We Grew up with It

[adstrinity]

Help me out here. I’m under 30, and prefer the TLM as said by priests in union with Rome. I want to attack half of the posters here, but, I’m not sure which ones.

Whose side am I on?

Thank you much.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

Help me out here. I’m under 30, and prefer the TLM as said by priests in union with Rome. I want to attack half of the posters here, but, I’m not sure which ones.

Whose side am I on?

Thank you much.

I’m under 30, prefer the TLM, and have never gone to a Mass that was celebrated by priests not in communion with Rome (nor do I endorse those priests).

Hope that helps

 

[GodIsGracious]

I will be 58 come September. I grew up and made my First Communion and was Confirmed with the Mass in Latin. I was an altar boy until the beginning of my senior year in 1968.

Most importantly, I am not dead yet nor are many of my brothers and sisters who also grew up with Mass in Latin.

I would have to brush up on the rubrics, but I would have no problems with the Latin if I were required to serve today.

OK all you folks who were alive way back when and who aren’t dead yet…

We grew up with the Latin Mass. I had no problems with it. Did you?

Well, I was born in 1968. So… I was right there when it all started. Okay,I’m to blame. I admit it. hangs head in shame

That being said …

I remember having a quieter (and to ME, it is more reverent) Mass. I’ve only ever been to NO Masses. I know no other type of Latin Rite Mass. I’ve been to Divine Liturgy and seriously, I’m considering switching, if anything, because Divine Liturgy seems to have far more respect than at Latin Rite Masses.

That being said … as I grew up, pre-teen in the late 70’s and a teen in the 80’s, I remember being at CCD and one of the teachers being all excited about how we could receive communion in the hand. I was being taught that the Holy Eucharist as the Real Presence of Christ and people wanted to touch it?? That freaked me out, even as a little kid and I never felt comfortable then.

I noticed that Mass was getting louder and louder and there was all this hippy dippy music that I didn’t even like to begin with so to hear it in Mass made it worse. I was living in southern California at the time too…although I did spend summers in San Antonio so I was used to hearing a Mass in another language, Spanish, so hearing Mass in a language I don’t know doesn’t scare me in the least bit.

But I was always taught I had to be reverent. I had to respect Mass. To this day I cannot cross my legs in Mass because I was taught that it was improper and rude. (I realize it’s not, really, but hey … old habits die hard, yanno? ) And I remember grandmother always wearing her mantilla even though she was “chided” by older cousins of mine that she no longer needed it.

We still refrained from meat on fridays. I remember being excited because we could go to McDonalds (yay! it was a TREAT back then, not an expected daily occurance) and get the McFish Sandwich. (Or whatever it was called.)

Maybe it was because I grew up in a mostly hispanic community (although I don’t know Spanish, figure that one out. :whacky that I think things stayed a little more “traditional.” However, over time, Mass had all this music that wasn’t the really cool chants I remembered from the early 70’s. I really disliked it.

Along with not having my questions answered and what appeared to be a protestant revival tent show coming to my own Catholic church I left in the late 80’s. Coming back now I am really dismayed at what I see. I drive 30 minutes to a church here because at least they have a mass or two that there isn’t all this singing. They have a nice quiet mass that I can attend, and the bonus is that they even have a communion rail. We kneel to receive communion. Although some still receive in the hand, I’m grateful that the priest and the EMHCs know how to give communion to someone on the tongue.

And this is an NO mass.

I went to one on Sunday and the EMHC didn’t even know how to give communion to someone on the tongue. I think my beau and I may have been the only ones not to receiving in the hand. (I am not knocking those who do, you do what you want.)

All of that being said, really… the ONLY thing that bothers me the most is that those of us who want a quiet, reverent mass, without all the “Guitar Hero! You ROCK!!!” dramatics and an appreciation for the cruciform church have to drive to far off parishes and being berated and chastised by those who like all that singing and noise and told we’re trying to act superior. No, we’re not. Not all of us like loudness all the time. Some of us do like quiet. And yet it is hard for us to find that quiet. I sometimes wonder if they’re merely trying to “put us in our place.” There is room in “modern times” for a quiet mass. Infact, IMO, we should strive for it - considering all the loudness we have around in our lives. Did God not say, “Be still and know that I am God?” Why must we party at a sacrifice?

Like someone else said, even though I didn’t practice my faith, I always knew it was a rock solid foundation that I could trust. And yet coming back it is almost not like the Church I remembered. I say “almost” because there is one parish here that I like and go to. So, it is jolting. It’s distressing. And it makes some of us sad. I know it makes me sad. Sad that I feel like I’ve walked into a concert hall before Mass. Sad that I’m not sure where the crucifix is (I couldn’t find it at one church!). Sad that there is no tabernacle, within which is the body of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JustaServant]

For all you folks for whom the First Sunday of Advent, 1969 was liberating…more power to you. But, I saw my mother and my neighbors marginalized. The WWII generation. They, more than I, had their world dumped upside down.

I was seven years old in 1969. I don’t remember too much about that time. I know my parents stopped going to Mass in any Catholic Church for a while. Then in the mid-seventies a group of working-class Catholics formed a Latin Mass community on the south side of Pittsburgh. I remember how excited my parents were in finding a Latin Mass again. I didnt understand what the issues were my father was upset about. I never took into account how they felt when the changes occured.
It took me twenty years away from the Catholic Church to realize why my parents felt the way they did.
I prefer the Latin Mass, I can only pray for one to come into this diocease.

 

[aaa_colleen]

I am being chastized left, right, and sideways. I am no triumphalist, Bishop Basil, I have never seen the Pauline Mass celebrated in Latin except on EWTN.

It saddens me to have to drive 25 miles one way as I have done for the last 28 years because my local parishes were more like Protestant churches.

I have no desire to take away the OF from anyone. I am more concerned about the fundamental injustice which was done to all of us who were alive and in the pews on the First Sunday of Advent 1969. A mighty conspiracy theory…Oh, yeah, I want to restore the TLM.

Think again. Think again and then again, again. Forty years ago, I was an altar boy. Forty years ago I sang in my high school choir for the class of 1968. Forty years ago my classmates made me have to sing “Sons of God”, Simon and Garfunkle, and “And They’ll Know We are Christians”. An entire choir dissolved for…what?

Did I get a choice back then? Did I get a vote? Go back and read what Vatican II said and then see what has been done in the “spirit of Vatican II”.

I grew up with a Missa Cantata. When I was not serving on the altar, I was in the pews with my mother and siblings. We chanted Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, etc. Everything we do today in English, I grew up with Latin.

I’ve got 40 years of history to look back over. Forty years. I’m not dead and I have memories of what came before and experience of what is now. I guess I’m just supposed to roll over and play dead.

 

[aaa_colleen]

I also grew up with the latin mass, it does not feel like I am attending the Catholic church anymore the way it has changed. Our mass today seems like more of a protestant service, catholics have changed too, they do not dress like the old days and are not as religious as before, I sure wish we could go back to the old church which I loved very much.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I just find it interesting that you lament how you “lost” What We Grew Up With. I have told you several times that there is a latin Mass 5 minutes away from the cathedral at St. Agnes parish and you tell me that it’s just a “low Mass,” not the Missa Canatata that you grew up with.

Honestly, I don’t understand why you think that Mass in Baton Rouge in 2009 should be celebrated the way you experienced 40 years ago in New Orleans. I also don’t understand why you think that you personally should be instrumental in the decisions and the logistics for the celebration of Mass. We all have to submit to proper authority, be it home, work, school, and even church. The fact that you think “You treat my generation as trash - unless we agree with you” seems puzzling , considering the amount of anger you seem to have because we don’t “agree with you.” I have never asked the church to conform to me. I found a good, reverent parish and have been going there ever since. For me, Mass is not about what I personally want; it is about sanctification, not gratification.

Guess what podnah? What is now the Diocese of Baton Rouge was not a diocese when I was a kid. It was part of the Archdiocese of New Orleans. My wife grew up in what was then the country in Prairieville at St. John with a Missa Cantata. Golly gee whiz, she knows how to use a St. Joseph Missal too.

Perhaps you missed the part about my being able to sing in the cathedral choir for all those years or the fact that a Low Mass is “tacit”. Just whom is submitting? I found a good reverent parish too in 1983. I know we have cathedral choir members who know the Latin; know the chants; know the motets and are being held back. And yet we submit. We do not wish to cause a rucus.

You know what? I could drive down to St. Patrick’s in New Orleans where they have a Missa Cantata with choir and orchestra! They also have an OF celebrated in Latin. Why should Baton Rouge be any different?

It continues to puzzle me why the fact that I would like to have the option to attend a Mass that I grew up with causes such angst amongst people who don’t have a clue.

St. George, Tim, may have an orthodox NO/OF and more power to you. But it ain’t what goes on in my local geographic parish. I’m not a Southern Baptist, Tim. Just because you don’t have it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

 

[Timothysis]

It continues to puzzle me why the fact that I would like to have the option to attend a Mass that I grew up with causes such angst amongst people who don’t have a clue.

There is nothing here that has caused me “angst.” What continues to puzzle me is the fact that you seem to think that you are the authority that decides how Mass is celebrated. The last time I checked, it is that authority of the bishop that provides the faculties that allow Mass to be celebrated in a diocese, and he is the authority on how Mass is said. I would love for you to go to Mass the way you used to, but I think it highly unreasonable for someone to think that they can have things today as they did forty years ago. If that offends you, then I am sorry but I can’t comprehend the exasperation that your personal “demand” has not been met by the bishop. Hopefully, you’ll get your wish someday.

I’m not a Southern Baptist, Tim.

Nice shot, “podnah.”

 

[GodIsGracious]

What continues to puzzle me is the fact that you seem to think that you are the authority that decides how Mass is celebrated.

No one has claimed authority.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Excuse me, Tim. The Bishop of Rome, the Holy Father himself issued the Motu Proprio. Our bishop merely “acknowledged” it. I’ve worked for state government for the last 31 years, Tim. He is basically telling the Holy Father, hey, I hear you and I ain’t gonna do it. And then he lets his “attack dog”, Fr. C. write a scathing editiorial in the Commentator about how the Latin Mass is stupid and nobody want’s it.

You forget, Tim, that I did go to that Catholic boys high school in NO which is aligned with a certain Catholic boys high school in Baton Rouge. And that a certain bishop started his parochial career as chaplain to that certain Catholic boys high school in NO.

Now. There are multiple EFs down in “da City”. St. Pat’s does it best but there are others including St. Lawrence which was the first parish which split off from OLPH (my home parish) way back in the dark ages. Who are you, in your omnipotence, to side with the Bishop and the ex-Chancellor and deny me the EF. Do you really think that I am going to go up to the Bishop and “demand my rights”? What kind of Catholic do you think I am? The Holy Father himself issued the Motu Proprio. Don’t you have the least bit of concern about our Bishop defyining the Holy Father?

Let me tell you something, podnah. I’ve worked for state government for 31 years - in testing. There is something called the “chilling effect” in regards to equal opportunity. What we have in our diocese is a classic “chilling effect”. Our Bishop “acknowledged” the Motu Proprio,

So, cap, it is obvious to me that you don’t have a scintilla of understanding. You don’t see the profound problem of standing against one’s Bishop. The anthropologist in me says you ain’t spent a day in my boots and you are telling me how I should feel.

It doesn’t bother me one bit that you are happy with the OF. What gives you the right to tell me that I was wrong forty years ago to cling to that which I was happy with?

I grew up with the Mass in Latin and I don’t see how I should be reduced to a liturgical ghetto when I know there are members in my cathedral parish who grew up with the EF and have the “been there; done that” awards.

So, you tell me Mr. Modernity…you tell me how I am supposed to go against my bishop? You have no, nada, understanding of Traditional Catholicism.

 

[Timothysis]

So, you tell me Mr. Modernity…you tell me how I am supposed to go against my bishop? You have no, nada, understanding of Traditional Catholicism.

I was not aware that it was the hallmark of Traditional Catholicism to go against one’s bishop. Thank you for the information.

 

[jewells17]

I will be 58 come September. I grew up and made my First Communion and was Confirmed with the Mass in Latin. I was an altar boy until the beginning of my senior year in 1968.

Most importantly, I am not dead yet nor are many of my brothers and sisters who also grew up with Mass in Latin.

I would have to brush up on the rubrics, but I would have no problems with the Latin if I were required to serve today.

OK all you folks who were alive way back when and who aren’t dead yet…

We grew up with the Latin Mass. I had no problems with it. Did you?

What a great post…yes, I remember and have NO problem with it as long as it unites souls with Christ. Go to google and put in “Father Donald Kloster” and watch his four talks on TLM and you will enjoy it more than you can know. He might be on you tube…but PLEASE find this and check it out.

 

[almightyservant]

Timothysis:

I was not aware that it was the hallmark of Traditional Catholicism to go against one’s bishop. Thank you for the information.

I hate to jump in this fire, but who said anything about going against one’s bishop? Did I miss something?

 

[Timothysis]

I hate to jump in this fire, but who said anything about going against one’s bishop? Did I miss something?

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf
“So, you tell me Mr. Modernity…you tell me how I am supposed to go against my bishop? You have no, nada, understanding of Traditional Catholicism.”

 

[almightyservant]

Ahh. I see. I missed that. Perhaps I didn’t interpret those words as “disobedience”.

Maybe Brotherhrolf could clarify that.

 

[thunderballs75]

I was not aware that it was the hallmark of Traditional Catholicism to go against one’s bishop. Thank you for the information.

True. But it is also not part of Catholicism to go against the Supreme Pontiff. I think that’s what brotherhrolf was trying to say. And I believe it was St. Augustine who said that sometimes the Catholic bishops can’t be trusted because many times they err.

Pax.

 

[Jo_Benedict]

**Note:

Please get the discussion back on track and refrain from personal insults and bickering or the thread will have to be closed. Thanks.**

 

[r4j]

I will be 58 come September. I grew up and made my First Communion and was Confirmed with the Mass in Latin. I was an altar boy until the beginning of my senior year in 1968.

Most importantly, I am not dead yet nor are many of my brothers and sisters who also grew up with Mass in Latin.

I would have to brush up on the rubrics, but I would have no problems with the Latin if I were required to serve today.

OK all you folks who were alive way back when and who aren’t dead yet…

We grew up with the Latin Mass. I had no problems with it. Did you?

brotherh - you don’t give up easily. Good quality as long as it’s not abused. Something I want to add that may be related to your query. When persons are proposed for sainthood, I’ve heard that one of the first things they (the folks who makes these decisions) look for is how did the proposed candidate act when they were at odds with the church - did they submit humbly and obediently or did they puruse what they wanted to do i.e. self-will. The person must have submitted or they are out.

 

[John_Grudzien]

I will be 58 come September. I grew up and made my First Communion and was Confirmed with the Mass in Latin. I was an altar boy until the beginning of my senior year in 1968.

Most importantly, I am not dead yet nor are many of my brothers and sisters who also grew up with Mass in Latin.

I would have to brush up on the rubrics, but I would have no problems with the Latin if I were required to serve today.

OK all you folks who were alive way back when and who aren’t dead yet…

We grew up with the Latin Mass. I had no problems with it. Did you?

Right on my Boomer Brother!!! Your description could be me exactly if you were to add one year to yourself!!!. Heck, I STILL say the responses in LATIN at my parish’es NO MESS oops a little Freudian Slip there, I really did mean to write MASS! Boy, doesn’t that drive some of those around me crazy(I STILL to this very day use my 1961 edition of the "New St. Joseph Daily Missal I got for my 11th birthday!!! How many kids nowadays ask for a missal or ANYTHING religious for a B’day present?)!!!
Bring on TLM and this old Knight of the Altar WILL answer the call if need be!!!

 

[brotherhrolf]

I want to apologize for my uncharitable behavior last night. I did resort to New Orleans’ dialect to express my frustration for which I humbly apologize.

I get frustrated with the concept that I grew up with the TLM. I was an altar boy until 1968. I have spoken time and time again how I saw my parent’s generation marginalized to the vigil Mass on Saturday so that they could avoid the guitar Masses, etc. I have explained time and time again that I was comfortable with the Latin and that not only could I serve on the altar, I could (and did) sing in the choir/schola.

I have explained how I have driven 25 miles one way for 25 years to attend a reverent OF parish. I guess I’m just getting tired of being “pooh-poohed” all the time because I would like to see that which was lost forty years ago, restored.

I’m in a very tight place here in my diocese. My bishop, as I have said, merely acknowleged the Motu Proprio. For those of us who grew up before Vatican II, one did not question the archbishop/bishop. Some here forget what I have seen in my life. I saw on live TV Archbishop Rummel excommunicate three people (bell, book, and candle - in Latin no less) on the steps of the Chancery in New Orleans becuase they defied his orders to integrate the Catholic schools of New Orleans.

I know exactly what the Motu Propio said. Do you think that I am alone amongst the other cathedral choristers who would love to be able to function as a choir/schola at a Missa Cantata? I gew up with Missa Cantatas on Sundays and I served Low Mass all during the week. Do I not know the difference? I don’t expect a choir or organist at my cathedral parish at 7am on a weekday. But why, given the fact that we do have a cathedral choir and we do have members of that choir who grew up with the Missa Cantata, are we relegated to life in an indult parish where they cannot sing? And I do need to add that the Archdiocese of New Orleans has multiple TLMs and that we were part of that archdiocese until the early 60s.

The answer? None of us wanted to get Father in trouble with the bishop by exerting our “rights” under the Motu Proprio. One does not question a bishop if one was raised before Vatican II.

What possible difference would it make to anyone else in my diocese if the cathedral parish was to have a Missa Cantata in Latin with choir just once a month even? I grew up with the Mass in Latin. I grew up with a Missa Cantata as did my wife. I do not seek to impose my views on anyone else yet it seems that it is open season on those of us who hold different views from those who forget that there are a whole bunch of us still alive today who experienced something quite different forty years ago.