We need to get the message out there - Abortion is not the answer

[StBenedictLabre]

While you and I have different opinions on this issue, I really love what you have said here.

Do you think there is any chance that Ireland will make a shift in their abortion laws?

My husband was born in Dublin (though came with his parents to the state when he was a toddler), so I have many in-laws in Ireland and am always interested in keeping up with what’s going on there.

Many thanks, Little Sheep for your kind words of praise. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this issue.

Despite my grave misgivings so to speak, I definitely think there will be a dramatic shift in Ireland’s abortion laws in the coming years. I’m a teenager but amongst my age group, there is something like 60% or more support for unrestricted access to abortions in all circumstances. That’s a rough figure judging from polls and different things but in my eyes, it is very accurate. However, I don’t believe a change in Ireland’s laws is something we’ll see this or even next year but it’s something that’s around the corner most definitely and something that young people care quite a bit about. I think amongst teenagers and young adults in this country, there is a great hunger for change with regards to this law, however there is a major reason why we won’t see it for a few years yet.

The reason is that the voting bloc in this country is comprised of a very large element of older people. This bloc is the group that vote most regularly and are largely out in force deciding elections. Studies have shown in our country that this group has a disproportionate influence on national proceedings. This group still maintains a very high mass attendance rate of about 70% according to figures and consequently, would largely be wholly against things like abortion and in general needless to say, they would be quite socially conservative. The power of their vote has largely been shown in the recent general election in our country, which took place last month. The largely pro-Catholic and anti-abortion party, Fíanna Fáil doubled their seats in our parliament, while our Liberal party, the Labour Party, who favours unrestricted access to abortions were hammered in terms of losing almost 80% of their seats. As a result of this, pro-life candidates make up a very large part of our parliament. Because of this new make up of pro-life candidates, who are mainly old, we are unlikely to see a change in the term of this new parliament, which could be up to five years.

Our country is odd in the fact that there is such a gulf in that the young generation are incredibly liberal while those who are middle aged and older are very socially conservative. Part of this arguably has to do with the clerical sex abuse scandals in this country, which you might be familiar with due to your relatives. Mass attendance has plummeted amongst this new liberal generation from 80% to around 15%, according to figures by our National Church body on statistics. This has resulted in this generation swinging to being in full favour of laws which contradict traditional Church teaching.

To summise, when the older voting bloc for want of a better term begins in a large part to die off, I then believe we will have a change in the laws. Until then, it is largely unlikely. Great to see you have such an interest in Irish issues. I hope to hear from you soon.

 

[Little_Sheep]

Many thanks, Little Sheep for your kind words of praise. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this issue.

Despite my grave misgivings so to speak, I definitely think there will be a dramatic shift in Ireland’s abortion laws in the coming years. I’m a teenager but amongst my age group, there is something like 60% or more support for unrestricted access to abortions in all circumstances. That’s a rough figure judging from polls and different things but in my eyes, it is very accurate. However, I don’t believe a change in Ireland’s laws is something we’ll see this or even next year but it’s something that’s around the corner most definitely and something that young people care quite a bit about. I think amongst teenagers and young adults in this country, there is a great hunger for change with regards to this law, however there is a major reason why we won’t see it for a few years yet.

The reason is that the voting bloc in this country is comprised of a very large element of older people. This bloc is the group that vote most regularly and are largely out in force deciding elections. Studies have shown in our country that this group has a disproportionate influence on national proceedings. This group still maintains a very high mass attendance rate of about 70% according to figures and consequently, would largely be wholly against things like abortion and in general needless to say, they would be quite socially conservative. The power of their vote has largely been shown in the recent general election in our country, which took place last month. The largely pro-Catholic and anti-abortion party, Fíanna Fáil doubled their seats in our parliament, while our Liberal party, the Labour Party, who favours unrestricted access to abortions were hammered in terms of losing almost 80% of their seats. As a result of this, pro-life candidates make up a very large part of our parliament. Because of this new make up of pro-life candidates, who are mainly old, we are unlikely to see a change in the term of this new parliament, which could be up to five years.

Our country is odd in the fact that there is such a gulf in that the young generation are incredibly liberal while those who are middle aged and older are very socially conservative. Part of this arguably has to do with the clerical sex abuse scandals in this country, which you might be familiar with due to your relatives. Mass attendance has plummeted amongst this new liberal generation from 80% to around 15%, according to figures by our National Church body on statistics. This has resulted in this generation swinging to being in full favour of laws which contradict traditional Church teaching.

To summise, when the older voting bloc for want of a better term begins in a large part to die off, I then believe we will have a change in the laws. Until then, it is largely unlikely. Great to see you have such an interest in Irish issues. I hope to hear from you soon.

Wow, you are a teenager! You are very well-spoken and, clearly, thoughtful.

What you have said here is very similar to what my Irish relatives tell me. There is a similar dynamic in the US - though not quite the large gulf between older and more socially conservative and younger and more progressive.

In any event, I have more to say, but no time to do it right now. I will pop back in soon when I am not so rushed by my real world obligations!

 

[StBenedictLabre]

Wow, you are a teenager! You are very well-spoken and, clearly, thoughtful.

What you have said here is very similar to what my Irish relatives tell me. There is a similar dynamic in the US - though not quite the large gulf between older and more socially conservative and younger and more progressive.

In any event, I have more to say, but no time to do it right now. I will pop back in soon when I am not so rushed by my real world obligations!

Thank you again for your very kind words of praise. Looking forward to hearing your (name removed by moderator)ut soon!

 

[estesbob]

To summise, when the older voting bloc for want of a better term begins in a large part to die off, I then believe we will have a change in the laws. Until then, it is largely unlikely. Great to see you have such an interest in Irish issues. I hope to hear from you soon.

So when the older generation dies off the younger generation will immediately move to facilitate killing the youngest generation ? And this is considered progress?

 

[StBenedictLabre]

So when the older generation dies off the younger generation will immediately move to facilitate killing the youngest generation ? And this is considered progress?

“Progress” in the name of liberalism…

 

[estesbob]

“Progress” in the name of liberalism…

The basic thesis is that the current generation is wiser than all who went before them. Tossing out two thousand years of teachings is not a problem because “we know better”.

 

[StBenedictLabre]

The basic thesis is that the current generation is wiser than all who went before them. Tossing out two thousand years of teachings is not a problem because “we know better”.

I suppose to some extent, that has been the thinking for time immemorial, though in fairness, that we are all right and that the other side is stupid or whatever. However, the self-righteous liberals take this belief to a whole new extent. Anything other than self should be discarded because it impacts on self. Sure is a dangerous way of looking at the world when you think of how that belief is only going to continue developing…

 

[Thorolfr]

To summise, when the older voting bloc for want of a better term begins in a large part to die off, I then believe we will have a change in the laws. Until then, it is largely unlikely. Great to see you have such an interest in Irish issues. I hope to hear from you soon.

Of course, the law was changed in Ireland to allow same-sex marriage without all of the older voting bloc having died off unless a lot of people in that voting block voted for same-sex marriage.

 

[StBenedictLabre]

Of course, the law was changed in Ireland to allow same-sex marriage without all of the older voting bloc having died off unless a lot of people in that voting block voted for same-sex marriage.

Not at all. The turnout for that referendum was less than expected but young people turned out in disproportionate numbers to see it through, getting rid of the old vote’s historic significance. Several of my cousins travelled home from abroad to vote Yes as did tens of thousands of other emigrants.

Abortion is a much more contentious issue in Ireland. There have been several referenda to legalize it in the past. All unsuccessful. An issue like abortion would see the old vote I described rally together in huge numbers to oppose it, along with other pro-lifers of all ages. There have been several large pro-life rallies in Dublin held in the past year and there is clearly a large will amongst a significant number of people to oppose any attempts to change or soften the law.

 

[mikekle]

The basic thesis is that the current generation is wiser than all who went before them. Tossing out two thousand years of teachings is not a problem because “we know better”.

Time is the issue here, look at some of the things our american patriots did back in the days of the nations founding, if they did some of those things today or talked about things they did, in todays world, its likely they would be labelled a domestic terrorist, but we celebrate these people today on the 4th of July, they are viewed as heroes, but at the time they did them, they were anything but.

Same thing with the few that tried to kill Hitler, at the time, they were hated for this…but of course, today, they are considered heroes, its all about passage of time, it takes time for society to recognize whats good and what is bad.

I can only hope, eventually, all of the people that fought against abortion, will be considered heroes and be recognized as such, of course, in our times, they will be hated and despised.

 

[Lea101]

I agree. Many people just tell these scared women/girls to give it up for adoption, as if that will solve all of their problems! More help needs to be given. Young girls are scared of getting disowned-offer them a place to go to if their family refuses to help. They are scared of the medical bills-financial help should be given to poor people. Some are scared to go through pregnancy-make sure they have a good support system. The list goes on. You cannot just say “abortion is murder” and expect people to just listen. Sadly it doesn’t work that way. Women must not feel like abortion is the solution to their problems.

And also I realised that there are people who only care about the child when he or she is in the womb. Once the woman has given birth, nobody really cares enough to support the mother and child. People complain about people living off food stamps, complain about how their taxes go to poor people, etc. This reason is one of the major reasons why teenage girls are becoming pro choice. I see this on my social media almost every week and it’s sad because it’s not like they are lying. A lot of people would not offer help to a poor family, but these people are also the ones telling them not to abort. It’s really confusing for the moms to be.

 

[estesbob]

Time is the issue here, look at some of the things our american patriots did back in the days of the nations founding, if they did some of those things today or talked about things they did, in todays world, its likely they would be labelled a domestic terrorist, but we celebrate these people today on the 4th of July, they are viewed as heroes, but at the time they did them, they were anything but.

Same thing with the few that tried to kill Hitler, at the time, they were hated for this…but of course, today, they are considered heroes, its all about passage of time, it takes time for society to recognize whats good and what is bad.

I can only hope, eventually, all of the people that fought against abortion, will be considered heroes and be recognized as such, of course, in our times, they will be hated and despised.

I believe a generation from now this country will view the abortion ERA the same way they now do the slavery ERA.

 

[_Abyssinia]

I agree. Many people just tell these scared women/girls to give it up for adoption, as if that will solve all of their problems! More help needs to be given. Young girls are scared of getting disowned-offer them a place to go to if their family refuses to help. They are scared of the medical bills-financial help should be given to poor people. Some are scared to go through pregnancy-make sure they have a good support system. The list goes on. You cannot just say “abortion is murder” and expect people to just listen. Sadly it doesn’t work that way. Women must not feel like abortion is the solution to their problems.

And also I realised that there are people who only care about the child when he or she is in the womb. Once the woman has given birth, nobody really cares enough to support the mother and child. People complain about people living off food stamps, complain about how their taxes go to poor people, etc. This reason is one of the major reasons why teenage girls are becoming pro choice. I see this on my social media almost every week and it’s sad because it’s not like they are lying. A lot of people would not offer help to a poor family, but these people are also the ones telling them not to abort. It’s really confusing for the moms to be.

Look at this list of crisis pregnancy centers and the services they provide: cmda.org/resources/publication/crisis-pregnancy-centers

There are centers that can provide help or referrals in regards to financial needs, medical care, legal aid, help with housing etc.

 

[Lea101]

Look at this list of crisis pregnancy centers and the services they provide: cmda.org/resources/publication/crisis-pregnancy-centers

There are centers that can provide help or referrals in regards to financial needs, medical care, legal aid, help with housing etc.

Thanks!
There are not as “available” to them as say, planned parenthood i guess. It’s still better than nothing, so we need to show them these resources and help instead of just telling them not to abort. We already have a poor reputation with a lot of women

We need to promote these help centres/hotlines/etc instead of shouting “abortion is murder”. I think we can all agree on that

 

[estesbob]

Thanks!
There are not as “available” to them as say, planned parenthood i guess. It’s still better than nothing, so we need to show them these resources and help instead of just telling them not to abort. We already have a poor reputation with a lot of women

We need to promote these help centres/hotlines/etc instead of shouting “abortion is murder”. I think we can all agree on that

We should also agree that we will never, never end abortion in this country by voting for pro-abortion politicians .

I counseled in a crisis pregnancy center for five years- outreach is already there. However every single attempt at outreach is fought vigorously by the abortion industry in this country and their Democrat allies in the government .

 

[mikekle]

I believe a generation from now this country will view the abortion ERA the same way they now do the slavery ERA.

Yes, I believe this will happen too, and all the people who are villianized today, for trying to stop it, will eventually be recognized as true heroes, maybe even some who used violence, I say that, because a ‘war’ to stop abortion, imo, would certainly be a just war in Gods eyes.

all the allied soldiers and those who killed the Nazis in WW2 are recognized as heroes and patriots today, even though they used violence to do so, just like the past, society has to to get in the ‘right mindset’ to accept these folks as heroes and recognize the evil for what it is.

I do want to add, I do not condone violence, but at the same time, Ive never heard anyone criticize those who tried to kill Hitler or the allied troops, for using violence in ‘their war’, is the only reason, because WW2 was an ‘official war’? IDK, this raises some questions imo.

 

[estesbob]

Yes, I believe this will happen too, and all the people who are villianized today, for trying to stop it, will eventually be recognized as true heroes, maybe even some who used violence, I say that, because a ‘war’ to stop abortion, imo, would certainly be a just war in Gods eyes.

all the allied soldiers and those who killed the Nazis in WW2 are recognized as heroes and patriots today, even though they used violence to do so, just like the past, society has to to get in the ‘right mindset’ to accept these folks as heroes and recognize the evil for what it is.

I do want to add, I do not condone violence, but at the same time, Ive never heard anyone criticize those who tried to kill Hitler or the allied troops, for using violence in ‘their war’, is the only reason, because WW2 was an ‘official war’? IDK, this raises some questions imo.

Violence is never appropriate. Those who resort to violence are not pro-life and do great harm to the pro-life ministry .

 

[Little_Sheep]

… all the people who are villianized today, for trying to stop it, will eventually be recognized as true heroes, maybe even some who used violence…

Wow.

 

[JimG]

So when the older generation dies off the younger generation will immediately move to facilitate killing the youngest generation ? And this is considered progress?

I think that the tide will turn against abortion. It may take a long time, but the fight will not be abandoned, just as the abolitionists never abandoned their fight against slavery.

“The main point to be understood here is that legalized abortion, like slavery for an earlier generation, is a public policy that cannot be accepted or allowed to remain in place. It must imperatively be fought against even if efforts to do so prove unsuccessful, even if defeats are suffered time and time again. The fight cannot be abandoned.”

From this article by Kenneth Whitehead:

crisismagazine.com/2013/abortion-and-same-sex-marriage-wont-be-settled-on-liberal-terms

 

[Thorolfr]

I believe a generation from now this country will view the abortion ERA the same way they now do the slavery ERA.

I doubt that attitudes are going to change in only a generation, especially since people are becoming less religious, not more so. According to a Pew Survey from 3 years ago:

About half (53%) of white Catholics say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 41% say it should be illegal in all or most cases; among Hispanic Catholics, 43% say it should be legal in all or most cases, while 52% say it should be illegal in all or most cases.

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/09/19/majority-of-u-s-catholics-opinions-run-counter-to-church-on-contraception-homosexuality/

Other demographics are probably even less likely to be against abortion.