"We don't believe that anymore"

[netmilsmom]

Um… no, the CHURCH never went through Kumbyah years… the PEOPLE that didn’t want to be obedient to the Magesterium had kumbyah years and now their children are realizing the hypocrisy and misunderstanding of those parents teachings that they’re discovering the REAL truth in the Church on their own and teaching their children THAT…

Amen to that!

BTW, my six year old says that the praying smilie in your signature is saying the Hail Mary. Did you know that?

 

[curious1989]

Digressing just a bit, it’s always interesting to hear how progressives try to promote “modern” church design. This quote is taken from a website crediting itself for the unique design of several suburban California parishes:

“The congregation seating virtually surrounds the altar, in a “theatre-in-the-round” arrangement according to post-Vatican II requirements. All members of the congregation have clear site lines to the altar and thereby develop a connectedness to one another and the celebrant.”

See: agaarchitects.com/pages/worship/religious/st_eliz_chrch.html

Honestly now, where in the Vatican II documents does it REQUIRE that churches be designed as “theaters in the round?” This is simply a bald-faced lie, there is no other way to put it. Yet pastors and bishops often support these designs. Again, it goes along with the notion that Vatican II required us to throw out anything old. Anything linked to the past- because we don’t believe in those things anymore. I have been to this parish and can say that it very closely resembles what you might envision a “community center” to look like. There is nothing wrong with community centers- they serve a social purpose that is important. But why must our Catholic churches resemble them?

Getting back to the main topic, we’re again faced with the sad fact that Catholics don’t know what they believe any longer. The churches are constructed more for socialization rather than worship. Will we reach the point that we no longer believe in real presence? If singing, guitars, bongo drums, clapping all continue right through the consecration, as they do in many parishes, it seems to me that perhaps we have already reached that point.

The problem does not lie with the new Mass, nor the vernacular, nor anything else so simplistically aesthetic. I’m truly convinced that the teaching of Catholic doctrine has been dumbed down to seem palatable to the masses (especially the protestant masses). Protestants don’t believe in real presence, they don’t believe in the authority of the Pope, they don’t believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, nor devotion to her. They don’t believe in confession, mortal sin, purgatory, or hell. Doesn’t it say something when all of these “hot topics” seem to be either swept under the carpet or, sometimes, out and out refuted by Catholics, including members of the church’s own clergy? All these beliefs still exist in the official catechism of the Church. We just don’t like to talk about them. Now we have a whole generation of people that have never learned them and regard Vatican II as a license to cast off any unpleasant “rituals” that they would rather not have to deal with. The Mass has been a victim of this philosophy. Mass is supposed to be for God, not for us. We are humbly requesting forgiveness of our sins by offering up a sacrifice for one puny hour on Sundays. Why must even that small slice of time be directed at us instead of God?

But if these teachings were to be brought back to the forefront, wouldn’t we see a return to sacredness along with them? Churches would be constructed for worship, rather than socialization. Reverence would return to the Mass, regardless of the language- it’s the reverence that’s been truly lost. In the end, the Church is responsible for saving souls. That’s its main function. It must do what it needs to, regardless of what may be popular at the time. Perhaps the next few generations will be able to defeat the incredible odds against them and return to the basics.

 

[dumspirospero]

Good post

Digressing just a bit, it’s always interesting to hear how progressives try to promote “modern” church design. This quote is taken from a website crediting itself for the unique design of several suburban California parishes:

“The congregation seating virtually surrounds the altar, in a “theatre-in-the-round” arrangement according to post-Vatican II requirements. All members of the congregation have clear site lines to the altar and thereby develop a connectedness to one another and the celebrant.”

See: agaarchitects.com/pages/worship/religious/st_eliz_chrch.html

Honestly now, where in the Vatican II documents does it REQUIRE that churches be designed as “theaters in the round?” This is simply a bald-faced lie, there is no other way to put it. Yet pastors and bishops often support these designs. Again, it goes along with the notion that Vatican II required us to throw out anything old. Anything linked to the past- because we don’t believe in those things anymore. I have been to this parish and can say that it very closely resembles what you might envision a “community center” to look like. There is nothing wrong with community centers- they serve a social purpose that is important. But why must our Catholic churches resemble them?

Getting back to the main topic, we’re again faced with the sad fact that Catholics don’t know what they believe any longer. The churches are constructed more for socialization rather than worship. Will we reach the point that we no longer believe in real presence? If singing, guitars, bongo drums, clapping all continue right through the consecration, as they do in many parishes, it seems to me that perhaps we have already reached that point.

The problem does not lie with the new Mass, nor the vernacular, nor anything else so simplistically aesthetic. I’m truly convinced that the teaching of Catholic doctrine has been dumbed down to seem palatable to the masses (especially the protestant masses). Protestants don’t believe in real presence, they don’t believe in the authority of the Pope, they don’t believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, nor devotion to her. They don’t believe in confession, mortal sin, purgatory, or hell. Doesn’t it say something when all of these “hot topics” seem to be either swept under the carpet or, sometimes, out and out refuted by Catholics, including members of the church’s own clergy? All these beliefs still exist in the official catechism of the Church. We just don’t like to talk about them. Now we have a whole generation of people that have never learned them and regard Vatican II as a license to cast off any unpleasant “rituals” that they would rather not have to deal with. The Mass has been a victim of this philosophy. Mass is supposed to be for God, not for us. We are humbly requesting forgiveness of our sins by offering up a sacrifice for one puny hour on Sundays. Why must even that small slice of time be directed at us instead of God?

But if these teachings were to be brought back to the forefront, wouldn’t we see a return to sacredness along with them? Churches would be constructed for worship, rather than socialization. Reverence would return to the Mass, regardless of the language- it’s the reverence that’s been truly lost. In the end, the Church is responsible for saving souls. That’s its main function. It must do what it needs to, regardless of what may be popular at the time. Perhaps the next few generations will be able to defeat the incredible odds against them and return to the basics.