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Holly3278
Guest
I feel that you should emphasize to this person that Catholics also have a personal relationship with Christ. That is why we pray to Him and to the rest of the Godhead as well. 
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SD_Catholic
Guest
Youāre right that does sound wierd
'Course Iāve always liked sitting in a church that was mostly empty and quiet. Even when I was a kid in grade school Iād go up into church during recess and sit. There was something interesting about sitting in a quiet Church with all the playground noise outside. Wierd maybe and I havenāt thought of that in years but it was peaceful somehowā¦
Peace
James
ā¦ but I like it!!!SD
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WatchfulPilgrim
Guest
Yup - ditto here too. I can relate to this as well. Very symbolic really. The world was busy busy like Martha, or just plain having its fun, while we choose the better part, at the feet of Jesus like Mary.
Personally I could never understand it.
All these people rush out and jump in their cars and ---- sit - - and ----sit - -waiting to get out of the parking lot.:whacky:
We stay after mass to pray and give thanks for the greatest gift ever recieved by mankind. Then we will sit for another 5 minutes or so - All in a nice warm, comfortable Church - just contemplating or talking quietly, then we go out to the car and leave without any traffic at all and with no stress.
'Course Iāve always liked sitting in a church that was mostly empty and quiet. Even when I was a kid in grade school Iād go up into church during recess and sit. There was something interesting about sitting in a quiet Church with all the playground noise outside. Wierd maybe and I havenāt thought of that in years but it was peaceful somehowā¦
Peace
James
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ziapueblo
Guest
Thatās right! He and many evangelical Christians do not believe that we have a relationship with God.I feel that you should emphasize to this person that Catholics also have a personal relationship with Christ. That is why we pray to Him and to the rest of the Godhead as well.
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jmcrae
Guest
Well, for some of these people, the fact that you go to Church on Sundays and for the most part obey the Ten Commandments is āproofā that you donāt really know God, because if you really knew God, youād be in the same heap of trouble that theyāre in - whatever it may be.
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neophyte
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Sounds like something my sister asked me last night. For what itās worth, hereās her question and my reply:
āWhy do we need priests, why canāt we just have a relationship with Christ?āTo me, this question sounds like āwhy do I need to engage in intimate physical acts with my wifeā¦canāt I just have a relationship with her?āWeāre created as a body/soul unity. Weāre not pure spirit as are the angels, nor are we pure matter as are the animalsā¦weāre both together. Sure, I can have with a woman a relationship that does not involve acts of physical intimacy, but the deepest relationship I can possibly have with a woman is one that does involve those acts and that is exclusive between the two of us ā ātil death do us part. In fact, those acts are intended by God to be the culmination of a relationship that already existed, one that is ordered toward the spiritual benefit of both parties and through which he imparts grace to us.Christ came so that we might share in his divine life. In his ministry he used physical objects as means to impart grace. Bathe in the river, let me put this mud on your eye, touch the hem of my garmentā¦and afterward objects that had been touched by Paul were carried throughout the county and were used to heal those who touched them (Acts 19:11-12). Christ continued this by instituting the Sacraments: physical acts which are works of Christ that confer the grace that they signify. Some of the Sacraments he established such that they are conferred by him through the ministry of the priesthood. Thatās why we need priests ā because Jesus made it that way.Now, can someone have a relationship with Christ if he donāt avail himself of the liturgical life of the church? Certainly he can, just as he can have a relationship with a woman over the telephone. But that relationship wonāt enjoy the deepest intimacy that it is possible between spouses, nor is it as likely to last an entire lifetime as one that is strengthened by those acts that are proper to the marital relationship.
In the same way, itās possible for one to have a relationship with Christ without availing himself of the liturgical life of the church, but that relationship will not be strengthened by the graces which he wishes to give us and that he makes available only through the liturgical life of His Bride, the church.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
Ahh yesā¦ I agreeā¦ Just like asking why did God need the Apostlesā¦
heck I donāt know, but he did!.. Certainly he could have did it himself and could still be coming down to earth everyday to teach us and get us back on track, but he doesnātā¦ It is what it isSD
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c659smith
Guest
Because ultimately God leaves man the decision weither he or she wants salvation.Ahh yesā¦ I agreeā¦ Just like asking why did God need the Apostlesā¦
SD
Therefore it is the act or actions of the man and woman to decide.
Jesus gave us the way and the light and continued this light through His Apostles, Bishops, and Priests promisong one day to returnā¦
In choosing His deciples there was a traitor, a non believer, and one who denies.
In the end two of the three asked for forgiveness and were forgiven.
But Peter was told watch my sheep after asking Peter three times if he loved Him.
Doubting Thomas was told Blessed are those who believe and do not see but his doubts were forgiven.
Jesus gave His Apostles the ability to forgive or retain sin, to heal the sick and to rid people od demons.
All this Jesus left His deciples to teach others. If we wish to follow as an Apostle we have that choice and if we want to follow as a beliver we have that choice also.
The priests and Bishops are Jesusās Apostles with certain rights given to them. Such as Confession , Mass , Confirmation, and Blessing of the Sick.
If designated by the priest and bishops and in emergency situations the Deacons and Layity can perform Baptism, and Marriage.
The Bishop performs the right of Ordination for Priest bestowing on them the ability to turn the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ along with administering the six remaining Sacraments.
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SD_Catholic
Guest
huh??? I wasnāt really asking this questionā¦ I was kind of just saying it is a good question for those who ask why we (Catholics) need priestsā¦
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c659smith
Guest
Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Matthew 16:19 āI will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.ā
Matthew 18:18 "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
Is that enough reason?
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jean8
Guest
roman cathilic,
Rev.22:18 reads, āI warn everyone who hears the words of prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share of the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.ā
Can you think of anything that has been added or taken away?
How about the Assumption of Mary? What scripture?
God bless,
jean8
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ConallCernach
Guest
I believe the quote from Revelation is more specifically talking about the actual revelation of John since the NT wasnāt completely comprised at that time.
The Assumption of Mary isnāt added to Scripture, it comes from Tradition (capital T). There are three main ways of learning about God. Sacred Doctrine (comprised of Tradition and Scripture (Scripture is included in Sacred Tradition because it was originally oral teaching in the beginning)). And Natural Doctrine, the things that we can learn about God through reason. Though reason can only tell us so much, but God reveals Himself through Sacred Tradition and Scripture.
Pax
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SD_Catholic
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What are you talking about??? Enough reason for what???
Did you miss something along the way? Are you thinking Iām asking why we need priests? Sorry if you misunderstood my postsā¦ I know plenty of reasons for needing priests, and was never questioning it.
SD
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jmcrae
Guest
Actually, the Assumption of Mary is alluded to in Revelation 12:1.
But St. John was referring only to his own book - he was saying, donāt add anything to his book, nor take anything away from it. Nor was he saying that his book encompasses everything that one needs to know about the Christian faith - no. Only that he didnāt want his book to be miscopied or mistranslated.
But he had no concept of a āBibleā at the time that he was writing the Book of Revelation, aka The Apocalypse of St. John the Divine, and even less idea that his book would ever be included in such a pre-eminent compilation of holy writings - the Book of Revelation was only included in the Bible at the last minute, after much debate and great controversy.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Jean do you have even a clue about the context of that warning in Revelation? Do you not know who the woman in Revelation is that is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars?
Do you even know that the author of Revelation never saw a bible and was only referring to the single book he was writing?
Do you know who even put together the bible? Hint: It was commissioned by POPE Damascus in 382 AD and last I checked only Catholics had popes. So what you are referring to is The Catholic Bible and Catholic apostolic teaching and you would do well to listen to the expert on it.
James
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CatholicRevert1
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I thought so too for a few years. I was brought up Anglican and few years ago got involved with a Muslim man (big mistake). I drifted so far away from Jesus that I didnāt even realise it. He said I had to convert to Islam for him to marry me and that is when it hit me like a ton of bricks. I ended the relationship and started attending Church again. I wasnāt getting anything out of the services and it felt really routine. I prayed and prayed about it but thought that my prayers were being ignored. Only after I went to Church with my mother and popped into the Catholic Church next door on my way in did I realise that actually my prayers had been answered - I was in the wrong Church. I now go to Mass and am starting RCIA in September. I hope that your colleague would realise that yes, you need Church to stay close to Jesus whether you think so or not.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Did anyone cite you:
1 Timothy 5:4 But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.
James 1:26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
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caudy
Guest
Yes, that is correct. The book of revelation at 22:18 is ONLY discussing THAT book.
2 Timothy 3:16 reads āAll scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousnessā
āHere we are told that ALL scripture is profitable for reproof and correction. hmmm
John 20:30 reads " Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name"
ā The purpose of the New Testament is to provide authority and teaching so that we may believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings. But the NT is not the sole authority hence Church Tradition and the Assumption of Mary are just as valid.
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VickiKapron
Guest
Hi all,
I was given a fiction book at Christmas called The Shack by wm Paul Young. Itās not a āCatholicā book, but as Iāve been reading it,
it has some good things that make you think about God and how
we often instill our own smallness/limits on Him, among other things.
Anyways, just got to pages 177-79 and I can see the anti-religion, anti-Catholic āchurchā undertones.
This is a huge concernā¦ all the things out there people read every day that lead them down the wrong path (albeit with good intentions), but itās the whole Religion 101, According to ME. This book is a #1 NY Times bestseller. People are reading itā¦ and basically hearing, you donāt need church/religionā¦ just relationship with me and others. It is in many ways, a feel good book, but it is leading people astray.
I read VERY little non-Catholic anything anymore. I get so frustrated! Yet itās important to be able to understand what the world is telling people and what they are LISTENING TO.
It just reminds me how much we also need good CATHOLIC fictionā¦ current fictionā¦ that expresses the love of God and truth of the Catholic Faith.
In this book, the āinstitutionalā church is, of course, a man-made
church. We know this is not true, but that is how much of the
world understands it todayā¦
You would think with all the 30,000 plus variations on āchurchā today that alone would speak volumes to peopleā¦ is there no truth?.. is it just the truth according to me, today? Itās mind boggling.
I appreciate any thoughts on how to share/respond with a dear
Lutheran friend regarding this. My guess is most people who read this, donāt READ THISā¦ or get what is being implied by the words of the authorā¦
Tx for letting me express my consternation!
Vicki
I was given a fiction book at Christmas called The Shack by wm Paul Young. Itās not a āCatholicā book, but as Iāve been reading it,
it has some good things that make you think about God and how
we often instill our own smallness/limits on Him, among other things.
Anyways, just got to pages 177-79 and I can see the anti-religion, anti-Catholic āchurchā undertones.
This is a huge concernā¦ all the things out there people read every day that lead them down the wrong path (albeit with good intentions), but itās the whole Religion 101, According to ME. This book is a #1 NY Times bestseller. People are reading itā¦ and basically hearing, you donāt need church/religionā¦ just relationship with me and others. It is in many ways, a feel good book, but it is leading people astray.
I read VERY little non-Catholic anything anymore. I get so frustrated! Yet itās important to be able to understand what the world is telling people and what they are LISTENING TO.
It just reminds me how much we also need good CATHOLIC fictionā¦ current fictionā¦ that expresses the love of God and truth of the Catholic Faith.
In this book, the āinstitutionalā church is, of course, a man-made
church. We know this is not true, but that is how much of the
world understands it todayā¦
You would think with all the 30,000 plus variations on āchurchā today that alone would speak volumes to peopleā¦ is there no truth?.. is it just the truth according to me, today? Itās mind boggling.
I appreciate any thoughts on how to share/respond with a dear
Lutheran friend regarding this. My guess is most people who read this, donāt READ THISā¦ or get what is being implied by the words of the authorā¦
Tx for letting me express my consternation!
Vicki
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Thanks for sharing your insights Vicki. But you better not just stop reading non-Catholic books but also shut down your TV too. America has become obsessed with the āHaving Salvation My Wayā mentality that does not need a Church anymore. Oprah Winfrey has become the new secular pope of the TV junkies - and the mega church franchises are competing for the rest.
Oprah is very anti-Church and now that she has become a billionaire doing the talk show host thing is now recreating herself to tap into the TV evangelist market through the backdoor to get a few more billions from her devout follower. No doubt her objective is to get to a tax free not for profit status as well.
The Divine Miss Winfrey?
The massive expansion of secularized-religion is is just another confirmation of the sign of the times we live in. It must ultimately come crashing down to the earth at some point before things get better. Itās all going to self implode into total anarchy before much longerā¦
James
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