We Are All Schismatics

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ziapueblo said:
My priest will definitely speak of St Gregory Palamas and his teaching during the homily and how they are linked to the Fast.
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I don’t mean him as in Saint Gregory Palamas, I meant his theology of palamism.
ziapueblo said:
My mother-in-laws husband, both southern baptist (she became Catholic when she married my father-in-law but went back to her roots after their divorce) came with us on Theophany. He was amazed by they hymns and the teaching that came from them.
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Oh I am not denying beauty of hymns neither the teaching they reveal. I am simply saying teachings of the Church go well beyond them.
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
I don’t mean him as in Saint Gregory Palamas, I meant his theology of palamism.
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You’re right. So I guess what I mean to say is the meat and potatoes, the “essential” dogmas of the faith which is found in the Ecumenical Councils, the teachings of the Fathers (much of what is found in the Troparions and Kontakions) and the 12 Great Feasts.

If one wanted to really delve in deep in Palamism you would probably need to spend some time in a monastery.

ZP
 
ziapueblo said:
I guess what I mean to say is the meat and potatoes, the “essential” dogmas of the faith which is found in the Ecumenical Councils, the teachings of the Fathers (much of what is found in the Troparions and Kontakions) and the 12 Great Feasts.
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We are in agreement about that. I love how Divine Liturgy is the best catechesis… same way Mass is the best catechesis. Because it is the highest form of prayer from which Church draws it’s strength and it’s where we find God, and so also where we are headed. Liturgies, Western or Eastern, of each and every Rite and Form, are all so beautiful.
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
… that statement makes me very sad. Is there so little in common between Eastern Catholics and Latin Catholics? … It would be like saying Latin Church has more in common with sedevacantists/anglicans/old catholics than with Eastern Catholics.
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ziapueblo said:
I would agree with this statement. The Latin Church has way more in common liturgically and spiritually with these ecclesiastical communities. What the Latin Church shares with Eastern Catholics is communion. I really don’t see what is bad about this. When people think this is a bad thing I feel it really means, “they should really be Roman Catholics with just a different Liturgy.”
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I see this differently. While we share a Tradition with many Orthodox, what we share with the Latin Church is the Eucharist - the Source and Summit of Ecclesial Life. It is unimaginable to me that the former could be seen as assuming greater significance than the latter.

But I agree that it is a shame, and think that it is a terrible win - that that sharing is truncated by schism
Or, more properly a half-schism, given that the Catholic Church welcomes properly prepared Eastern and Oriental Orthodox to commune at Catholic services.
 
ziapueblo said:
My priest will definitely speak of St Gregory Palamas and his teaching during the homily and how they are linked to the Fast.
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It is not just the Divine Liturgy, but the daily Orthros Services that lay out the entire dogma in the course of a year… We know our Faith because we practice it, not because we read about it… “Palamite Theology” is simply the theology lived out in our Christian Faith - We DO the Energy/Essence distinction on a daily basis, and have from the beginnings… It is built in to our worship - And yes, you can have a bunch of PhD’s sniffing nuances, but you will do better to live it, and IF it comes up, you will have a basis for resolution…

Nor, btw, do we have an online official Catechism purporting to answer all questions… The Mystery that IS this Faith is Entered and Lived, far more than it is taught, though it is also taught, and all according to personal felt need and God’s providential Grace…

geo
 
There is not even one Ukrainian school in Russia.
In past centuries they exterminated our inteligencia. They spam a lot of fake propaganda(including historical fables) on internet platforms just because they have means to do it.
Its not wise to name the people who love their own country as a nazzis or fascists.
People have a right to speak their language in their own country.
If you do not learn it in 20-40 years -shame on you. You are disrespectfull person.
Also, please mind that Ukrainians are not “prodigal little brothers of Russia”, who needs to get back by force and special pedagogics.
Its a dangerous and very costly lie.
We are totally different in ethnicity , in identity, in spirit.
 
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The nationalists during World War were fighting against Soviets and against Nazis.
The Soviets by the way were doing such atrocities in Lviv that Germans and even ancient Monghols would be hurrified.
The types of tortures they used , even in a most cruel tribes you could not find.

 
You see the problem is that lovers of Moskow Church its a people that did not spend enough time for study.
The truth-seeking requires time for study.
If the crowd who never in their lives been abroad only listens about gayrope,(EU), Homo-dictatorship, danger of invasion of fascists, or the danger of enslavement by the West, that crowd can believe in fables about Holy Russia.
 
With all due respect to his priesthood. He is polemical and not employing consistent, objectively clear thinking: “Whenever relations between the catholics and the Orthodox would improve, uniates would do everything to undermine the relations between the Orthodox and catholics.”

“Uniates” is a divisive term to describe Eastern Catholic particular churches. So: “Whenever relations between the catholics and the Orthodox would improve, catholics would do everything to undermine the relations between the Orthodox and catholics.” Does that make sense?

Also notice the subtle reduction of the letter ‘c’ in the word “Catholic” in the video. That should flag to a viewer that polemical and divisive sentiments — self-contradictory in this case — are at play.
 
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Neithan said:
So: “Whenever relations between the catholics and the Orthodox would improve, catholics would do everything to undermine the relations between the Orthodox and catholics.” Does that make sense?
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Possibly he might have meant that if the Pope attempted to improve relations with the Russian Orthodox Church, the Ukrainian Greek Catholics would not be eager to support this.

 
Reunion would be difficult, but not impossible. I recommend the following articles:
  1. “Orthodox & Catholic Ecclesiology: Possible Synthesis?” by Dave Armstrong
    Orthodox & Catholic Ecclesiology: Possible Synthesis? | Dave Armstrong
  2. “Sack of Constantinople (1204) & Unknown Byzantine Atrocities” by Dave Armstrong
    Sack of Constantinople (1204) & Unknown Byzantine Atrocities | Dave Armstrong
  3. “Reply to a Lapsed Catholic, now Eastern Orthodox by” James Likoudis
    Reply to an Eastern Orthodox Critic
 
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Malka said:
Reunion would be difficult
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I agree. Although I see Pope Francis attempting to collaborate with the Russian Orthodox Church, nevertheless it appears that there are Ukrainian Greek Catholics who oppose reconciliation with the Russian Orthodox Church.
 
Whenever I’ve tried to go to an orthodox church, they seem to be for people of that culture…e.g. Ukrainian church or Russian or Greek have Ukrainians, Russians and Greeks in them respectively and neer between shall mix…and I felt like an outsider… so I generally greet anyone there politely but go on my way… 🙂 Just my personal experience…
 
webmasterpdx said:
Whenever I’ve tried to go to an orthodox church, they seem to be for people of that culture…e.g. Ukrainian church or Russian or Greek have Ukrainians, Russians and Greeks in them respectively and neer between shall mix…and I felt like an outsider…
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At a small city in new England there have been and still are several Catholic Churches not really too far from one another. One has been thought of for the Irish, another for the Italians, another for the French Canadians, and still another for the Polish and Lithuanian. There is also the Maronite Church for the Lebanese (generally). You could go to any church you wanted, but they were generally populated by people of that particular culture. In another area of the USA there are Catholic Churches which have special Masses for the Spanish and other special masses for the Vietnamese.
webmasterpdx said:
I felt like an outsider… so I generally greet anyone there politely but go on my way… 🙂 Just my personal experience…
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You might try going to a Vietnamese Catholic mass. I am sure you will be welcomed, and be able to greet people politely. Everyone is friendly. But will you feel like an insider?
 
I’m not talking catholic church…but eastern orthodox. I’m from Ireland and live in the US. I’ve been to spanish, latin, irish, and even mass in France…it’s the same mass and I’ve never felt weird…but with eastern orthodox, I didn’t feel anything but weird.
 
Fr. Serge Kehler used to offer the Ukrainian Catholic Divine Liturgy in Dublin . . . in Irish!

[no, no-one would try to insist on another name for the language in his presence!]
 
I’m Greek Orthodox and am of German/English/Welsh/Spanish decent and my wife a similar mix. The majority of our parish is non-Greek. I know what you mean though many Eastern parishes, Orthodox and Catholic, can be ethnic.

ZP
 
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