitude to the matter.
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Or many Catholics realized this fight won’t be won in the political arena, but in behind-the-scenes work to reduce abortion. The most important job being evangelization.

Your pessimism about Catholic convictions on abortion denigrates the work of those who fight it in the trenches on the front lines rather than thru politics.
 
There are Catholics who are severely persecuted these days but they live in China, the Middle East or Africa.

What Catholics are undergoing in the west does not even compare to what Catholics in other parts of the world endure.

I don’t understand all this hand wringing. Don’t give the secularists any more power than they have.
 
Ever since 1973–and before–pro-life people have been working politically through state legislatures to place restrictions on abortion. Sometimes they are successful, sometimes not. They are often opposed by Democratic proabortion lobbyists and legislators. I don’t think we should simply cede the political ground to the pro-abortion side.

At the same time, I applaud the work done by local pro-life groups which provide information and assistance to pregnant women and mothers, as well as by groups such as Rachel’s Vineyard who help those who are suffering from past abortions. Of course evangelization is needed. So is political work in a counter cultural vein.
 
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Does anyone disagree with what Fr. Stravinskas expects with respect ti the Little Sisters of the Poor and religious liberty under a Biden/Harris administration?
 
JimG said:
Ever since 1973–and before–pro-life people have been working politically through state legislatures to place restrictions on abortion. Sometimes they are successful, sometimes not. They are often opposed by Democratic proabortion lobbyists and legislators. I don’t think we should simply cede the political ground to the pro-abortion side.
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My views are probably a result of abortion being taken out of the political arena, in my country (Canada). No political party will touch the issue with a 3.28084 metre pole… so the only arena left to us is evangelization and the many possible support roles.
JimG said:
Does anyone disagree with what Fr. Stravinskas expects with respect ti the Little Sisters of the Poor and religious liberty under a Biden/Harris administration?
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Given my nationality I will defer that answer to those more familiar with US politics and the Democrat political platform, as well as the likelihood of being able to implement that platform given the realities of not having a senate majority and a 6-3 conservative SCOTUS.
 
JimG said:
Does anyone disagree with what Fr. Stravinskas expects with respect ti the Little Sisters of the Poor and religious liberty under a Biden/Harris administration?
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This is the case I’m watching with interest, along with the Catholic employer where my family gets a large chunk of our money.

To be continued…
 
Sarcelle said:
I don’t understand all this hand wringing. Don’t give the secularists any more power than they have.
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Yep…I’ve been told on these forums that a Biden presidency will lead to persecution of Catholics/Christians as seen in Canada… well I’m in Canada, and spent the first 17 years of my life as a conservative Protestant, and the last 16 or so years as an orthodox Catholic, and I’ve never felt persecuted.
 
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