We complain too much about the modern apostasy

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mathematoons

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One theme I see popping up over and over on this forum essentially boils down to this: “Modern culture is so evil. It’s taken over the world and is trying to destroy all that we Catholics hold dear. Even most so-called ‘Catholics’ have turned their backs on God and sold themselves to modern culture for a bowl of soup. This is awful! We want the old ways back!”

I’ve been guilty of this myself, because this complaint has its facts right. However, it misses the point entirely. Here are some things we need to think about:
  1. Catholic culture as we knew it is dead. It is not coming back; even if our culture someday comes back to God, it will take a long time and a lot of suffering. There is nothing we can do but thank God for the chance to suffer for Him.
  2. God could give us everything we want if it were good for us. Since He has not given us the opportunity to live in a Catholic culture, it follows that it would not be good for us. Jesus says persecution is good for us (Matthew 5:10-12). Besides, our efforts to change the culture will fail unless God is behind them.
  3. Everything that happens is God’s will (Sirach 11:14). It is better to humbly submit to God’s will than to bring back Catholic culture even if you can succeed.
  4. By fretting about the state of the world, we risk falling into sin. “What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul?” (Matthew 16:26.)
  5. It is only by God’s mercy that we were not struck dead and sent to Hell in the very act of our first mortal sins. How can we possibly dare to complain about anything?
In short: we shouldn’t lament the death of Catholic culture, but rejoice that God’s will is being accomplished. Who knows? Maybe if you lived in a Catholic culture, you would have lost your soul!
 
Please explain “Catholic Culture” I do not recall hearing the term Catholic Culture.
I doubt that it refers to the Irish neighborhood and the German neighborhood of my childhood. Both locations had strong very devoted Catholics.

I also do not recall what I had for breakfast four days ago.
:rotfl:
 
Thank you for this. Each generation faces different challenges, but overcomes them in the same way: through prayer, penance and the sacraments.
 
mathematoons said:
One theme I see popping up over and over on this forum essentially boils down to this: “Modern culture is so evil. It’s taken over the world and is trying to destroy all that we Catholics hold dear. Even most so-called ‘Catholics’ have turned their backs on God and sold themselves to modern culture for a bowl of soup. This is awful! We want the old ways back!”

I’ve been guilty of this myself, because this complaint has its facts right. However, it misses the point entirely. Here are some things we need to think about:
  1. Catholic culture as we knew it is dead. It is not coming back; even if our culture someday comes back to God, it will take a long time and a lot of suffering. There is nothing we can do but thank God for the chance to suffer for Him.
  2. God could give us everything we want if it were good for us. Since He has not given us the opportunity to live in a Catholic culture, it follows that it would not be good for us. Jesus says persecution is good for us (Matthew 5:10-12). Besides, our efforts to change the culture will fail unless God is behind them.
  3. Everything that happens is God’s will (Sirach 11:14). It is better to humbly submit to God’s will than to bring back Catholic culture even if you can succeed.
  4. By fretting about the state of the world, we risk falling into sin. “What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul?” (Matthew 16:26.)
  5. It is only by God’s mercy that we were not struck dead and sent to Hell in the very act of our first mortal sins. How can we possibly dare to complain about anything?
In short: we shouldn’t lament the death of Catholic culture, but rejoice that God’s will is being accomplished. Who knows? Maybe if you lived in a Catholic culture, you would have lost your soul!
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Well, yes and no. “Catholic culture” could describe any number of times and places over the last 2000 years. A Catholic village in India in the year 900 AD looks very different in terms of culture than an Italian town in 1900. But both are Catholic. Catholicism transcends and embraces a pretty wide variety of cultural practices.

But I agree that we should have no time for people who pine for the return of the 1950s. For better or for worse, Leave It to Beaver is not coming back. Instead of complaining about it, take that energy and try to develop the resilience to live without bitterness in a culture that is sometimes hostile to your faith.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
Well, yes and no. “Catholic culture” could describe any number of times and places over the last 2000 years. A Catholic village in India in the year 900 AD looks very different in terms of culture than an Italian town in 1900. But both are Catholic. Catholicism transcends and embraces a pretty wide variety of cultural practices.

But I agree that we should have no time for people who pine for the return of the 1950s. For better or for worse, Leave It to Beaver is not coming back. Instead of complaining about it, take that energy and try to develop the resilience to live without bitterness in a culture that is sometimes hostile to your faith.
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Regarding post 2. Are you implying that Catholicism culture is one thing in India and something else in the 1950’s, and something else which can be damaged in modern times?

What happened to the One, Holy, Catholic, and ***Apostolic ***Church?
 
Rumors of the death of Catholic culture have been greatly exaggerated.
 
grannymh said:
Regarding post 2. Are you implying that Catholicism culture is one thing in India and something else in the 1950’s, and something else which can be damaged in modern times?

What happened to the One, Holy, Catholic, and ***Apostolic ***Church?
Click to expand...
I think we’re confusing beliefs and dogma with culture. Beliefs and dogma are the same across time and space. Certain cultural practices can vary.
 
mathematoons said:
One theme I see popping up over and over on this forum essentially boils down to this: “Modern culture is so evil. It’s taken over the world and is trying to destroy all that we Catholics hold dear. Even most so-called ‘Catholics’ have turned their backs on God and sold themselves to modern culture for a bowl of soup. This is awful! We want the old ways back!”

I’ve been guilty of this myself, because this complaint has its facts right. However, it misses the point entirely. Here are some things we need to think about:
  1. Catholic culture as we knew it is dead. It is not coming back; even if our culture someday comes back to God, it will take a long time and a lot of suffering. There is nothing we can do but thank God for the chance to suffer for Him.
  2. God could give us everything we want if it were good for us. Since He has not given us the opportunity to live in a Catholic culture, it follows that it would not be good for us. Jesus says persecution is good for us (Matthew 5:10-12). Besides, our efforts to change the culture will fail unless God is behind them.
  3. Everything that happens is God’s will (Sirach 11:14). It is better to humbly submit to God’s will than to bring back Catholic culture even if you can succeed.
  4. By fretting about the state of the world, we risk falling into sin. “What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul?” (Matthew 16:26.)
  5. It is only by God’s mercy that we were not struck dead and sent to Hell in the very act of our first mortal sins. How can we possibly dare to complain about anything?
In short: we shouldn’t lament the death of Catholic culture, but rejoice that God’s will is being accomplished. Who knows? Maybe if you lived in a Catholic culture, you would have lost your soul!
Click to expand...
Very good points for us to think about! 👍

… plus, we have so many advantages today. We need to use what we have of Catholic culture to the very best that we can. Things can change for the better - more quickly than we realize.
 
mathematoons said:
One theme I see popping up over and over on this forum essentially boils down to this: “Modern culture is so evil. It’s taken over the world and is trying to destroy all that we Catholics hold dear. Even most so-called ‘Catholics’ have turned their backs on God and sold themselves to modern culture for a bowl of soup. This is awful! We want the old ways back!”

I’ve been guilty of this myself, because this complaint has its facts right. However, it misses the point entirely. Here are some things we need to think about:
  1. Catholic culture as we knew it is dead. It is not coming back; even if our culture someday comes back to God, it will take a long time and a lot of suffering. There is nothing we can do but thank God for the chance to suffer for Him.
  2. God could give us everything we want if it were good for us. Since He has not given us the opportunity to live in a Catholic culture, it follows that it would not be good for us. Jesus says persecution is good for us (Matthew 5:10-12). Besides, our efforts to change the culture will fail unless God is behind them.
  3. Everything that happens is God’s will (Sirach 11:14). It is better to humbly submit to God’s will than to bring back Catholic culture even if you can succeed.
  4. By fretting about the state of the world, we risk falling into sin. “What doth it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul?” (Matthew 16:26.)
  5. It is only by God’s mercy that we were not struck dead and sent to Hell in the very act of our first mortal sins. How can we possibly dare to complain about anything?
In short: we shouldn’t lament the death of Catholic culture, but rejoice that God’s will is being accomplished. Who knows? Maybe if you lived in a Catholic culture, you would have lost your soul!
Click to expand...
In reply to item 1) fashions do change but Catholic teaching remains forever.
Items 2 and 3) are nonsensical statements as it would mean we should never do anything to change things.
Item 4)If we were not concerned we would do nothing, we ought to be concerned.
Item 5) makes no sense at all .
 
Our Catholicity was lost one soul at a time, and through our efforts and prayer, it will recover one soul at a time. A brick wall is not set in place en bloc, but brick by brick. What we have truly lost is our patience.
 
  1. Catholic Culture is NOT dead. We have a BILLION Catholics worldwide. Some 20% of Americans are Catholic. Could each of us live our Catholic Faith more faithfully? Yes, of course. Have some walked away? Yes, of course. Have some come into the Church? Yes, of course. Name me one religion or social justice organization that has done, and IS doing, more than the Catholic Church to help the impoverished today and the past 2,000 years.
  2. God certainly has given us the opportunity to live in a Catholic Culture – at least in the Western world. The Church is growing rapidly in Africa. The thing is, we have to **ACT **on the opportunity. Others in history suffered so much to give us the opportunity to live a Catholic Culture. Each of us must use our Free Will to maintain and expand the Catholic approach and way of life. Each of us has the ability to LOVE better. Exercise your Free Will and LOVE God and others as God has commanded us to do.
  3. It is God’s Will that we obey His Commandments. But He gave us Free Will because LOVE must be freely given or it is simply NOT love. We are to humbly submit to God’s Will – Love God and Love others. If we are called to suffer, as has been seen many times in History, we are STILL called to Love as best we can and beg mercy for our personal shortcomings and sin.
  4. I do fret about the state of the world. I am here to do God’s Will, NOT my will. I am NOT trying to gain the whole world – selfishness – but rather trying to exercise the LOVE I can to improve the state of the world, one conversation at a time. I take the opportunities I can to defend the Catholic Culture and to explain it as best I can in ways that may motivate others to stay the course of coming closer to Christ.
  5. Agree 100%. Our God is a Just God. Our God is also the God of Love and the God of Mercy. We are called to be HUMBLE. Humble enough to admit our sins. Humble enough to confess them properly. Humble enough to renew our personal efforts to Love God and others as we should. Humble enough to show Mercy to those who have wronged us. Humble enough to constantly search out better understanding of our proper relationship with God and others. Humble enough to share our positive thoughts and keep the Catholic Culture alive and thriving as best we can.
 
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