We should eat less to show solidarity with the poor, says cardinal

[iserve]

I truly believe that whenever we suffer we learn something about ourselves. While we cannot remove niether our own pain,nor that of others, we can share in human sorrow, but only with presence. Jesus did this with His sorrowful death and left the Eucharist for us to know Him always. Far as I know, He left us no other earthly thing. Is this not good enough?
As to those people in those war-torn countries, we can use diplomacy, cry out for justice for them as a united people, and as in Iraq, send our own beloved young people to help them defend themselves. Even this, though, does not wipe away our obligation to be present to others who *are *in our midst.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I truly believe that whenever we suffer we learn something about ourselves.

Unless I miss something, no one has called for suffering – or, to put it another way, anyone who thinks a little fasting is suffering has led a sheltered life.

While we cannot remove niether our own pain,nor that of others, we can share in human sorrow, but only with presence. Jesus did this with His sorrowful death and left the Eucharist for us to know Him always. Far as I know, He left us no other earthly thing. Is this not good enough?

I point out that Jesus did suffer – and if He and His suffering are to be the yardstick, then I serlously doubt there will be many with courage to follow through.

As to those people in those war-torn countries, we can use diplomacy, cry out for justice for them as a united people, and as in Iraq, send our own beloved young people to help them defend themselves.

You just put your finger on it – the only way to help people in those countries is to meet force with force. But you know we’re not going to do that.

Even this, though, does not wipe away our obligation to be present to others who *are *in our midst.

Those in our midst are mal-nourished – most of them as a consequence of eating too much of the wrong foods. They don’t lack food, they lack education.

Now, will the Church commit itself to expand our Catholic schools for these people?

 

[Luke77]

Less weight for us more food for the poor its a win win if it is done right. However it becomes hard to do with out knowing how to excatly define poor, malnurished ect. Giving to the poor is a great thing and part of the faith but today is seems like most (Secular) charities are being run as a bussiness. Never less the poor still need help and we are not really hitting the mark as an society. The working poor who have a home a job and food but are really not getting by are the ones who seem to get the least attenition!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Less weight for us more food for the poor its a win win if it is done right.

The problem isn’t a shortage of food, it’s inability to get the food to the hungry – mostly because of brutal, corrput dictators who use hunger as a weapon. There’s plenty of food for everyone – if we could get the food to them.

However it becomes hard to do with out knowing how to excatly define poor, malnurished ect.

In the United States, the poor are more likely to be obese than the affluent. The problem is not that they don’t have food, it’s their eating habits.

Giving to the poor is a great thing and part of the faith but today is seems like most (Secular) charities are being run as a bussiness.

And Catholic Charities are no exception – they have become an arm of the state, taking the secular values of the state in order to maintain the flow of state money.

Never less the poor still need help and we are not really hitting the mark as an society. The working poor who have a home a job and food but are really not getting by are the ones who seem to get the least attenition!

The one thing we could do, we will not do. We used to be famous for our schools. But we are shrinking our schools, closing many down – even as the public school system fails the children of the poor.

 

[Andruschak]

We should eat less to show solidarity with the poor, says cardinal

The spiritual discipline of fasting has a long tradition in Christianity, and is practised most regularly in Lent, the season of penitence that begins next month. For centuries Roman Catholics and Anglicans also practised eating less on Fridays, cutting out meat and eating fish instead. Many regret that the prohibition of meat on Fridays was relaxed in 1966 by Pope Paul VI, who wanted Catholics to pray and do charitable works instead.

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OK, I am in formation with the Confraternity of Penitents (CFP) and the Brothers and Sisters of Penance (BSP). Since Novermber 13 2006 (excluding Sundays and Solenaties), I eat two meals a day, dinner and supper. Supper does not include meat or fish. No snacks inbetween meals. I abstain on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays. Drinks like milk, juices, coffee, tea, etc etc. permitted between meals

Your suggestions for improving this would be welcome.

Note, yes, I do feel hungry a lot of the time, but for some strange reason actually seem to be more alert and active.

Whether this is actually helping the poor is hard to say. However, I have been informed that it does help the Poor Souls in Purgatory. I hope so.

 

[iserve]

I worked for a Catholic charity, and it wasn’t any better. I feel that the reason we are failing in the situation is that throwing the excess of one group at the suffering of another is like throwing salt on wounds. The poor, the suffering and and downtrodden are far better served in person, and preferably in the person of one who is not too well-paid, highly educated and/or far removed from the plight of those they serve. All of our human service projects are faltering under these conditions.
If this was what Jesus wanted, He would have come to earth as a king instead of the Christ-child in a manger. His ministry of love and healing did not have Him out raising money, nor seeking a higher minimum wage for everyone. Rather, He went out to meet them at their level and showed them He understood them (this is best exemplified in the Samaritan woman). It was at this level that they were convinced He was Gods messenger. One the other hand, one reason that Catholic schools are failing now is that teachers want to get the good salaries of the public schools and are not willing to trust God enough to sacrifice this for presenting the future with good, faith filled education. Most Catholic hospitals, some charities and colleges are only nominally Catholic, they serve business models better than the Church’s.
So, Vern, go ahead and continue to fuel this going-nowhere situation. Me, I am choosing the way I have been -giving and getting at the same time. God bless everyone out here who serves others in favor of worldly acheivements. And who are you to say that choosing near poverty isn’t suffering?

 

[vern_humphrey]

I worked for a Catholic charity, and it wasn’t any better. I feel that the reason we are failing in the situation is that throwing the excess of one group at the suffering of another is like throwing salt on wounds. The poor, the suffering and and downtrodden are far better served in person, and preferably in the person of one who is not too well-paid, highly educated and/or far removed from the plight of those they serve. All of our human service projects are faltering under these conditions.

Which is why I am disturbed by what some people call “Social Justice” which seeks to fob off our duties on the government and absolve us of all duties to do something ourselves.

If this was what Jesus wanted, He would have come to earth as a king instead of the Christ-child in a manger. His ministry of love and healing did not have Him out raising money, nor seeking a higher minimum wage for everyone. Rather, He went out to meet them at their level and showed them He understood them (this is best exemplified in the Samaritan woman). It was at this level that they were convinced He was Gods messenger. One the other hand, one reason that Catholic schools are failing now is that teachers want to get the good salaries of the public schools and are not willing to trust God enough to sacrifice this for presenting the future with good, faith filled education. Most Catholic hospitals, some charities and colleges are only nominally Catholic, they serve business models better than the Church’s.

We must give of ourselves – save one child from abortion, help one unwed mopther to care for her new child, teach one illiterate adult to read.

And let us fund our schools and good works out of our own collection plates, and not sell our souls to the government for a grant.

So, Vern, go ahead and continue to fuel this going-nowhere situation. Me, I am choosing the way I have been -giving and getting at the same time. God bless everyone out here who serves others in favor of worldly acheivements. And who are you to say that choosing near poverty isn’t suffering?

I am reminded of a Trueadu cartoon. A cleaing woman is complaining of her back and Jane Fonda says she should attend Jane’s exercise classes.

“Miz Fonda, I ain’t got the time.”

“Nonsense! No one is busier than I am, and I have the time to exercise.”

“Miz Fonda, you is as busy as you wants to be, and I is as busy as I gots to be. And there’s the differnece.”

 

[iserve]

True enough, Miz Fonda! Sounds like we’re on the same page.,

 

[Al_Masetti]

Where did the word “solidarity” come from?

I’ve been an active participating catholic for 64 1/2 years, and it just seems to me that the word “solidarity” is a relatively recent expression that may have had its origins in a context of organized labor.

There are words that do and have appeared in the Catholic lexicon for centuries. But “solidarity”, as I recall, isn’t one of them.

For example, at a seminar, a well-written Catholic priest stated that “mortification of the flesh” (a well used traditional Catholic expression) must be practiced carefully to avoid the deleterious effects of malnutrition. He said that if you really want to practice “mortification of the flesh” that you should eat your vegetables … in other words, eat a well-balanced diet.

If we fail to eat a well-balanced diet, we may actually cause our bodies to weaken; and we are forbidden to cause harm to ourselves.

Generally, if someone is doing physically arduous work, they require a diet with substantial caloric content. So, if someone is digging a ditch to lay a water line to a community without running water (or operating heavy equipment or a motor vehicle), then the person doing the work had better be on something more substantial than a starvation diet.

 

[mommyof4]

Is having 4-6 kids showing solidarity with the poor?

Yep. And take my word for it, it helps make you poor!

 

[Andruschak]

Where did the word “solidarity” come from?
.

From the Labor movement, later taken up by Martin Luther King as part of the Civil Rights Movement. MLK’s birthday was last Monday, which is probably what prompted that bit about eating less to show solidairity with the poor.

I also agree that our bodies are Temples Of The Holy Spirit, and things like Abstinance and Fasting should never be done to the point of damage to the body. I have been properly monitored by my Physician during my current fast, just to make sure:thumbsup:

 

[Al_Masetti]

I sort of sense that by showing solidarity with the poor, we are acknowledging that poverty is a permanent condition … perhaps even condemning certain individuals and social classes to occupying the conditon of “poverty” on a permanent basis.

Is someone poor if they have a cell phone?

My sense is that “the poor” (depending on the definition) occupy a transitional stage.

I previously defined “poor” as anyone who has to get paid by the hour, who must accoun for his or her time.

The poorest of the poor are those who take their meals at soup kitchens and live in cardboard boxes. There aren’t many of them and they generally have other “issues” (such as drug use and /or chronic severe mental illness).

It seems to me that the obligation is not to feel “solidarity” with the poor, but rather to uplift them. If they are young, to help them get an education or to find a job and provide them with the skills to keep that job. If they are young, to defer having children until after marriage and after they have the money to support a family. And for all, to gain an understanding of Christian values, which include deferred gratification.

There is no sin in putting money away for the future (savings and investment) and in pushing our kids to get an education. Even “untouchables” in India send their kids to get tutoring in computer skills so that they can grow out of poverty.

I don’t see that “solidarity” is helpful. I don’t see that there is much benefit to glorifying the lexicon of victimology.

In contrast, there is tremendous glory in helping people to get lifted up and out of the worst poverty.

 

[chicago]

I sort of sense that by showing solidarity with the poor, we are acknowledging that poverty is a permanent condition …

Well, Jesus did say that the poor you will have with you always. So while it may not be the same ones, there will always be those who are in some way poor.

And, in some sense, it is all our responsibility to “become poor” in order to rely upon God and enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Andruschak]

IIn contrast, there is tremendous glory in helping people to get lifted up and out of the worst poverty.

Well, as a 22 year sober member of AA, I suppose I have been helping there.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well, Jesus did say that the poor you will have with you always. So while it may not be the same ones, there will always be those who are in some way poor.

It should be our aim to make poverty a transitory status – and the best way to do that is to ensure every child in America has a first-class education. Since the public schools have failed to do that, let us do it. Let us revitalize our Catholic schools. Let us start new Catholic schools in the poorest neighborhoods.

I say to the Bishops, “Call on us, and we will respond.”

And, in some sense, it is all our responsibility to “become poor” in order to rely upon God and enter the kingdom of heaven.

Of course it is – but the best way to do that is to give of ourselves in a truly worthy and effective way. Let us end poverty through education.

 

[chicago]

It should be our aim to make poverty a transitory status – and the best way to do that is to ensure every child in America has a first-class education. Since the public schools have failed to do that, let us do it. Let us revitalize our Catholic schools. Let us start new Catholic schools in the poorest neighborhoods.

I say to the Bishops, “Call on us, and we will respond.”

You need to make this a signature line, vern, so that you don’t have to incessantly repeat it on every thread multiple times.

Of course it is – but the best way to do that is to give of ourselves in a truly worthy and effective way. Let us end poverty through education.

Plenty of people call frequently for “ending poverty” by any number of means. It sounds good, but there will always be poor people, no matter how you slice the pie.

 

[Al_Masetti]

You need to make this a signature line, vern, so that you don’t have to incessantly repeat it on every thread multiple times.

Plenty of people call frequently for “ending poverty” by any number of means. It sounds good, but there will always be poor people, no matter how you slice the pie.

Everybody should be above average.

 

[Andruschak]

Everybody should be above average.

Cheer up, 50% already are above average

 

[vern_humphrey]

You need to make this a signature line, vern, so that you don’t have to incessantly repeat it on every thread multiple times.

Probably.

But come with me and I will show you whole counties in Arkansas with adult illiteracy rates over 50%. And by some strange concidence, these are the poorest counties in the nation.

Plenty of people call frequently for “ending poverty” by any number of means. It sounds good, but there will always be poor people, no matter how you slice the pie.

There is an old saying, “The perfect is the enemy of the good.” When Jesus said we would always have the poor with us, He didn’t specify a percentage of the population. We are perfectly free to try to reduce the percentage of poor as low as we can.

Now, I don’t think fasting – as good for the soul as it may be – is going to reduce the proverty rate. I know welfare and housing projects didn’t reduce the poverty rate. But I know many a kid raised in a poor neighborhood who managed to get an education and as a result has a good job.

 

[Andruschak]

Now, I don’t think fasting – as good for the soul as it may be – is going to reduce the proverty rate. I know welfare and housing projects didn’t reduce the poverty rate. But I know many a kid raised in a poor neighborhood who managed to get an education and as a result has a good job.

Thank you. I agree that my ongoing fasting will probably do not much good as far as the poverty rate goes. My hunger pangs are certainly not helping anyone.

But my biweekly paycheck shows deductions for federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, Medicare tax…now some of this is going to the poor, right?