We had Mormons at Mass on Sunday!

[why_me]

I think you misunderstand what the missionaries were doing. They are not given permission to visit churches because the LDS church is open. The LDS believe no church on the planet but themselves are the TRUE church.

And the Catholic faith does not believe that they are the one true church? I do think they do. In fact, there are two organized christian churches that believe that they are the truth: the LDS and the Catholic. One based on the great apostacy and the other on the keys given to Peter.

 

[why_me]

I agree… but being in a catholic church was part of what started my own questioning… and it started out as defending the LDS church until I found that it was all based on shifting sand.

in Christ
Steph

And yet, an atheist could say the same about all religions and faiths, including the catholic faith. Shifting sands is a careless expression which can be applied to all religions, if the individual is an atheist or believes in secular science.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

this is absolutely the fairest and most accurate explanation of Mormon beliefs and the Temple Endowment Ceremony (Masonic to the CORE!!!) that I have come across online ever:

lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml

it is EXACTLY what I remember.
and I think it will finally put to rest once and for all if this religion is even considered remotely ‘christian’ ( hint: NOT! )

do the RLDS/CofC have a similar Temple Endowment ritual?

 

[why_me]

this is absolutely the fairest and most accurate explanation of Mormon beliefs and the Temple Endowment Ceremony (Masonic to the CORE!!!) that I have come across online ever:

lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml

it is EXACTLY what I remember.
and I think it will finally put to rest once and for all if this religion is even considered remotely ‘christian’ ( hint: NOT! )

do the RLDS/CofC have a similar Temple Endowment ritual?

And who is too say what faith is christian and what faith isn’t? There are some protestants out there that would claim that the catholic faith is not christian.

Mormons live very christian lifestyles, following after the teachings of Christ and Paul. I have to confess, when I see a priest smoking a cigarette, my heart sinks. The body is a temple of the Lord, a place for the holy spirit to dwell in. No room for tobacco in god’s temple. Did not Paul say that the body is a temple? No, mormons live very christian lives. Often, better than many catholics.

 

[why_me]

lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml

:

Your link is antimormon crapola. This is the problem with your link.

 

[Aramis]

It just struck me…What if two catholics visited a Mormon service. Has anyone actually done it, and if so, how were you received? And by the way what is the Churches teaching on visiting and worshiping at other churches?

I went for both a chapel wedding and a blessing and namegiving.

The chapel wedding wasn’t even in the chapel hall, but in a classroom downstairs. Non-mormons were neither specifically welcomed nor made uncomfortable. The service was simple, and elegant, and very minimalist… just enough to meet state requirements, and exchange religious vows, plus a reading from the NT and from the PoGP.

The Blessing and Namegiving, We (My mother and I) were about the only non-Mormons I was aware of… And the “sales pitch” started well before… the moment we arrived, and didn’t know where to go. (Another chap, behind us, got the same treatment, until he pointed out he was simply a mormon from out of town.)

We sat with the friend whose child was being named. The service was a sunday worship service. For me, it was creepy. It looked very much like a parody of the Roman Catholic Mass.

The order of what happened:
Greeting
Readings
Homily
Testimonials
Blessing and Name-giving.
“consecration”
“eucharist”
Second homily.
Dismissal

The wierdest part was how odd it was to see their “Ward Bishop” presiding in a suit and tie. The next wierdest was the testimonials… members getting up and stating how strong their faith is that the LDS are the true church of God, and how Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. One even accused Brigham Young of being a TPoG, too.

At the following reception, the sales-pitch was attempted by a great many… each time cut off by simply stating “I’m not here out of interest in the LDS, but to support my friend in her joy at this milestone.” It was constant, but never the same one twice.

That day also made up my mind: Never again will I attend any Mormon service.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Your link is antimormon crapola. This is the problem with your link.

I didn’t post it to argue with you WhyMe. It is very fair and presents the material fairly. It is not sensational. There will not be a Mormon link for this information since it is held to be sacred and not for public knowledge. So it is either Mormon or anti-Mormon right? If you read the linked pages, at the end of page 2 it does present some Mormon viewpoints. I only said that this is how I remember it to be.

do you know if the RLDS/CofC do the same ritual? I have always wondered about that?

 

[why_me]

I didn’t post it to argue with you WhyMe. It is very fair and presents the material fairly. It is not sensational. There will not be a Mormon link for this information since it is held to be sacred and not for public knowledge. So it is either Mormon or anti-Mormon right? If you read the linked pages, at the end of page 2 it does present some Mormon viewpoints. I only said that this is how I remember it to be.

do you know if the RLDS/CofC do the same ritual? I have always wondered about that?

I understand. I wasn’t blaming you for posting the website. It is just that by reading that site, one can get the wrong impression of mormons. Also, by detailing the temple rites, the people who own that site showed disrespect to what the lds hold to be sacred. I just wanted to make that point.

I don’t know about the rlds. They have become more of a protestant church these days or at least they are trying to be. I have no idea if they still have temple work or rites. But on this board, there is one former RLDS poster. Perhaps this poster will help you out with your question.

 

[zerinus]

do you know if the RLDS/CofC do the same ritual? I have always wondered about that?

The answer to that is no, they don’t.

zerinus

 

[why_me]

I went for both a chapel wedding and a blessing and namegiving.

The chapel wedding wasn’t even in the chapel hall, but in a classroom downstairs. Non-mormons were neither specifically welcomed nor made uncomfortable. The service was simple, and elegant, and very minimalist… just enough to meet state requirements, and exchange religious vows, plus a reading from the NT and from the PoGP.

The Blessing and Namegiving, We (My mother and I) were about the only non-Mormons I was aware of… And the “sales pitch” started well before… the moment we arrived, and didn’t know where to go. (Another chap, behind us, got the same treatment, until he pointed out he was simply a mormon from out of town.)

We sat with the friend whose child was being named. The service was a sunday worship service. For me, it was creepy. It looked very much like a parody of the Roman Catholic Mass.

The order of what happened:
Greeting
Readings
Homily
Testimonials
Blessing and Name-giving.
“consecration”
“eucharist”
Second homily.
Dismissal

The wierdest part was how odd it was to see their “Ward Bishop” presiding in a suit and tie. The next wierdest was the testimonials… members getting up and stating how strong their faith is that the LDS are the true church of God, and how Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. One even accused Brigham Young of being a TPoG, too.

At the following reception, the sales-pitch was attempted by a great many… each time cut off by simply stating “I’m not here out of interest in the LDS, but to support my friend in her joy at this milestone.” It was constant, but never the same one twice.

That day also made up my mind: Never again will I attend any Mormon service.

Your order does not seem correct. Most likely the name was given during the first Sunday of the month. During this service, people give their testimony. In fact, it is called a testimony meeting. But your order seems way off for the name-giving. It usually goes like this. Opening prayer, The name is given, the sacrament is blessed, passed to the people, testimonies are given, closing prayer. This would be during the first sunday of the month. Now if it is not the first sunday of the month, then Opening prayer, the name is given, the sacrament is blessed, passed to the people present, two or three talks given by members, closing prayer.

 

[ChadS]

Yea, since Mormons allow their followers to drink Coffee or other beverages, and excercise control like that, they’re not a cult at all.

BTW I don’t see the point of going to a Protestant ecclesial community either.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

I was raised as a Methodist too and converted to Catholicism in 2004. I don’t see the point in going to church services I left for very specific reasons either. When I have gone back to my old Methodist church, what it is missing in comparison to the beauty of the Catholic church is even more glaringly apparent.

I certainly wouldn’t fault Harpazo for his reluctance in going to another service.

ChadS

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

And the Catholic faith does not believe that they are the one true church? I do think they do. In fact, there are two organized christian churches that believe that they are the truth: the LDS and the Catholic. One based on the great apostacy and the other on the keys given to Peter./

QUOTE]

He’s correct, everybody! When Joseph Smith’s family split (‘apostasized’) from BY’s multiple-wife faction, the Great Apostasy occurred!

Hooray! We got a STRAIGHT answer from a mormon poster!

Ring the angelus! Open the champagne!

Robert

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

And who is too say what faith is christian and what faith isn’t?

There are some protestants out there that would claim that the catholic faith is not christian.
.

Everybody on this Forum who is NOT mormon, islamic or atheist/agnostic will say that mormonism is a pantheology (belief in many gods) and claims that what the Church canonized as the Bible was NOT SUFFICIENT for God’s economy of salvation, hence,

an angel !] dictated or gave the ‘wordofallah/god’ verbatim and perfectly to two illiterate prophets because Judasim/Christianity got it wrong. and, we have those perplexing man-made books:

the Koran and the Book of Mormon.

Mormonism, whyme, is NOT a Christian faith.

Robert

 

[PaulDupre]

Most of the Mormon spin-offs have their own new “scripture” as well. I was reading the Strangites (a Mormon spin-off) web site recently and read some of James Strang’s “Book of the Law of the Lord”. It is very Smith-esque - translated from plates “by the gift and power of God”, with 7 witnesses and written in very bad King James-style English with lots of convenient stuff about Strang being prophesied and called to be the King of Israel and the only prophet and blah blah blah. The CofC have their own D&C, too. So many prophets, so little truth. Well at least James Strang’s writings had a tone of gentle kindness and real love of humanity - in stark contrast to the hateful, prideful and racist rantings of his contemporary Brigham Young.

God bless,
Paul

 

[tundramom]

And yet, an atheist could say the same about all religions and faiths, including the catholic faith. Shifting sands is a careless expression which can be applied to all religions, if the individual is an atheist or believes in secular science.

It’s from a hymn… not a careless expression at all.

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly trust in Jesus’ Name.

**Refrain

On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.**

When darkness seems to hide His face,
I rest on His unchanging grace.
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.

Refrain

His oath, His covenant, His blood,
Support me in the whelming flood.
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my Hope and Stay.

Refrain

When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh may I then in Him be found.
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

Refrain

in Christ
Steph

 

[why_me]

Most of the Mormon spin-offs have their own new “scripture” as well. I was reading the Strangites (a Mormon spin-off) web site recently and read some of James Strang’s “Book of the Law of the Lord”. It is very Smith-esque - translated from plates “by the gift and power of God”, with 7 witnesses and written in very bad King James-style English with lots of convenient stuff about Strang being prophesied and called to be the King of Israel and the only prophet and blah blah blah. The CofC have their own D&C, too. So many prophets, so little truth. Well at least James Strang’s writings had a tone of gentle kindness and real love of humanity - in stark contrast to the hateful, prideful and racist rantings of his contemporary Brigham Young.

God bless,
Paul

´
And yet, where are the spin offs today? Most have fallen by the wayside. The strangites have all but disappeared after Strang was murdered by one of his followers. The CofC have a similiar D & C to the LDS except that they have continuous revelation inside their version. Hence, they have verses well into the 20th century.

Now since you have brought up BY, I certainly would not want to search for quotations from past popes. I know that I would find some humdingers. You see, men and women are imperfect. But that does not make them less a pope or prophet. Does it?

 

[majick275]

BIG difference between pope and prophet. popes do not claim to speak face to face with God to receive continuing revelation that changes doctrine. Find those bad popes… We freely own up to them. even the worst popes never changed the doctrine of the Catholic church.

Brigham Young made his pronouncements as the mouthpiece of the Lord and claimed his doctrines and the practices that he directed the LDS to engage in were revealed directly from God. LDS doctrine, practices and even scriptures have changed multiple times.

 

[dosdog]

´
And yet, where are the spin offs today? Most have fallen by the wayside. The strangites have all but disappeared after Strang was murdered by one of his followers. The CofC have a similiar D & C to the LDS except that they have continuous revelation inside their version. Hence, they have verses well into the 20th century.

Now since you have brought up BY, I certainly would not want to search for quotations from past popes. I know that I would find some humdingers. You see, men and women are imperfect. But that does not make them less a pope or prophet. Does it?

False Prophets

Brigham Young - Cain and his posterity will remain cursed and not receive the priesthood until all other children of Adam have had this privilege. — Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 143 (December 12, 1854)

Brigham Young - Before 26 years go by LDS elders will be as much thought of as kings on their thrones. — Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 40 (August 31, 1856)

Heber C. Kimball - “Brigham Young will become President of the United States.” — Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 219 (September 6, 1856)
irr.org/mit/WDIST/wdist-false-prophecies.html

 

[zerinus]

´
And yet, where are the spin offs today? Most have fallen by the wayside. The strangites have all but disappeared after Strang was murdered by one of his followers. The CofC have a similiar D & C to the LDS except that they have continuous revelation inside their version. Hence, they have verses well into the 20th century.

Now since you have brought up BY, I certainly would not want to search for quotations from past popes. I know that I would find some humdingers. You see, men and women are imperfect. But that does not make them less a pope or prophet. Does it?

You are entirely correct of course. Prophets are human, and are not immune from making mistakes, including silly ones. There are plenty of examples of it in the Bible. Noah made the silly mistake of getting drunk, and exposing himself, for which one of his sons was cursed. Moses made the foolish mistake of failing to glorify God at the waters of Meribah, for which he was chastened, and denied the privilege of entering the Promised Land with the Israelites. Jonah made the silly mistake of trying to escape from the Lord! Then he was swallowed by a fish until he repented. David (who was also a great prophet) made the terrible error of committing adultery with a married woman, and then compounded it by having her husband murdered to cover it up, for which he was punished. Solomon (who was likewise a prophet) made the mistake in his old age of favouring his foreign wives with idolatry, and then himself became idolatrous, for which he (and his posterity) suffered. Isaiah admitted that he had been a man of “unclean lips”. Moving on to the New Testament, we have the example of Peter, who denied the Lord three times; of the doubting Thomas, who would not believe until he had “seen”; of Paul, who persecuted the saints. Peter and Paul had disagreed, they couldn’t have both been right. Paul and Barnabas disagreed, they couldn’t have both been right.

I am sure the critics will now say that these are errors of judgement or conduct, not of doctrine. But how do you know that they also didn’t make errors of doctrine? We don’t have everything that they ever said or wrote. What we have are only what was regarded canonized scripture by them, not everything that they said. The book of Isaiah is only about 40 pages long. Is it conceivable that this is all a great prophet and writer like Isaiah ever wrote or said? Certainly not! But we don’t have everything that they ever said. The only thing that has been preserved has been what was considered at that time to be scripture. But for the LDS prophets, we have everything that they have said. If you want to compare like with like, the right way is to compare modern LDS canonized scripture with ancient canonized scripture, and see how they fair; not everything that they ever said.

zerinus

 

[dosdog]

Old Heresy never dies they just change thier name to LDS

1. Called by its followers “the New Prophecy”, this movement is known to us as Montanism after its founder Montanus, a convert to Christianity. Around the year 170 he began to proclaim to his fellow believers that he was a prophet, that he was the very mouthpiece of that Spirit which the Lord had promised would “teach all things and guide into all truth” (John 14:26; 16:13).

Montanus was soon joined by two women, Priscilla and Maximilla who like him delivered oracles in a state of ecstacy, speaking not in their own persons but in that of the Holy Spirit.
2. Montanus and his companions represented a revival of the apocalyptic spirit and announced the forthcoming end of the world. The Lord was about to return, and the new Jerusalem would be set up in the vicinity of the town of Pepuza in Phrygia. As preparation for the end of all things they purified themselves and cut themselves loose from their attachments to society. The Phrygians, as they were frequently called, fasted longer and more elaborately than other Christians and discouraged marriage.
theologywebsite.com/history/montanus.shtml

Montanism- , apocalyptic movement of the 2d cent. It arose in Phrygia (c.172) under the leadership of a certain Montanus and two female prophets, Prisca and Maximillia, whose entranced utterances were deemed oracles of the Holy Spirit. They had an immediate expectation of Judgment Day, and they encouraged ecstatic prophesying and strict asceticism. They believed that a Christian fallen from grace could never be redeemed. Prisca claimed that Christ had appeared to her in female form. When she was excommunicated, she exclaimed “I am driven away like the wolf from the sheep. I am no wolf: I am word and spirit and power.”

The belief that the prophecies of the Montanists superseded the doctrines proclaimed by the Apostles
education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/Montanis
newadvent.org/cathen/10521a.htm