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TriuneUnity
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Was this the case during the time of the Reformation, or did that change with Vatican II?
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Peter_J
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I believe that, at the time of the Reformation, Catholics generally interpreted Catholic teaching in such a way that all non-Catholics would go to hell.
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Peter_J
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I’m not sure whether you’re saying that seriously or otherwise … but according to wikipedia:
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TriuneUnity
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Let me ask you then…doctrine doesn’t change. We’re both agreed on that, right? Does the interpretation and application of it change, though?
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Peter_J
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TriuneUnity
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Okay…so, if the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages misinterpreted a doctrinal statement made by a Council (Florence) or Papal Bull (Unam Sanctam) to mean that outside of the Pope there is no salvation…is it possible, then, that the Church misunderstood the doctrine of justification?
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turnorburn
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The bible is really quite clear here “all the unbelieving” will go to hell, a place created not for man but for the devil and his angels. That bothers me when people say our God is a mean God, what bothers me even further is that because of that mind set millions will go to that damnable place.
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Ronald_E
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This is a very typical response of someone who looks at the surface of scripture and cannot see the spirit of scripture.Who wants lunch?
Paul discusses being caught in the flesh and the flesh is the mind with all of its preconceived beliefs.
Look at how you have the symbol of rolling eyes. This symbol of eyes rolling is a general response of disdain that is understood in every culture regardless of the language that is spoken.
Why would you exhibit this response? When you do this you cut off further discussion do to an internal resistance that gets expressed through the acting-out of expressing the symbol of disdain which is hostile in nature.
Consequently, this is the same action that Luther exhibited and he attracted to him those who would have the same unresolved hostility with authority in their lives.
I would imagine that based on current research about the brain that 10 seconds after you see who is sending this message your response will be to dismiss before you even consciously respond.
However, it could be as quick as a millisecond before the decision comes to consciousness in your prefrontal cortex. This is the flesh that is so dangerous that Paul discusses.
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turnorburn
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However, it could be as quick as a millisecond before the decision comes to consciousness in your prefrontal cortex. This is the flesh that is so dangerous that Paul discusses.
Mikhail A. Lebedev1*, Adam Messinger1, Jerald D. Kralik1, Steven P. Wise1
1 Laboratory of Systems Neuroscience, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, Maryland, United States of America
A great deal of research on the prefrontal cortex (PF), especially in nonhuman primates, has focused on the theory that it functions predominantly in the maintenance of short-term memories, and neurophysiologists have often interpreted PF’s delay-period activity in the context of this theory. Neuroimaging results, however, suggest that PF’s function extends beyond the maintenance of memories to include aspects of attention, such as the monitoring and selection of information. To explore alternative interpretations of PF’s delay-period activity, we investigated the discharge rates of single PF neurons as monkeys attended to a stimulus marking one location while remembering a different, unmarked location. Both locations served as potential targets of a saccadic eye movement. Although the task made intensive demands on short-term memory, the largest proportion of PF neurons represented attended locations, not remembered ones. The present findings show that short-term memory functions cannot account for all, or even most, delay-period activity in the part of PF explored. Instead, PF’s delay-period activity probably contributes more to the process of attentional selection.
However, it could be as quick as a millisecond before the decision comes to consciousness in your prefrontal cortex. This is the flesh that is so dangerous that Paul discusses.
Mikhail A. Lebedev1*, Adam Messinger1, Jerald D. Kralik1, Steven P. Wise1
1 Laboratory of Systems Neuroscience, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, Maryland, United States of America
A great deal of research on the prefrontal cortex (PF), especially in nonhuman primates, has focused on the theory that it functions predominantly in the maintenance of short-term memories, and neurophysiologists have often interpreted PF’s delay-period activity in the context of this theory. Neuroimaging results, however, suggest that PF’s function extends beyond the maintenance of memories to include aspects of attention, such as the monitoring and selection of information. To explore alternative interpretations of PF’s delay-period activity, we investigated the discharge rates of single PF neurons as monkeys attended to a stimulus marking one location while remembering a different, unmarked location. Both locations served as potential targets of a saccadic eye movement. Although the task made intensive demands on short-term memory, the largest proportion of PF neurons represented attended locations, not remembered ones. The present findings show that short-term memory functions cannot account for all, or even most, delay-period activity in the part of PF explored. Instead, PF’s delay-period activity probably contributes more to the process of attentional selection.
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Ronald_E
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Thanks. Now check out mirror neurons and look at the beautiful explanation of how these influence us. Then tell me what you might think about free will. You will find an article in Scientific American Mind from '07
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turnorburn
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Thanks, I used to subscribe to Science Digest, that was in 80 and talk about information http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/dino_01.gif
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Ronald_E
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If you want we can discuss this PM. Thanks.
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turnorburn
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Good idea
Good idea
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ralphinal
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Say there Ralph your talking about following this one or that one, and you see no difference “right” I follow Jesus, isn’t that what a Christian is supposed to do?
The only person that we should have blind faith in is Jesus. We should trust entirely everything he asks of us to do. Part of that is to beleive that he has sent the Holy SPirit to guide the Church to all truth. In order to do that, you must accept that there is a Church and it can be lead. In order for a group to be lead, it must have leaders.
I do not have blind faith in the pope to get me saved. I do have blind faith in Jesus. That faith lets me trust the Holy Spirit to lead the Church to all Truth. That means leading the pope to correct and only correct teachings.
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turnorburn
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ralphinal
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turnorburn
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PerryJ
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There is nothing heroic about Luther and the Reformation. As noted on my other posts on other threads he is just a man that changed the Bible to meet his weaknesses as a man.
Their have been heresies from the beginning of the Church. We have had the Gnostics, Arian schism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, schism of Cerularius, heresies of Albigensians and now the Reformation.
The papal claims are pretty straight forward:
1)Pope is chief bishop.
2)Has jurisdiction over all members of the Church.
3)To be a member of the Church one must be in communion with the Pope.
4)The guidance of God will see to it that the Pope and Magisterium shall never commit the Church to error.
Christ gave the Pope these powers from the beginning and to refute them is to refute history. I will show a couple of quotes from the early Church. I could publish hundreds of them to support the Pope and his authority.
St. Ignatius “The presiding church in the place of the land of the Romans”
St. Cyprian “one church and one see founded by the Lord; voice of Peter. No other alter can be setup, no new priesthood be made, except the one altar and one priesthood. Whoever gathers elsewhere scatters…one church founded by Christ our Lord on Peter, by the source and reason unity.
Opatatus of Milevis statement to Donatist “How can you pretend to have the keys of the kingdom of heaven, who sacrilegiously fight against the see of Peter by your presumption and impudence.
St. Ambrose “Roman Church is the head of the whole world.”
Schisms are nothing new. Protestants and atheist will publish letters from early Bishops that attempt to show the papacy did not have authority. True there are letters from Church fathers that discuss issues with the Popes. At the end all followed the authority of the Pope. Note even the letter being sent supports that the Pope had and has authority as they all came to seek approval.
All the schisms listed above thought they understood the word of the Lord better than the Church. There is just one Church with the total truth.
Their have been heresies from the beginning of the Church. We have had the Gnostics, Arian schism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, schism of Cerularius, heresies of Albigensians and now the Reformation.
The papal claims are pretty straight forward:
1)Pope is chief bishop.
2)Has jurisdiction over all members of the Church.
3)To be a member of the Church one must be in communion with the Pope.
4)The guidance of God will see to it that the Pope and Magisterium shall never commit the Church to error.
Christ gave the Pope these powers from the beginning and to refute them is to refute history. I will show a couple of quotes from the early Church. I could publish hundreds of them to support the Pope and his authority.
St. Ignatius “The presiding church in the place of the land of the Romans”
St. Cyprian “one church and one see founded by the Lord; voice of Peter. No other alter can be setup, no new priesthood be made, except the one altar and one priesthood. Whoever gathers elsewhere scatters…one church founded by Christ our Lord on Peter, by the source and reason unity.
Opatatus of Milevis statement to Donatist “How can you pretend to have the keys of the kingdom of heaven, who sacrilegiously fight against the see of Peter by your presumption and impudence.
St. Ambrose “Roman Church is the head of the whole world.”
Schisms are nothing new. Protestants and atheist will publish letters from early Bishops that attempt to show the papacy did not have authority. True there are letters from Church fathers that discuss issues with the Popes. At the end all followed the authority of the Pope. Note even the letter being sent supports that the Pope had and has authority as they all came to seek approval.
All the schisms listed above thought they understood the word of the Lord better than the Church. There is just one Church with the total truth.
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turnorburn
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christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html
I’m glad you brought that up “heretics” Question? during and around the time of what we consider today to be the dark ages there were probably enough “heretics” to fill Noah’s Ark. Now my question, lets see if we can take my minor premise and turn it into a major premise. By heretic you are speaking to “anyone” that doesn’t belong to your “Mother Church” true or false, during those hellish dark ages a heretic was taken by force if necessary and tortured until they said Uncle or in this case Papa or the Pope “true or false”
Thanks,
turnorburn
I’m glad you brought that up “heretics” Question? during and around the time of what we consider today to be the dark ages there were probably enough “heretics” to fill Noah’s Ark. Now my question, lets see if we can take my minor premise and turn it into a major premise. By heretic you are speaking to “anyone” that doesn’t belong to your “Mother Church” true or false, during those hellish dark ages a heretic was taken by force if necessary and tortured until they said Uncle or in this case Papa or the Pope “true or false”
Thanks,
turnorburn
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PerryJ
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One shouldn’t state myths as if they are truths. The Catholic Church pulled man out of the dark ages via charity and science. During this time they started orphanages and hospitals throughout the known world. I assume that these “hellish” dark ages you speak of does not take into account the Church starting the university system and the concept of free thought. The forced torture I am supposing was the Inquisitions, as there were three that caused the death of an estimated 5,000 people. Although certainly not one of our better times it certainly doesn’t compare to Luther supporting the murder of 100,000 peasants. Most of these deaths were actually caused during the Spanish Inquisition that the Pope made a papal bull against. I do not mind individuals showing the times when a Catholic person failed and brought pain to this world. I would like the facts to be stated and generic myths not to be propagated.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html
I’m glad you brought that up “heretics” Question? during and around the time of what we consider today to be the dark ages there were probably enough “heretics” to fill Noah’s Ark. Now my question, lets see if we can take my minor premise and turn it into a major premise. By heretic you are speaking to “anyone” that doesn’t belong to your “Mother Church” true or false, during those hellish dark ages a heretic was taken by force if necessary and tortured until they said Uncle or in this case Papa or the Pope “true or false”
Thanks,
turnorburn
If necessary I can provide sources for all of this information.
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