We should do away with the UN! It does not work

[Petergee]

Are you going to answer my questions, Seamus?

Horab, kindly tell us who you mean by “they”. I certainly haven’t heard Kofi Annan or anyone else employed by the UN call the US “a terrorist nation” or “denouncing the US”. The UN is an organisation made up of the governments of its member states. Sure, the representatives OF some member states TO the UN have said nasty things about the US. Just like the US ambassador to the UN has said lots of nasty things there about some other countries. To blame the UN for what some countries’ representatives say is like blaming Canada because of what other countries’ ambassadors to Canada have said.

Lance, your argument reminds me of the “arguments” of those who claim that because of “sex scandals” in the Catholic Church and the (until recently) poverty and lack of democracy in most Catholic-ruled nations, that the Catholic Church is evil and must be destroyed.

 

[Lance]

Petergee:

Are you going to answer my questions, Seamus?

Horab, kindly tell us who you mean by “they”. I certainly haven’t heard Kofi Annan or anyone else employed by the UN call the US “a terrorist nation” or “denouncing the US”. The UN is an organisation made up of the governments of its member states. Sure, the representatives OF some member states TO the UN have said nasty things about the US. Just like the US ambassador to the UN has said lots of nasty things there about some other countries. To blame the UN for what some countries’ representatives say is like blaming Canada because of what other countries’ ambassadors to Canada have said.

Lance, your argument reminds me of the “arguments” of those who claim that because of “sex scandals” in the Catholic Church and the (until recently) poverty and lack of democracy in most Catholic-ruled nations, that the Catholic Church is evil and must be destroyed.

Then we have nothing left to discuss and will have to agree to disagree, because I see nothing in the UN oil for food/sex for food/ drug dealing that reminds me of any Christian Church much less the Catholic Church.

 

[Philip_P]

It’s kind of silly to blame the UN because some of it’s member states are antisemitic, antiamerican, anti-pickyourbugaboo. It’d be about the equivalent of saying that the US senate is evil and hateful because I don’t like some things some senators say.

In the 20th century, we had two world wars within a generation. There has been no WWIII. Founding the UN is a legacy the United States can be proud of. Its location in one of America’s great cities reflects well on this country.

 

[Jeffrey]

Hmmm… no disrespect intended… but how are they anti-Canada? Do they treat them like the US? Just curious? And I agree about the UN… worthless/useless IMO too.

Horab:

that about sums up my personal viewpoint about the UN

they are too corrupt and anti-American and i hold dual citizenship with the US and Canada

and the UN hates Canada, too, the UN is useless INHO

-horab

 

[Jeffrey]

Sorry but NO WAY! The UN is evil and beyond currupt… thier pro-abortion agendy is sickening… we need to get the heck outta the UN.
Philip P:

It’s kind of silly to blame the UN because some of it’s member states are antisemitic, antiamerican, anti-pickyourbugaboo. It’d be about the equivalent of saying that the US senate is evil and hateful because I don’t like some things some senators say.

In the 20th century, we had two world wars within a generation. There has been no WWIII. Founding the UN is a legacy the United States can be proud of. Its location in one of America’s great cities reflects well on this country.

 

[Petergee]

Jeffrey:

Sorry but NO WAY! The UN is evil and beyond currupt… thier pro-abortion agendy is sickening… we need to get the heck outta the UN.

There is only one reason why some UN agencies have a pro-abortion “agendy”. That is that the majority of its member nations’ governments are pro-abortion. If you want “the UN” to change any of its policies, you should work on the governments of those countries. Resigning from the UN and branding it “evil” makes about as much sense as seceding from your country or State because its government allows/promotes abortion.

And regarding “security” matters, the UN can do nothing unless the US agrees, even if all the other members agree. The US insisted on the “five great powers” having a veto on security matters at the time the UN was formed. And this is the main reason why the UN was so ineffective in Rwanda, Bosnia etc.

And the US’s financial contribution to the UN is smaller, as a proportion of its wealth, than the contributions of most other countries.

 

[Matt25]

Horab:

hi i don’t want to step on any toes coz i’m new here but…

in the UN they spend alot of time denouncing the US

they call them a “terrorist nation”,

When did the United Nations refer to the USA as a terrorist nation? Was that the Security Council or the General Assembly? Where can I read this official UN statement? Why did the US not veto it since they have that power?

 

[Matt25]

gilliam:

The purpose of the UN is to prevent WWIII. OK, that didn’t happen, but most people are afraid that if we get rid of it, there will be no international platform for countries to come to for grievences.

Most people includes the Holy Roman See and most of the worlds Catholic Bishops

 

[Matt25]

Lance:

The folks who have been under the UN wing the longest are the most wrecked people on the face of the earth: the Palestinians.

Actually I think the brutal Israeli Occupation, which the Vatican opposes, might have more to do with Palestinian poverty than the UNRWA, which the Vatican supports

By contrast, a couple of years after imperialist warmonger Bush showed up, Afghanistan and Iraq have elections, presidents and prime ministers.

The Catholic Church opposed the invasion of Iraq, do you want to withdraw from that too?

Regarding the invasion of Afghanistan, I think you will find that it was not opposed by the UN, or indeed the Church, so its a bit of a red herring to mention it here isnt it now?

BTW the occupation of Afghanistan is a NATO not an American operation. Your countries habit of ignoring even its allies who are fighting and dying alongside you doesn’t boost US popularity around the world.

 

[gilliam]

Matt25:

BTW the occupation of Afghanistan is a NATO not an American operation. Your countries habit of ignoring even its allies who are fighting and dying alongside you doesn’t boost US popularity around the world.

I am pretty sure NATO took over Afghanistan only a few months ago. When we went in, it was a US operation. Mostly CIA and Special Ops.

 

[Digitonomy]

gilliam:

I am pretty sure NATO took over Afghanistan only a few months ago. When we went in, it was a US operation. Mostly CIA and Special Ops.

NATO’s leadership of the ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) took effect in August 2003 , but the ISAF was headed by NATO countries as far back as December 2001. I don’t think the US is really much of a part of ISAF, I think we mostly do our own thing over there. According to this site, the US has 89 troops in ISAF.

 

[Geldain]

Seamus:

What does that bumper sticker say? “Take the US out of the UN and take the UN out of the US?” Yeah, that’s it.

I couldn’t agree more!

Dissolve the UN, ASAP.

 

[Geldain]

Philip P:

In the 20th century, we had two world wars within a generation. There has been no WWIII.

Please share with us how, if you know, the UN has prevented WW3?

Founding the UN is a legacy the United States can be proud of.

Oil for food. Rhwanda. Bosnia.

Its location in one of America’s great cities reflects well on this country.

How so?

 

[Lance]

Matt25:

Actually I think the brutal Israeli Occupation, which the Vatican opposes, might have more to do with Palestinian poverty than the UNRWA, which the Vatican supports

The Catholic Church opposed the invasion of Iraq, do you want to withdraw from that too?

Regarding the invasion of Afghanistan, I think you will find that it was not opposed by the UN, or indeed the Church, so its a bit of a red herring to mention it here isnt it now?

BTW the occupation of Afghanistan is a NATO not an American operation. Your countries habit of ignoring even its allies who are fighting and dying alongside you doesn’t boost US popularity around the world.

While we’re at it I see no reason to keep NATO either. The USSR is no longer a threat and it’s about time you Europeans started defending yourselves. Just my opinion.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Petergee:

Lance, your argument reminds me of the “arguments” of those who claim that because of “sex scandals” in the Catholic Church and the (until recently) poverty and lack of democracy in most Catholic-ruled nations, that the Catholic Church is evil and must be destroyed.

Please explain Rwanda.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Petergee:

And regarding “security” matters, the UN can do nothing unless the US agrees, even if all the other members agree. The US insisted on the “five great powers” having a veto on security matters at the time the UN was formed. And this is the main reason why the UN was so ineffective in Rwanda, Bosnia etc.

UN bureaucracy and corruption played no role in the Rwanda. Rwanda was just an accident, a blip on the radar screen of manifest goodness.

:ehh: :nope: Not.

 

[Matt25]

gilliam:

I am pretty sure NATO took over Afghanistan only a few months ago. When we went in, it was a US operation. Mostly CIA and Special Ops.

See what I mean about ignoring US allies. Blair is obviously wasting his time cosying up to the USA

guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,565125,00.html

In a short but emotional address, the prime minister confirmed the use of sea-launched cruise missiles in the attack as he explained British involvement with the assault on the Taliban and Bin Laden’s al-Qaida network. Mr Blair said the Taliban had been given three weeks to choose between justice or terror “and they chose to side with terror”. He said there was no doubt that the attacks were carried out by the al-Qaida network and masterminded by Bin Laden.

** While the US would bear the brunt of the attack, Mr Blair said it would be backed not only by Britain, but France, Germany, Austria and Canada**. The powerful coalition of support had “strengthened, not weakened” since last month’s atrocities, the prime minister said. Mr Blair has played a pivotal role in shorting up the coalition, having just returned from a lightning trip to Russia, Pakistan and India.

 

[Matt25]

Ani Ibi:

Please explain Rwanda.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1288230.stm

**Between April and June 1994, an estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed in the space of 100 days. ** Most of the dead were Tutsis - and most of those who perpetrated the violence were Hutus. Even for a country with such a turbulent history as Rwanda, the scale and speed of the slaughter left its people reeling.

The genocide was sparked by the death of the Rwandan president Juvenal Habyarimana, a Hutu, when his plane was shot down above Kigali airport on 6 April 1994. A recent French official report blamed current Rwandan President, Paul Kagame.

The report - extracts of which appeared in the daily, Le Monde - said French police had concluded that Mr Kagame gave direct orders for the rocket attack. Rwanda has rejected the report, describing it as a “fantasy”. Within hours of the attack, a campaign of violence spread from the capital throughout the country, and did not subside until three months later.

 

[Matt25]

Ani Ibi:

UN bureaucracy and corruption played no role in the Rwanda. Rwanda was just an accident, a blip on the radar screen of manifest goodness.

:ehh: :nope: Not.

What did Canada do to stop the genocide?

 

[AndyF]

Seamus:

What does that bumper sticker say? “Take the US out of the UN and take the UN out of the US?” Yeah, that’s it.

Unless of course they should approve of yet another war that seems to pop up every 8 years, then they’re our buddies again.

What’s that famous Bush “war drum” phrase again, something like “If their not with us their against us”?

Andy