We did not ask for this fight, but we will not run from it. - Cardinal Dolan

[sedonaman]

A hospital can make a great hotel, business conference center, or dorm if it is near a city school. …

If this administration had its way, and it eventually will, they would convert them all into houses of prostitution to turn the populace into sex addicts, especially if it were located near a city school.

Throwing Christians to the lions did not work in the past.

It worked long enough; who wants to be the first thrown into the den?

 

[SaintPatrick333]

********** Why should the average non-theist voter have to suffer because a preferred hospital or school is closed?

Because when the nation is acting contrary to Christ we all suffer

 

[sedonaman]

I haven’t thought about this question enough, but I worry about the morality of simply closing shop and going home. To decide to discontinue providing of a compassionate service simply because the government forces you to comply with some illegal law is not a good long term solution. Civil disobediance is a better one. Catholic insurers can refuse to provide this coverage. When the government levies the penalty for not providing the coverage, refuse to pay it. Force the government to shut your Catholic hospital down, by sending in police if they have to. Oppose them non-violently at every turn. Continue practicing your vocation until they put you in jail…

You know what? You just might have something here. How long could they keep priests in jail before the government took on the appearance of communist ? answers.com/topic/j-zsef-mindszenty

 

[grannymh]

If this administration had its way, and it eventually will, they would convert them all into houses of prostitution to turn the populace into sex addicts, especially if it were located near a city school.

It worked long enough; who wants to be the first thrown into the den?

The Bishops.

 

[PaulinVA]

That’s right, it will. By the time it does and they realize it, someone else of the opposition party will be in power and get all the blame.

I correspond with a Jewish friend every day, and I sent him this homily youtu.be/ltTd81XpDnc . He vigorously agreed with it and forwarded it to all his other friends with the comment, “Perhaps this is a reason for all to be ‘Catholics’ in spirit.”

Love it!

 

[3DOCTORS]

I haven’t thought about this question enough, but I worry about the morality of simply closing shop and going home. To decide to discontinue providing of a compassionate service simply because the government forces you to comply with some illegal law is not a good long term solution. Civil disobediance is a better one. Catholic insurers can refuse to provide this coverage. When the government levies the penalty for not providing the coverage, refuse to pay it. Force the government to shut your Catholic hospital down, by sending in police if they have to. Oppose them non-violently at every turn. Continue practicing your vocation until they put you in jail.

Again, I haven’t thought it through well, but it looks like it may become more than just an interesting hypothetical exercise.

Force their hand, in other words.

Wonder if this whole mess could’ve been avoided if many orders of nuns hadn’t been swayed badly by radical feminism in the 1960s and 70s. If those nuns who left the convent, or stayed but dissented from much of Church teaching, were at their posts and faithful to Mother Church as they used to be, this administration wouldn’t be able to say that the Catholic hospitals and schools didn’t employ enough religious. Possibly the same could be said of some priests, I don’t know as much in this area to be sure (here I’m thinking of those who teach at universities and promote dissent). At the very least, many Catholic institutions have been watering down their Catholic identity for some time. Many horses have left the barn.

 

[tgauchsin]

I haven’t thought about this question enough, but I worry about the morality of simply closing shop and going home. To decide to discontinue providing of a compassionate service simply because the government forces you to comply with some illegal law is not a good long term solution. Civil disobediance is a better one. Catholic insurers can refuse to provide this coverage. When the government levies the penalty for not providing the coverage, refuse to pay it. Force the government to shut your Catholic hospital down, by sending in police if they have to. Oppose them non-violently at every turn. Continue practicing your vocation until they put you in jail.

Again, I haven’t thought it through well, but it looks like it may become more than just an interesting hypothetical exercise.

You may have something here. I like this.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

When Massachusetts and Illinois tried to force Catholic adoption charities to provide children to homosexual couples, the states found that the bishops weren’t bluffing.when they closed them down.

Lets not forget that the Bishops did not close down Catholic Charities adoption agencies in protest of the State’s adoption laws. They were closed because private donations were insufficient to make up for the loss of State funding. So the Church and the State have each other over the same barrel.

 

[saraih]

If those nuns who left the convent, or stayed but dissented from much of Church teaching, were at their posts and faithful to Mother Church as they used to be, this administration wouldn’t be able to say that the Catholic hospitals and schools didn’t employ enough religious

It was my understanding that nuns (I think you probably mean Sisters) were never really supposed to be working in middle class area hospitals and schools. Some new religious are forming with that type of service in mind but getting back to their roots (as instructed!) meant the withdrawal of this function for most sisters anyway. Nothing whatsoever to do with ‘the 70s’ or ‘feminism’. Catholic schools and hospitals were never supposed to be full of religious, for the most part.

 

[saraih]

Lets not forget that the Bishops did not close down Catholic Charities adoption agencies in protest of the State’s adoption laws. They were closed because private donations were insufficient to make up for the loss of State funding. So the Church and the State have each other over the same barrel.

I didn’t know this. So much for all the arguments saying that churches and individuals can fully occupy the role the government currently plays?

I’d honestly thought they had to shut because the new rules said they were incompatible with the law, not that they could have carried on with their own money if they’d wanted to.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

I didn’t know this. So much for all the arguments saying that churches and individuals can fully occupy the role the government currently plays?

I’d honestly thought they had to shut because the new rules said they were incompatible with the law, not that they could have carried on with their own money if they’d wanted to.

Catholic Charities was/is primarily funded by the State to the tune of $2.9 billion per year. Only 3% of its annual revenue comes from private donations and therein lies the problem. The State did not shut down their facilities; merely terminated their funding when they refused to comply with the law. They were unable to stem the shortfall with private donations and were forced to close due to lack of funding.

 

[saraih]

I see, thank you for the background. It seems people really mean that social welfare ought to be funded by taxes but administered by churches.

This happens a lot in the UK with third sector funding, and often it is more efficient. There are problems too of course.

 

[incense]

Civil disobediance is a better one. Catholic insurers can refuse to provide this coverage. When the government levies the penalty for not providing the coverage, refuse to pay it. Force the government to shut your Catholic hospital down, by sending in police if they have to. Oppose them non-violently at every turn. Continue practicing your vocation until they put you in jail…

Another thing is to fire all non-Catholic employees. And refuse any non-Catholic patients/students. And then make sure there’s a daily sermon to “inculcate” the faith. That will get the public’s attention. Make the government explain why they are forcing the hospitals and colleges to discriminate. Make the government explain why they made it illegal for Catholics to offer charity.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Another thing is to fire all non-Catholic employees. And refuse any non-Catholic patients/students. And then make sure there’s a daily sermon to “inculcate” the faith. That will get the public’s attention. Make the government explain why they are forcing the hospitals and colleges to discriminate. Make the government explain why they made it illegal for Catholics to offer charity.

The government doesn’t care, in fact its intent is to drive Catholic and ultimately all religious-based care out of existence. Once all those pesky moral and ethical institutions are out of the way the government can proceed with infanticide and euthanasia virtually uncontested. If you think they will be met with resistance from religions think again, the government is well on the way to driving religion underground, it has already effectively marginalized religion.

 

[grannymh]

The government doesn’t care, in fact its intent is to drive Catholic and ultimately all religious-based care out of existence. Once all those pesky moral and ethical institutions are out of the way the government can proceed with infanticide and euthanasia virtually uncontested. If you think they will be met with resistance from religions think again, the government is well on the way to driving religion underground, it has already effectively marginalized religion.

I agree that certain government employees do not care.

But what about the government employees who do care?

 

[sedonaman]

Lets not forget that the Bishops did not close down Catholic Charities adoption agencies in protest of the State’s adoption laws. They were closed because private donations were insufficient to make up for the loss of State funding. So the Church and the State have each other over the same barrel.

This is an attempt to shift the blame from the government to private donors. When a large chunk of change is removed from their available funds, of course it’s not going to be made up any time soon.

 

[MJE]

When Bob Aliano writes ‘government doesn’t care’ I am sure he is referring to gov’t leadership/policy makers; specifically the anti-Judeo-Christian Democrats.

 

[sedonaman]

I see, thank you for the background. It seems people really mean that social welfare ought to be funded by taxes but administered by churches.
…

This statement carries a connotation that the public funding is a gift to the churches, much like private donations are. However, the churches are under contract with the government to provide services. The funds therefore are payment for services rendered. The government is trying to change the scope of the contract, and the churches are refusing to accept the expanded scope. The churches are non-profit organizations and are getting a black eye for refusing. Who is the real bad guy here?

 

[richard_wang]

Here are some excerpt from a March 2, 2012 letter written to all bishops from Cardinal Dolan, President of the USCCB regarding the HHS mandate.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/upload/Dolan-to-all-bishops-HHS.pdf

…]

Since January 20, when the final, restrictive HHS Rule was first announced, we have become certain of two things: religious freedom is under attack, and we will not cease our struggle to protect it. We recall the words of our Holy Father Benedict XVI to our brother bishops on their recent ad limina visit: “Of particular concern are certain attempts being made to limit that most cherished of American freedoms, the freedom of religion.” Bishop Stephen Blaire and Bishop William Lori, with so many others, have admirably kept us focused on this one priority of protecting religious freedom. We have made it clear in no uncertain terms to the government that we are not at peace with its invasive attempt to curtail the religious freedom we cherish as Catholics and Americans. We did not ask for this fight, but we will not run from it. [emphasis added]

…]

Of course, we maintained from the start that this is not a “Catholic” fight alone. I like to quote as often as possible a nurse who emailed me, “I’m not so much mad about all this as a Catholic, but as an American.” And as we recall, a Baptist minister, Governor Mike Huckabee, observed, “In this matter, we’re all Catholics.” No doubt you have heard numerous statements just like these. We are grateful to know so many of our fellow Americans, especially our friends in the ecumenical and interreligious dialogue, stand together in this important moment in our country. They know that this is not just about sterilization, abortifacients, and chemical contraception. It’s about religious freedom, the sacred right of any Church to define its own teaching and ministry.

…]

At a recent meeting between staff of the bishops’ conference and the White House staff, our staff members asked directly whether the broader concerns of religious freedom—that is, revisiting the straight-jacketing mandates, or broadening the maligned exemption—are all off the table. They were informed that they are. So much for “working out the wrinkles.” Instead, they advised the bishops’ conference that we should listen to the “enlightened” voices of accommodation, such as the recent, hardly surprising yet terribly unfortunate editorial in “America” (note:magazine published by the American Jesuits). The White House seems to think we bishops simply do not know or understand Catholic teaching and so, taking a cue from its own definition of religious freedom, now has nominated its own handpicked official Catholic teachers. [emphasis and note added]

…]

Brothers, we know so very well that religious freedom is our heritage, our legacy and our firm belief, both as loyal Catholics and Americans. There have been many threats to religious freedom over the decades and years, but these often came from without. This one sadly comes from within. As our ancestors did with previous threats, we will tirelessly defend the timeless and enduring truth of religious freedom.

 

[richard_wang]

My personal opinion, this letter does not resemble an invitation for further discussion but reads more like a declaration of war.

God bless and protect our bishops. May they remember that the red they wear represents the blood of the martyrs. And may they and all Christians remember that we may be called to give up everything for God.