We should eat less to show solidarity with the poor, says cardinal

[vern_humphrey]

I suspect there are cardinals and bishops who have a very poor opinion of the laity – and I suspect that is because they don’t get out amongst the laity and listen to our concerns.

It reminds me of the Army’s Ethics Training in the early '70s – after the scandals of the Viet Nam War, the Army set up a panel of generals who lectured to the students at the Command and General Staff College. They made the mistake of circulating a student questionnaire afterwards – and the generals were astounded to find the captains and majors saw the generals as the truly unethical officers!

 

[jman507]

Or … it could be symbolism over substance.

You must step back a bit, and understand why fasting? If it was meant to be materially substantive to help the hungry be fed, it might be good to actually see how effective it is, but the point is meant to be more substantive spiritually. To seek to try to in some little way to deny yourself to try to suffer atleast in a bit like the poor who are hungry, is redemptive suffering. That is substantive, though very possibly not materially substantive.

 

[aimee]

I work hard to enjoy my delicacies and that makes life bearable. I can do all three - enjoy fine things, ie material and food, as well as give to the poor AND fast.

Well Well, I agree CathCentrist…

 

[Lance]

In general, you’re correct. There is some value to symoblic action, but the danger is when the symbolism over-rides substance. And we’ve become very bad about that – abdicating our responsibility to act in many cases because we have substituted moral support for some idea or other for effective action.

If we wish to help the poor, we must educate them. In a nation where about 30% of children never graduate from high school, and where many who do graduate are functionally illiterate, we cannot ever eradicate poverty.

The one thing we Catholics were famous for – our schools – are decayed and shrinking. Let us make a committment to expand our Catholic schools, and establish new ones in the poorest areas of the country. Then we can say we are doing something about poverty.

You are spot on about the education. My daughter teaches 3rd grade in a puplic school. The school is next to a university and only a few blocks from public housing so she gets kids whose parent(s) are either professors or 4th generation unemployed. She buys kids books at garage sales and has her own ‘library’ in her room. She noticed that many of the poor kids never returned the books, when she asked one of them why she did not return the book the kid said it was the only book in her home and she liked to read. Since then she does not worry about the books disappearing. The wealthy kids come into her class reading at or above the level expected of them. Most of the poor ones do not but when they leave her class they read at the level they should because she spends hours of her own time with them and refuses to just pass them on to the next level. She has held kids back and she has parents asking for her because an older sibling got so much out her class. We need to hold teachers accountable for the ‘product’ they turn out. Just as we don’t expect the same production from a factory worker who gets poor raw material as the one who get excellent raw material, teachers should be rated on the level of kids they get but when the kid leaves their class they should be at or above grade level in all subjects. If that means more remedial classes and teachers because the parents did not teach what they should have at home then so be it. The parents probably did not teach it because they did not know it themselves. We must break the cycle of ignorance or we have no chance of breaking the cycle of poverty. (Rant is over! )

 

[vern_humphrey]

You are spot on about the education. My daughter teaches 3rd grade in a puplic school. The school is next to a university and only a few blocks from public housing so she gets kids whose parent(s) are either professors or 4th generation unemployed. She buys kids books at garage sales and has her own ‘library’ in her room. She noticed that many of the poor kids never returned the books, when she asked one of them why she did not return the book the kid said it was the only book in her home and she liked to read. Since then she does not worry about the books disappearing. The wealthy kids come into her class reading at or above the level expected of them. Most of the poor ones do not but when they leave her class they read at the level they should because she spends hours of her own time with them and refuses to just pass them on to the next level. She has held kids back and she has parents asking for her because an older sibling got so much out her class. We need to hold teachers accountable for the ‘product’ they turn out. Just as we don’t expect the same production from a factory worker who gets poor raw material as the one who get excellent raw material, teachers should be rated on the level of kids they get but when the kid leaves their class they should be at or above grade level in all subjects. If that means more remedial classes and teachers because the parents did not teach what they should have at home then so be it. The parents probably did not teach it because they did not know it themselves. We must break the cycle of ignorance or we have no chance of breaking the cycle of poverty. (Rant is over! )

Amen. Without education, we will never break the poverty cycle. And I look around at the public school system and see far more failures than successes. And, frankly, I see more educators who are interested in preserving the status quo (but demand more and more money) than I see teachers like your daughter.

So I say we need Catholic schools. We ought to be moving into the ghettos right now and setting them up. I think we ought to have a second collection each month for Catholic schools – and our bishops and priests ought to tell us why we need to put more in the collection plate.

 

[Lance]

Amen. Without education, we will never break the poverty cycle. And I look around at the public school system and see far more failures than successes. And, frankly, I see more educators who are interested in preserving the status quo (but demand more and more money) than I see teachers like your daughter.

So I say we need Catholic schools. We ought to be moving into the ghettos right now and setting them up. I think we ought to have a second collection each month for Catholic schools – and our bishops and priests ought to tell us why we need to put more in the collection plate.

Right! We should also make the pay at Catholic schools at least close to what the public schools pay. In the begining my daughter would have loved to teach at a Catholic school but she could not afford to live off what they were paying. It is a shame that the Catholic schools, in our area at least, are paying about 25% to 30% less than the public schools and the benefits are no where near what the public schools offer. In my parish I see us spending money on things that are not neccessary yet our teachers are underpaid, and I think my parish is one of the better ones. Most of our teachers have husbands who earn enough so that they are able to afford the pay cut they take by not working in the public school system and it is a shame that we are in that situation.

 

[CathCentrist]

…somehow you are conjuring up for me an image of someone who has his cake and eats it too…

I believe the Cardinal is addressing those who are lost in their dainties and have forgotten the poor.

If thats what the cardinal meant then he should have stated it just the way you did. As long as we help our lesser breathren, I have no problem then in “having MY cake and eating it too”…which by the way is a dumb saying. Who gets cake and DOESNT eat it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If thats what the cardinal meant then he should have stated it just the way you did. As long as we help our lesser breathren, I have no problem then in “having MY cake and eating it too”…which by the way is a dumb saying. Who gets cake and DOESNT eat it.

Actually, it’s a rather insightful saying – it neatly expresses a diemma of diametrically opposite goals – eating your cake, and still having it (for later.)

 

[vern_humphrey]

Right! We should also make the pay at Catholic schools at least close to what the public schools pay. In the begining my daughter would have loved to teach at a Catholic school but she could not afford to live off what they were paying. It is a shame that the Catholic schools, in our area at least, are paying about 25% to 30% less than the public schools and the benefits are no where near what the public schools offer. In my parish I see us spending money on things that are not neccessary yet our teachers are underpaid, and I think my parish is one of the better ones. Most of our teachers have husbands who earn enough so that they are able to afford the pay cut they take by not working in the public school system and it is a shame that we are in that situation.

Pay is not an unsolvable problem. There are several things we can do – including more use of computer-based education to make our teachers more efficient.

But the first thing we should do is have our Bishops commit to building up our schools and have them **lead **us. Have an extra collection once a month in every parish – whether it has a school or not – for the general support of Catholic schools. Hold fund drives in every parish for Catholic schools.

We Catholics give less than most other religions – and the reason, in my opinion, is that our Bishops don’t lead us. They don’t set goals and challenges for us and urge us to excel.

 

[Lance]

Pay is not an unsolvable problem. There are several things we can do – including more use of computer-based education to make our teachers more efficient.

But the first thing we should do is have our Bishops commit to building up our schools and have them **lead **us. Have an extra collection once a month in every parish – whether it has a school or not – for the general support of Catholic schools. Hold fund drives in every parish for Catholic schools.

We Catholics give less than most other religions – and the reason, in my opinion, is that our Bishops don’t lead us. They don’t set goals and challenges for us and urge us to excel.

We are in agreement! Wanna move up to the Rockford diocese and help lead the charge? You could also run for office up here! Did you see Ditka’s comment about Obama when asked what Obama’s chance of getting elected president were? He said, “If I had decided to run nobody would know who he was!” (The Republicans tried to get Ditka to run against Obama)

 

[chicago]

Since they have no access to the media, and most are illiterate, I somehow doubt that our starving brothers in Africa would get any symbolic gesture we might make.

And if they were aware of it, they’d probably ask, “How does fasting on your part put food into my child’s belly?”

There’s also a genuine spiritual benefit to fasting within the Body of Christ which goes beyond a mere “symbolism”.

 

[Lucania]

I work hard to enjoy my delicacies and that makes life bearable. I can do all three - enjoy fine things, ie material and food, as well as give to the poor AND fast.

I can’t believe I’m saying it, but DITTOS CathCentrist!

 

[chicago]

Perhaps for us in the Western world, the question would be, why don’t we live in regular houses instead of McMansions? Why don’t we give up an activity or two in our hectic livestyles so we can actually be home to cook our own food or clean our own houses every once in awhile?

Perhaps we could give up buying the latest gizmo or fashion? Watch TV on a regular screen instead of buying the latest, biggest, flatest one? Any of those sacrifices would be good to help us understand more of what it is like to NOT have those choices. And as Geezerbob said, we could then complete the sacrifice by donating that time or treasure so that the poor can benefit from our efforts.

I think that this was the idea behind the bishops enabling us to substitute something more appropriate than simply abstaining from meat on Fridays. There are surely things which would get at the same reality, but be more meaningful.

 

[Richardols]

Pay is not an unsolvable problem. There are several things we can do – including more use of computer-based education to make our teachers more efficient.

But the first thing we should do is have our Bishops commit to building up our schools and have them **lead **us. Have an extra collection once a month in every parish – whether it has a school or not – for the general support of Catholic schools. Hold fund drives in every parish for Catholic schools.

We Catholics give less than most other religions – and the reason, in my opinion, is that our Bishops don’t lead us. They don’t set goals and challenges for us and urge us to excel.

Agreed. My North Little Rock, Ark. parish BTW includes an envelope in the usual monthly packet of contribution envelopes one for Catholic schools, and this parish has never had a school.

 

[chicago]

Eating less would be much more healthy for most of us. I fail to see how my passing on that serving of bacon or Edy’s ice cream will help the poor unless I give the money I saved to a charity. I feel that by living in the best house I can afford, driving a good truck/car, buying new clothes, eating good food and enjoying gadgets like remote control TV, a cell phone, my P/C, etc. I am giving a lot of people work and work beats charity any day.

The problem isn’t having these things, but allowing them to take over to the point that a materialistic focus begins to underly our real intentions. As some have put it, we can get a case of the “mores” whereas perhaps it would be helpful to learn a practice of “enough”. In the end, then, it isn’t a matter of (as someone else commented), “Having you cake and eating it too”, but rather sharing your cake with others, thus making it truly all of ours.

In that identification of empathetic oneness, perhaps we find the definition of that which another asked as to what solidarity is.

 

[Al_Masetti]

If I as an individual engage in fasting, then I should disguise it so that no earthly person will ever know … it would be ONLY between me and God. No one else would ever know.

(So much for SHOWING solidarity with the poor.)

Where I live, fish is very expensive. It used to be cheap. But now it is trendy.

Fasting, unsupervised by a doctor, can be damaging to one’s health … if one is diabetic or hypoglycemic or have some other conditon.

We are not allowed to do anything to damage our health. Further, if we are working and / or travelling and if fasting causes us to become dizzy, then fasting could cause harm to ourselves and to others.

The Church’s rules on fast and abstinence are reasonably stated and are reasonable for maintaining health.

It might be more efficacious if we were to use our energy to work actively to eliminate poverty … ensure that people take education seriously, for example. Or, perhaps, here at CAF, to argue for truth in science, rather than for passive acceptance of science fiction.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We are in agreement! Wanna move up to the Rockford diocese and help lead the charge? You could also run for office up here! Did you see Ditka’s comment about Obama when asked what Obama’s chance of getting elected president were? He said, “If I had decided to run nobody would know who he was!” (The Republicans tried to get Ditka to run against Obama)

I wish we only had a bishop here – we’ve had an empty seat since Bishop Sartain was transferred.

 

[Lance]

The problem isn’t having these things, but allowing them to take over to the point that a materialistic focus begins to underly our real intentions. As some have put it, we can get a case of the “mores” whereas perhaps it would be helpful to learn a practice of “enough”. In the end, then, it isn’t a matter of (as someone else commented), “Having you cake and eating it too”, but rather sharing your cake with others, thus making it truly all of ours.

In that identification of empathetic oneness, perhaps we find the definition of that which another asked as to what solidarity is.

We are in agreement. IMO to be a gluton, buy more food than you need or you know will not eat is a sin. I also think it is sinfull to eat out 3 times a week, drive a big gas guzzler, go on expensive vacations, wear ‘Prada’ and throw $5 in the collection plate on Sunday. We most certainly should be willing to share what we have with our brothers and sisters who are less fortunate than ourselves.

 

[iserve]

I would add to the above post that I don’t believe that people should be dropping their “excess” in a basket for someone else to take care of problems. True solidarity means to share in the experience, and far too many people in this country have no idea that this means that we deliberately expose ourselves to the misery of others. Millions of people in this country suffer from all kinds of things, but most of them boil down to time and attention from others. I worked for a Catholic charity for many years and cannot tell you how many Catholics were in need of company, rides, visits childcare, and on and on, but there were very few of the hundreds of thousands of parishioners in the diocese who were willing to do anything. Throwing money at the problem compounds it because it makes the issue about money rather than true Christian brotherhood.
In my work, my co-workers and I sacrificed great careers for low pay and little acknowlegement. This matters little to me, I raised a fine family without cable tv and fancy clothes, without ever owning a new car or going to restaurants with waiters. My children are now good, compassionate adults who know that their job is to be Gods servant firstbut when they were young, they were so unusually mature and well-grounded that they were almost always chosen as peer leaders and honors. Sadly, what should be the norm is now outstanding, nothing that they were doing was beyond what their faith calls them to.
I am rich in these and many other blessings because God rewards our good with His good, while the world gives money for money. Our Church needs to preach this loud and clear if we want to get ourselves out of the spiritual doldrums of our age. Nothing attracts people to God like the love and trust that is visible in His followers. Our solidarity leads to salvation and a chance to rejoice together in heaven.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I would add to the above post that I don’t believe that people should be dropping their “excess” in a basket for someone else to take care of problems. True solidarity means to share in the experience,

The uiltimate cause of hunger is not lack of food – there is enough to feed everyone on the planet. The ultimate cause of hunger is the use of hunger as a weapon by brutal, corrupt dictators. Now, how do you share that experience?