"We Must Affirm that the Papacy is the Anti-Christ"

[ralphinal]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/glassesf.gif
You have some pictures? that’s great so do I have a gander at mine

nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
ralphinal;4016486:
So instead of refuting my assertion, you post anti-CAtholic drivel propogated by an atheist website. I had more respect for you than that. Please read the source of that photo: it is from an anti-Catholic book that has been refuted by most historians as trash.

Please, I had hoped you would respond with scriptures.

 

[turnorburn]

Your right those photos were dummied up by a disgruntled Catholic basher. You have shown me where your heart is, there remains no further proof, even if we played your game and went to the scriptures you would reject those as well, your heart and soul belong to Rome. In the end that great whore will come up with a fistful of hell, and you will be right beside her
What a waist, too bad you don’t expend your energy for Jesus he’s the one your having difficulty with, just ask him but leave the saints and the rest of your icons at home when you do.

QUOTE=ralphinal;4020415]

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u298/hogndog/glassesf.gif
You have some pictures? that’s great so do I have a gander at mine

nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

So instead of refuting my assertion, you post anti-CAtholic drivel propogated by an atheist website. I had more respect for you than that. Please read the source of that photo: it is from an anti-Catholic book that has been refuted by most historians as trash.

Please, I had hoped you would respond with scriptures.

 

[ralphinal]

Your right those photos were dummied up by a disgruntled Catholic basher. You have shown me where your heart is, there remains no further proof, even if we played your game and went to the scriptures you would reject those as well, your heart and soul belong to Rome. In the end that great whore will come up with a fistful of hell, and you will be right beside her
What a waist, too bad you don’t expend your energy for Jesus he’s the one your having difficulty with, just ask him but leave the saints and the rest of your icons at home when you do.

QUOTE=ralphinal;4020415]

I am sorry if I offended you. I never said that the pics were fake. I was pointing out that the explination was not correct. The need for keeping on the good side of a viscious tyrant cannot be overstated.

I would be more than happy to see any and all scriptural proof that you have that the papacy is the anti-Christ. Further, I would love to see any and all proof that the current pope is the anti-Christ, or any of the last 10 popes.

My heart belongs to Jesus. Because of my trust in him, I trust the Church that he founded.

 

[Always_For_Him]

You have shown me where your heart is, there remains no further proof, even if we played your game and went to the scriptures you would reject those as well, your heart and soul belong to Rome. In the end that great whore will come up with a fistful of hell, and you will be right beside her
What a waist, too bad you don’t expend your energy for Jesus he’s the one your having difficulty with, just ask him but leave the saints and the rest of your icons at home when you do.

It seems that you can’t see where ralphinal’s heart is because you are too blinded by your Church’s teachings and anti-Catholic bias that you can’t see what is right in front of you. Nothing that has been shown to you is that difficult to understand. You just think it means something else. ralphinal is not playing a game with you. No Catholic on this thread is playing a game with you. You make a lot of statements, say a lot of untruths about Catholocism, put down the very Church that brought you the Bible that you wouldn’t have otherwise, make a lot of claims to know it all better than we do, saying we would reject the scriptures. We don’t reject Scriptures, we reject your interpretation of Scriptures. Which you have yet, provided for us in any way TO DISCUSS, for you to be so disrespectful to our Church and our beliefs.

You can believe whatever you want to. Nothing you ever say, nothing your Church ever says is going to change the truth/fact that it is the Catholic Church that is THE Church founded and protected by Christ. He promised to protect His Church until the end of time and we believe Him. The Church didn’t go anywhere, nor did we change our teachings. We are still here teaching the same teachings of Christ as He gave them to us. You can say whatever you want to to justify your beliefs, but that doesn’t make them true. Nor does that make the traditions/interpretations of man truth over Christ. We believe in Christ. We believe what He said. For you to think that he lied and didn’t guide and protect His Church, is really sad. All you have to do is look at exactly what the original teachings of the Church ALWAYS were (and still are today in the Catholic Church) until Luther and his buddies decided to make changes and found their own Churches. Really research their reasons, justifications, changes. If you do the research you are supposed to do, instead of believe something that a Church established by man teaches you, you will never be able to prove the Catholic Church in error. Too many people have tried and ended up coming home to Christ’s Church - The Catholic Church.

 

[turnorburn]

It seems that you can’t see where ralphinal’s heart is because you are too blinded by your Church’s teachings and anti-Catholic bias that you can’t see what is right in front of you. Nothing that has been shown to you is that difficult to understand. You just think it means something else. ralphinal is not playing a game with you. No Catholic on this thread is playing a game with you. You make a lot of statements, say a lot of untruths about Catholocism, put down the very Church that brought you the Bible that you wouldn’t have otherwise, make a lot of claims to know it all better than we do, saying we would reject the scriptures. We don’t reject Scriptures, we reject your interpretation of Scriptures. Which you have yet, provided for us in any way TO DISCUSS, for you to be so disrespectful to our Church and our beliefs.

You can believe whatever you want to. Nothing you ever say, nothing your Church ever says is going to change the truth/fact that it is the Catholic Church that is THE Church founded and protected by Christ. He promised to protect His Church until the end of time and we believe Him. The Church didn’t go anywhere, nor did we change our teachings. We are still here teaching the same teachings of Christ as He gave them to us. You can say whatever you want to to justify your beliefs, but that doesn’t make them true. Nor does that make the traditions/interpretations of man truth over Christ. We believe in Christ. We believe what He said. For you to think that he lied and didn’t guide and protect His Church, is really sad. All you have to do is look at exactly what the original teachings of the Church ALWAYS were (and still are today in the Catholic Church) until Luther and his buddies decided to make changes and found their own Churches. Really research their reasons, justifications, changes. If you do the research you are supposed to do, instead of believe something that a Church established by man teaches you, you will never be able to prove the Catholic Church in error. Too many people have tried and ended up coming home to Christ’s Church - The Catholic Church.

Don’t get so excited, you can have your Pope, I chose Jesus, you chose Mary and the saints to save you, at the great white throne judgment as you stand naked before Jesus just tell him what your telling me but there you’ll be telling all of creation, including those tortured and killed in those Inquisitions. I’d wish you good luck but I can’t you need more than that, as for me this thread is dead none of you will hear the truth because you chose to believe a lie.

 

[ralphinal]

Don’t get so excited, you can have your Pope, I chose Jesus, you chose Mary and the saints to save you, at the great white throne judgment as you stand naked before Jesus just tell him what your telling me but there you’ll be telling all of creation, including those tortured and killed in those Inquisitions. I’d wish you good luck but I can’t you need more than that, as for me this thread is dead none of you will hear the truth because you chose to believe a lie.

And yet you have not shown us the Truth. Please show us scriptures to prove that the papacy is anti-Christ. Show us that the pope is the anti-Christ.

If your position is the Truth, it can be shown to be so.

 

[Peter_J]

The only person that we should have blind faith in is Jesus. We should trust entirely everything he asks of us to do. Part of that is to beleive that he has sent the Holy SPirit to guide the Church to all truth. In order to do that, you must accept that there is a Church and it can be lead. In order for a group to be lead, it must have leaders.

I do not have blind faith in the pope to get me saved. I do have blind faith in Jesus. That faith lets me trust the Holy Spirit to lead the Church to all Truth. That means leading the pope to correct and only correct teachings.

Hi ralphinal,

The Catholic position is not that the pope always teaches correctly; but rather that he teaches correctly whenever he makes an ex cathedra statement.

Your version seems to me to be more akin to Fundamentalism than to Catholicism.

 

[Peter_J]

By heretic you are speaking to “anyone” that doesn’t belong to your “Mother Church” true or false,

False.

 

[Peter_J]

I think there are a lot of Catholics on the net who over-use the term “anti-Catholic”. (Think of Uncle Leo calling people anti-Semites. ) But having said that, in this particular case I think “anti-Catholic” is a perfectly appropriate term:

You have shown me where your heart is, there remains no further proof, even if we played your game and went to the scriptures you would reject those as well, your heart and soul belong to Rome. In the end that great whore will come up with a fistful of hell, and you will be right beside her
What a waist, too bad you don’t expend your energy for Jesus he’s the one your having difficulty with, just ask him but leave the saints and the rest of your icons at home when you do.

 

[Peter_J]

I’d wish you good luck but I can’t you need more than that, as for me this thread is dead none of you will hear the truth because you chose to believe a lie.

I would be lying if I said I like the last couple pages of this thread; but I think it’s presumptuous to say that anyone here – Catholic or Protestant – is “choosing to believe a lie”.

 

[ralphinal]

Hi ralphinal,

The Catholic position is not that the pope always teaches correctly; but rather that he teaches correctly whenever he makes an ex cathedra statement.

Your version seems to me to be more akin to Fundamentalism than to Catholicism.

You are correct. I ended the sentence too soon.

 

[Hisalone]

turnorburn;4010707:

I went there, took pictures, bought tee-shirts, sent post cards, and came back with tons of stories.

Jesus promised someone the Holy Spirit to guide them to all truths. That promise was not made to everyone, but to his Apostles, the leaders of the Church. This promise did not have an expiration date on it. The Church would be lead by the Holy Spirit. Individuals were promised the Spirit when needed, but not to lead but to comfort and aid. Jesus also said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. So, either the Church is lead by the Holy Spirit and Hell cannot win or Jesus lied.

In other words, if the Papacy is the anti-Christ, Jesus is a lier.

Catholics always start with false presuppositions.

First the promise of The Spirit of Truth is for all believers.
1 Joh2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will F6 abide in Him.

Was John talking to just the apostles, NO!!!

 

[ralphinal]

ralphinal;4016486:

Catholics always start with false presuppositions.

First the promise of The Spirit of Truth is for all believers.
1 Joh2:27
But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will F6 abide in Him.

Was John talking to just the apostles, NO!!!

Then why did Phillip not correct the Ethiopian eunich when he said “How can I understand unless someone explains it to me?” Why would anyone be sent at all? Why would Paul write “How can they know if they are not taught? How can they be taught if no one is sent?” Why did Jesus tell his Apostles to “Go, Make Beleivers of All Nations” if they were not expected to teach?

The verse that you are saying has to do with understanding who is teaching correct doctrine, not knowing it without learning.

 

[eucharist04]

“It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. It wounds Christ, robs Christ of His glory, puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement, and lifts a piece of bread in the place of the Saviour…If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls, though we loathe and detest their dogmas…”

– C. H. Spurgeon

Spurgeon seems he does not believe in sola scriptura when it comes to 1 John 2.

 

[eucharist04]

We Must Affirm the Idiocy of “the Papacy is the Anti-Christ”

:clapping: :extrahappy:

 

[Hisalone]

Hisalone;4031819:

Then why did Phillip not correct the Ethiopian eunich when he said “How can I understand unless someone explains it to me?” Why would anyone be sent at all? Why would Paul write “How can they know if they are not taught? How can they be taught if no one is sent?” Why did Jesus tell his Apostles to “Go, Make Beleivers of All Nations” if they were not expected to teach?

The verse that you are saying has to do with understanding who is teaching correct doctrine, not knowing it without learning.

First off is 1John just for the apostles or for all believers?
It is for all believers.
Dont ever say that the Spirit of Truth is for only the apostles because that is false.

The Ethiopian enuach did not have the Spirit of Truth until he recieved Christ and was baptised.

There is an office of teacher in Christs church.
There will be apostles, and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers.
Why are there so few Catholics teachers who teach how one is to find and listen to the Spirit of Truth.?

 

[raumzeitmc2]

Luther, Calvin, and their followers have declared the Pope to be the “Anti-Christ,” and furthermore, that

“… popes, bishops, canons, and monks. God has not instituted these offices.”

Luther, To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation.
Luther’s Works: The Christian in Society I, James Atkinson, Helmut T. Lehmann, eds., 1966, Fortress Press, vol. 44, p. 176. ISBN 0800603443
amazon.com/Luthers-Works-Christian-Society-I/dp/0800603443
books.google.com/books?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=popes,+bishops,+canons,+and+monks.+God+has+not+instituted+these+offices&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wp&q=%22popes%2C%20bishops%2C%20canons%2C%20and%20monks.%20God%20has%20not%20instituted%20these%20offices%22

Well, there is certainly nothing new in this kind of rebellious talk against the Pope and the Church.

St. Peter Damian (1007-1072) in his own day had to contend with the monks and townsfolk of Florence, many of whom were saying essentially the same sorts of things about their prelates! St. Damian writes about such people in his letter 146.

I’ve posted some excerpts below, but first, here is the editor’s introduction to letter 146 (Lent 1067 A.D.):

Peter Damian to the citizens of Florence. Writing from Gamugno, he begs the Florentines to compose their differences with their bishop, Peter, whom they had accused of purchasing his office, and to await a decision upon investigation by the approaching synod in Rome. He repeats many ideas already proposed in his earlier Liber gratissimus (Letter 40), defending the validity of acts performed by a simonist bishop. Assuring his readers that he agrees with their opposition to simony, which for him was heresy, he refuses to condemn the bishop before his day in court. ‘It is more tolerable to excuse a sinner, than to prejudge an innocent man.’ He then takes on the monks of John Gualbertus in the city, who, seemingly in support of Cardinal Humbert’s position, had degenerated into revolutionary action by logically nullifying all the acts of simonist bishops and priests, thereby proscribing all sacrament functions in Florence. He cautions these puritans against excessive righteousness and wisdom, and likens them to the Cathari in their anarchical denial of authority to pope, king, archbishop, or priest.

And now the saintly Damian writes:

To the beloved in Christ, the citizens of Florence, the monk Peter the sinner sends his service of fraternal charity…. - P. 155

… when anyone attacks and disparages priests, he thereby also condemns their sacraments, something also that blessed Jude the apostle observes in his epistle when of blasphemers. For in first referring to those who flout authority and insult celestial beings, he then remarked, “When the archangel Michael was in debate with the devil, disputing the possession of Moses’ body, he did not presume to condemn him in insulting words, but said: ‘May the Lord rebuke you.’ (Jd 1:9) Therefore, if the highest angel did not presume to pass judgment and condemn the devil, how is it that man is not afraid to ridicule the sacraments that are filled with the power of the Holy Spirit? For since Truth itself say, “if anyone sins against the Holy Spirit, for him there is no forgiveness either in this age or in the age to come, (Matt 12:32) we must gravely fear that such people surely offend him, without whom the outrage of sin can never be remitted. - Pp. 162-63.

But why do I complain of the disparagement of priests and of the sacraments, when almost everything is torn to pieces by them, spat upon in contempt, and put up to public ridicule? "There is no pope,’ the say, ‘no king, and lastly, no bishop or priest." And so it happened, according to report, that nearly a thousand people were deceived by this trumpery and nonsense, and left this world without receiving the sacrament of the Body and Blood of the Lord. In fact, they are convinced that no true sacraments can be administered by contemporary priest.

There are many churches, moreover, where they consider it not only improper for them to enter, but where they judge them unworthy of paying them their respect. For they disdain to pay honor to churches dedicated by bishops who for some reason they considered unworthy. Indeed, as Luke relates, ‘Paul said, “I appeal to Caesar!’’ To whom Festus replied, “You have appealed to Caesar: to Caesar you shall go.’ (Acts 25:11-12) Is the pope a greater criminal than Nero? Are we to believe that these monks are holier than Paul?

But since Paul, who had previously been caught up to the third heaven, (cf. 2 Cor. 12:2) did not refuse to appear before Nero, what monk can be so proud of his holiness that he dare condemn the decision of the Apostolic See, where, to be sure, attention is paid, not a man’s deserts, but to the regulations governing ecclesiastical office? These monks reach their decision on street corners, and defame the jurisdiction of synods. They pass judgment on monks, disparage everything that smacks of clerics, and are careful not to offend laymen who, indeed, deserve to be more sharply and bitterly censured. Should they see a monk approaching, they will say, "Look, here comes one of those scapulars.” -p. 163.

The Letters of Peter Damian, 121-150 (Fathers of the Church, Medieval Continuation), Owen J. Blum O.F.M., tr., 2004, ISBN 081321372X

amazon.com/Letters-121-150-Fathers-Medieval-Continuation/dp/081321372X

---

“Furthermore, the Catholic Church alone is the body of Christ, of which He is the Head and Saviour of His body. Ephesians 5:23 Outside this body the Holy Spirit gives life to no one seeing that, as the apostle says himself, ‘The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us;’ Romans 5:5 but he is not a partaker of the divine love who is the enemy of unity. Therefore they have not the Holy Ghost who are outside the Church; for it is written of them, ‘They separate themselves being sensual, having not the Spirit.’" Jude 19

St. Augustine, letter 185:50
newadvent.org/fathers/1102185.htm

 

[ralphinal]

ralphinal;4031860:

First off is 1John just for the apostles or for all believers?
It is for all believers.
Dont ever say that the Spirit of Truth is for only the apostles because that is false.

The Ethiopian enuach did not have the Spirit of Truth until he recieved Christ and was baptised.

There is an office of teacher in Christs church.
There will be apostles, and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers.
Why are there so few Catholics teachers who teach how one is to find and listen to the Spirit of Truth.?

There are millions of Catholic teachers. All priests and deacons. Lay people as well who teach. The issue is that you understand that there can be multiple truths. Catholics say that there is one truth. If you think that there can only be one truth as well, then please explain why so many people belong to differnet denominations.

Yes, that verse does apply to everyone. It does not say that they will be able to create doctrine. That verse has to do with telling heresy from truth.

 

[Hisalone]

Hisalone;4032052:

There are millions of Catholic teachers. All priests and deacons. Lay people as well who teach. The issue is that you understand that there can be multiple truths. Catholics say that there is one truth. If you think that there can only be one truth as well, then please explain why so many people belong to differnet denominations.

Yes, that verse does apply to everyone. It does not say that they will be able to create doctrine. That verse has to do with telling heresy from truth.

Did any of those Catholic teachers ever teach YOU that you had the Spirit of Truth and how to access the Spirit of Truth with your questions?

 

[Peter_J]

You are correct. I ended the sentence too soon.

How’s that?