We Catholics Are Dead Sure The Church Is The One Church Of Christ And That All Others Are Mistaken

[Prodigal_Son1]

Thank you Prodigal, I had not noticed. I’ll talk to you again on Monday, I got to get going got to race again this weekend.
May the precious Blood of Jesus cover us all this weekend.Amen:bowdown2:

Good luck in the race!

 

[Pater_Familias]

While it is sad if someone contemplates leaving Mother Church it does beg the question whether they were not just cafeteria catholics to begin with. I am sure we see worse behaviour at mass on a weekly basis .eg lack of reverence for the blessed sacrament etc .

Despite this our own failings as well as the failings of our brothers and sisters should not seperate us from the church but draw us ever more closer to her .

Well, everyone can have an opinion. Glad you won’t be in charge of such things. And btw…you may support OTCA all you wish of course, but do you not feel just the teensiest bit guilty of encouraging that which is ultimately harmful to your own Church? I get messages from folks and got one recently from a RC who is considering leaving the RCC because of the unbecoming meanness exhibited by people like OTCA. I counseled against such action based upon a few fanatical types here. But I repeat, are you helping the image of the RCC by this? Most of us think not, but of course, your losses appear to be our gains, so continue if you must.

 

[Hesychios]

While it is sad if someone contemplates leaving Mother Church it does beg the question whether they were not just cafeteria catholics to begin with.

While we might like to think so, there is nothing to back up that idea.

Anyway, I personally don’t think great harm is done to people who already count themselves among the Catholic population, although there will always be some contemplating leaving the church (it is, after all, a church with a large population). If they are reading here they are looking for reasons to stay and the focus should be on winning their hearts and minds again, not writing them off!

The greatest damage is to those who are contemplating coming into the church from outside for the first time. A person can spend months lurking here and becoming sweeter and sweeter on Catholicism, then BANG!.. a wake up call and seems all like an old dream. The demonstrations here have often been very immature baiting and belittling. The people who do this know next to nothing about argumentation as a skill set.

Rudeness and arrogance are just not good apologetic techniques. In fact we should expect that to be counterproductive.

Partly, we see some other Catholics trying to put the best light on this bad situation. It is like trying to put lipstick on a pig. Don’t bother even trying, rather PM the moderators and ask them to close the thread. The CAF spends a lot of money here trying to win souls, they don’t need sophomoric braggarts mucking up the works.

One way to see how counterproductive it this can be is to see how many times the thread goes off topic just to comment on it. That includes your post and mine, the bad technique has become the real topic of this thread.

What a waste of bandwidth.

 

[phoenix3212]

Out of curiosity, what are these immense problems withing the Catholic church other than a few priests who were named in abuse? If this is what you mean, it happens in all churches and denominations. What are these immense problems that you personally know of?

In a general sense, the lack of fervor among most of the laity. Perhaps I’m biased, seeing as I’m fifteen, but I notice that most of the people I’m around (in a Catholic school, no less) almost completely disregard the faith. Then there’s the fact so many people have been greatly misled about our beliefs, that the press is out to get Pope Benedict, and that so-called “progressive” ideas like abortion and gay marriage have become so widely accepted throughout the industrialized world. How many Catholics disagree with the Church on political issues? How many think birth control is OK, and that Confession isn’t necessary anymore? How many people leave Mass right after receiving Jesus? Granted, nowadays there exists very little corruption in the Church hierarchy, but on the whole we face many problems.

 

[Christalone]

Wrong, very wrong.

If what you say above is true then why are there thousands of different protestant denominations with different docrines and beliefs? Does God confuse people about his message?

Maybe for the same reason we left the catholic church, and how about some scripitural proof as to why I am wrong?!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

People mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one true church. **The true church is **not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.

What Churches do you consider as not Christians?

Where did the Apostles send letters to when they wrote the Churches?

Do you have any documentation to show that Church was no more than a body of believers prior to the 1500s?

 

[Hesychios]

In a general sense, the lack of fervor among most of the laity. Perhaps I’m biased, seeing as I’m fifteen, but I notice that most of the people I’m around (in a Catholic school, no less) almost completely disregard the faith. Then there’s the fact so many people have been greatly misled about our beliefs, that the press is out to get Pope Benedict, and that so-called “progressive” ideas like abortion and gay marriage have become so widely accepted throughout the industrialized world. How many Catholics disagree with the Church on political issues? How many think birth control is OK, and that Confession isn’t necessary anymore? How many people leave Mass right after receiving Jesus? Granted, nowadays there exists very little corruption in the Church hierarchy, but on the whole we face many problems.

Your honest appraisal is appreciated.

There is no sense in whitewashing it, my observations agree with yours, although I see that it has gotten worse since I was a young man like you.

Facing these facts honestly is the only way to deal with it.

I do believe there are ways to turn this around and the prospects are good, but publicly denying the state of affairs will only result in a loss of credibility.

BTW, are you actually from Phoenix, or does that name have a deeper significance to you? I would recommend that you visit Saint Stephen’s Pro-Cathedral in Phoenix, Arizona, if you are able. Expect to be impressed.
http://www.ststephenbyzantine.org/images/STpair2CLR.gif

 

[bacalzoLDS]

Why can’t other churches have truth in them but be corrupted, rather than saying the entire ‘religion’ is completely false? I have investigated other religions and they all have truth. It is more Christlike to address the truths rather then bash the any church that isn’t Catholic. For one, that certainly won’t gain the Catholics more Converts by bad-mouthing one’s current non-Catholic religion.

Just a thought.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Why can’t other churches have truth in them but be corrupted, rather than saying the entire ‘religion’ is completely false? I have investigated other religions and they all have truth. It is more Christlike to address the truths rather then bash the any church that isn’t Catholic. For one, that certainly won’t gain the Catholics more Converts by bad-mouthing one’s current non-Catholic religion.

Just a thought.

Hello …LDS,

Welcome to the forums.

I could tell you were new here by reading your posts. It seems most LDS come here and tell us that the Catholic Church is corrupt, so corrupt it lost all authority in, what they call “a great apostasy”. Because of this great apostasy, the LDS Church restored Christ’s Church.

While your posts mentions gaining converts, Catholics don’t come here seeking converts. Most LDS on the other hand, even though they will not admit it, are here to proseltyze Catholics to the LDS Church.

Simply telling a Catholic that the Catholic Church is corrupt is enough for most Catholics to take the gloves off and it’s on, like donkey kong. That is, we’re knowledgable enough to ask some very tough questions of LDS, some questions that seem to infuriate some of them. That’s unfortunate, but that’s the way it is.

All Churches do not have total, or the fulness of, truth. That’s evident by the disagreement of doctrines by the many Churches in the world today. Some Protestants refer to the agreements as “essentials”. The problem is, the Bible does not tell us of a difference. I believe those things all Churches agree on, is from the Holy Spirit. Those thing they do not agree on, the non-essentials, cannot be from the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit cannot lie, nor can it tell contradicting truths to different Churches.

That brings us to authority. There was only Catholic Churches until the 1500s, when the Protestant reformation took place. When the Protestant reformation took place, they came from the Catholic Church with the teachings they have. Then Protestants split from Protestants and took what they have. This process has continued until present day, with splits still occurring, and newer and newer Churches have less than what was received from the Catholic Church during the reformation. That is a dilution of the truth. Since those truths each Church has came from the Catholic Church, we believe the Catholic Church to have the fulness of truth.

Mormons have a tough time here because Catholics and Protestants agree, we do not accept the Book of Mormon as scriptures. We also do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. We do not know of any secret ceremonies taught in scriptures. etc. etc.

I hope this explanation has helped you understand how these forums progress as they do.

 

[totallylost]

Hello …LDS,

Welcome to the forums.

I could tell you were new here by reading your posts. It seems most LDS come here and tell us that the Catholic Church is corrupt, so corrupt it lost all authority in, what they call “a great apostasy”. Because of this great apostasy, the LDS Church restored Christ’s Church.

While your posts mentions gaining converts, Catholics don’t come here seeking converts. Most LDS on the other hand, even though they will not admit it, are here to proseltyze Catholics to the LDS Church.

Simply telling a Catholic that the Catholic Church is corrupt is enough for most Catholics to take the gloves off and it’s on, like donkey kong. That is, we’re knowledgable enough to ask some very tough questions of LDS, some questions that seem to infuriate some of them. That’s unfortunate, but that’s the way it is.

All Churches do not have total, or the fulness of, truth. That’s evident by the disagreement of doctrines by the many Churches in the world today. Some Protestants refer to the agreements as “essentials”. The problem is, the Bible does not tell us of a difference. I believe those things all Churches agree on, is from the Holy Spirit. Those thing they do not agree on, the non-essentials, cannot be from the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit cannot lie, nor can it tell contradicting truths to different Churches.

That brings us to authority. There was only Catholic Churches until the 1500s, when the Protestant reformation took place. When the Protestant reformation took place, they came from the Catholic Church with the teachings they have. Then Protestants split from Protestants and took what they have. This process has continued until present day, with splits still occurring, and newer and newer Churches have less than what was received from the Catholic Church during the reformation. That is a dilution of the truth. Since those truths each Church has came from the Catholic Church, we believe the Catholic Church to have the fulness of truth.

Mormons have a tough time here because Catholics and Protestants agree, we do not accept the Book of Mormon as scriptures. We also do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. We do not know of any secret ceremonies taught in scriptures. etc. etc.

I hope this explanation has helped you understand how these forums progress as they do.

In addition to your post, to those who said the original Church are corrupted, the only Church that existed during 33AD, 100AD, 200AD, 300AD, (Protestant says the Church was corrupted around this time but there was no other Churches available) 400AD, 500AD, 600AD, 700AD, 800AD, 900AD, 1000AD, 1100AD (This time the Orthodox Church was born), 1200AD, 1300AD, 1400AD, (These were the time where there was no Protestant Church,

Matthew 16:18 tells us that Jesus said “I will build my Church and the powers of hell shall not triumph over it”, if the Church were ever corrupted in those times, then we can conclude the Gospel of Matthew have errors. Thus the Gospel of Matthew must be removed from New Testament.

I hope one sees my point.

 

[Hesychios]

In addition to your post, to those who said the original Church are corrupted, the only Church that existed during 33AD, 100AD, 200AD, 300AD, (Protestant says the Church was corrupted around this time but there was no other Churches available) 400AD, 500AD, 600AD, 700AD, 800AD, 900AD, 1000AD, 1100AD (This time the Orthodox Church was born), 1200AD, 1300AD, 1400AD, (These were the time where there was no Protestant Church,

Matthew 16:18 tells us that Jesus said “I will build my Church and the powers of hell shall not triumph over it”, if the Church were ever corrupted in those times, then we can conclude the Gospel of Matthew have errors. Thus the Gospel of Matthew must be removed from New Testament.

I hope one sees my point.

Up until you said this:
(This time the Orthodox Church was born)

You got the date wrong. It was 33AD at Pentecost.

And don’t let anyone tell you differently.

 

[totallylost]

Up until you said this:
(This time the Orthodox Church was born)

You got the date wrong. It was 33AD at Pentecost.

And don’t let anyone tell you differently.

hmm forgive me for getting wrong information. yeah, the Orthodox has apostolic succession

 

[Louie1983]

Maybe for the same reason we left the catholic church, and how about some scripitural proof as to why I am wrong?!

Scriptural proof? My pleasure.

• Jesus says to Peter you are the rock on which i will build my church, the gates of hell will not prevail aginst it. He is giving peter authority of his church on earth, this has been passed down to every pope since peter!
• He gave the authority to forgive sin to the apostles (not everyone), this authority has been passed down for 2000 years through the apostolic succession of the church. Something protestant denominations cannot show.
• Jesus says that he will be with his church until the end of time, which means his church (the catholic church) cannot teach error. The protestant reformation did not come along untill 1500 years later when they broke from the church and changed certain church teachings! 1500 years of teachings and authority cannot be wrong!

 

[distracted]

Thankyou.

I’ll say i’m a practising catholic and not a devout one, I’d be an insult to the real devout catholics…

Keep up the good fight, remember what St oaul said “teach the faith, in season and out!”

yeah, easier said than done sometimes…

so, just curious, but why do you say you are not devout?
what is your definition of devout?

someone who practically lives in the Church??

I would, if the priest let me… but he hates me…

probably because i am “devout”

 

[distracted]

**“We Catholics Are Dead Sure The Church Is The One Church Of Christ And That All Others Are Mistaken” **

Yes, but…it all comes down to Christ. “Do you believe in what Jesus said, did and represents?” That’s the ultimate question. It isn’t, “Do you believe in the Church?” It isn’t, “Do you believe in the Bible?” It’s simply, “Do you believe in Jesus?” To me, *that’s *the bottom line.

***it seems obvious that if someone loves Jesus, he will love his Church… ***

 

[distracted]

What’s with the debate over “is it in the Bible.” Catholicism proceeds from sacred Scripture and Tradition. So there’s tons of stuff “not in the Bible” yet covered by Sacred Tradition. Am I missing something there?

maybe you are missing the fact that most protestants won’t accept anything unless its found in the Bible… so i have to tell them that much of waht they believe is not there… explicity or even sometimes implicitly… Actually a whole lot of important stuff is not there…

 

[distracted]

Why can’t other churches have truth in them but be corrupted, rather than saying the entire ‘religion’ is completely false? I have investigated other religions and they all have truth. It is more Christlike to address the truths rather then bash the any church that isn’t Catholic. For one, that certainly won’t gain the Catholics more Converts by bad-mouthing one’s current non-Catholic religion.

Just a thought.

define “bashing”

define “Christlike”

define “badmouthing”

I get tired of this name calling… it says nothing… and causes ill feelings… between people.

 

[Bill_Pick]

The Roman Catholic Church is officially known as Catholic Church. The name “Roman” is given because during ancient time, the Church is based in Rome. There’s also Eastern Catholic Church, Japanese Catholic Church, but ALL share the same doctrine and believe and same authority. The only differences is the Rite.

How would Catholic Church left Lutheran Church when the Lutheran Church is only found by Martin Luther 500 years ago? How is that logic? Isn’t Martin Luther was taught as a Catholic, and he disagreed with the Catholic doctrines when he is able to read the Bible, interpret it as his own, and started his own Church?

Was Martin Luthrer trying to get back to the Cathloic Church right B4 his death ,Maybe some one can answer

 

[distracted]

This was not a mandate to take over the church and boss everyone around, it was a charge given to him by Christ to straighten up and fly right.

whatever…

As to Purgatory:

maccabees 12:44

1 cor 3:13

st mt 18:23 (torture until the last of the debt is paid)

Rev 21:27 (no impure thing allowed into Heaven)

st Mt 12:32 (forgivness in the age to come)

etc…

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Was Martin Luthrer trying to get back to the Cathloic Church right B4 his death ,Maybe some one can answer

It’s my understanding, and someone will surely correct me, but I believe that Martin Luther was preparing his defense to the charges leveled at him by the Church when he was excommunicated. I don’t know if he tried to continue to submit his responses before he died or not. But he never volunteerily left the church as I understand it. He was thrown out.