We should eat less to show solidarity with the poor, says cardinal

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Thank you. I agree that my ongoing fasting will probably do not much good as far as the poverty rate goes. My hunger pangs are certainly not helping anyone.

But my biweekly paycheck shows deductions for federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, Medicare tax…now some of this is going to the poor, right?:eek:
Jesus said, “The poor you have with you always.”

And ten thousand poverty program bureaucrats shouted back, “You betcha! If we have anything to do with it!”😉
 
We are perfectly free to try to reduce the percentage of poor as low as we can.
Naturally.
Now, I don’t think fasting – as good for the soul as it may be – is going to reduce the proverty rate.
Really, I do think that you underestimate the spiritual signifigance of a sacrificial offering in union with Christ. Certainly, there are unseen and well served benefits derived from such which go far beyond anything we can initially see for ourselves. In fact, it may well be just such sacrificial solidarity which earns the grace needed for the kind of social progress which we all desire to see accomplished. Perhaps it is even a first necessary step which the Lord is awaiting for from us.
 
Naturally.

Really, I do think that you underestimate the spiritual signifigance of a sacrificial offering in union with Christ. Certainly, there are unseen and well served benefits derived from such which go far beyond anything we can initially see for ourselves. In fact, it may well be just such sacrificial solidarity which earns the grace needed for the kind of social progress which we all desire to see accomplished. Perhaps it is even a first necessary step which the Lord is awaiting for from us.
The sentence in bold sums up what I think – prayer and fasting is the first step, not the last or only step. May we be given the grace to get off our Catholic butts and do the things that need to be done.
 
The sentence in bold sums up what I think – prayer and fasting is the first step, not the last or only step. May we be given the grace to get off our Catholic butts and do the things that need to be done.
Well, then, we’re in agreement. Admitedly, I’m often put off by people who simply say, “I’ll pray for you!” to someone in need. I always want to shout out, “Do something dammit!” Prayer is prerequisite, but it doesn’t end there and can’t be used as an excuse for inaction. Nevertheless, let’s be careful not to go to the opposite extreme of becoming mere activists, either, and failing to value the real importance of the spiritual realities at the root of it all.
 
Well, then, we’re in agreement. Admitedly, I’m often put off by people who simply say, “I’ll pray for you!” to someone in need. I always want to shout out, “Do something dammit!” Prayer is prerequisite, but it doesn’t end there and can’t be used as an excuse for inaction. Nevertheless, let’s be careful not to go to the opposite extreme of becoming mere activists, either, and failing to value the real importance of the spiritual realities at the root of it all.
My problem with this issue is, no one would say, “Let’s pray to show solidarity with the poor.” It seems the fasting is neither all that spiritual, nor a prelude to action.
 
My problem with this issue is, no one would say, “Let’s pray to show solidarity with the poor.” It seems the fasting is neither all that spiritual, nor a prelude to action.
I’d disagree. I think that is precisely the idea of calling for a fast.
 
I’d disagree. I think that is precisely the idea of calling for a fast.
Okay. What’s the next step?

I feel like the old British rhyme describing a military disaster:
The Earl of Chatham, with his saber drawn
Stood waiting for Sir Richard Strawn
Sir Richard, longing to be at 'em
Stook waiting for the Earl of Chatham.
And of course, while they waited for each other, nothing happened.
 
Okay. What’s the next step?

I feel like the old British rhyme describing a military disaster:

And of course, while they waited for each other, nothing happened.
How about Fasting & Prayers & Alms? (In my case, the alms are through AA)

If not, what would you suggest for me? :confused:
 
How about Fasting & Prayers & Alms? (In my case, the alms are through AA)

If not, what would you suggest for me? :confused:
Ah, I see your point. Let me explain – it’s not so much what you or I should do as individuals, it’s what we should do together as a Church.

As scattered, uncoordinated individuals, our impact is much less than it would be if we had a clear plan and good leadership. And that’s what I’m asking the Bishops for.

You and I, no matter how hard we work, cannot build, staff and run a Catholic school in the poorest and worst-educated counties in Arkansas. But as part of a wider movement, our small contributions and efforts can result in those poor children getting a good education.

If the Bishops will lead us – call on us to commit to a great undertaking – we will respond.
 
Ah, I see your point. Let me explain – it’s not so much what you or I should do as individuals, it’s what we should do together as a Church.

As scattered, uncoordinated individuals, our impact is much less than it would be if we had a clear plan and good leadership. And that’s what I’m asking the Bishops for.

You and I, no matter how hard we work, cannot build, staff and run a Catholic school in the poorest and worst-educated counties in Arkansas. But as part of a wider movement, our small contributions and efforts can result in those poor children getting a good education.

If the Bishops will lead us – call on us to commit to a great undertaking – we will respond.
Yet when the bishops do call upon us to respond to something, too often they are either ignored or castigated.

I recently heard the columnist John Allen speak. He noted that we always seem to be looking to the bishops for “leadership”. But they often come up wanting. Interestingly, he reminded that their charism of preserving the faith is essentially a conservative one and noted that traditionally the best leadership movements within the Church have not come from the bishops at all, but lay or religious endeavors. Perhaps we need to expend less energy on criticizing the bishops for not doing their jobs and expend more on doing what we can ourselves, even without their help.
 
Okay. What’s the next step?

I feel like the old British rhyme describing a military disaster:

And of course, while they waited for each other, nothing happened.
Sometimes waiting on the Lord to move in the hearts of others is all that we can do
 
Yet when the bishops do call upon us to respond to something, too often they are either ignored or castigated.

I recently heard the columnist John Allen speak. He noted that we always seem to be looking to the bishops for “leadership”. But they often come up wanting. Interestingly, he reminded that their charism of preserving the faith is essentially a conservative one and noted that traditionally the best leadership movements within the Church have not come from the bishops at all, but lay or religious endeavors. Perhaps we need to expend less energy on criticizing the bishops for not doing their jobs and expend more on doing what we can ourselves, even without their help.
I herewith take exception to the notion that bureaucracies, whether they are ecclesiastical or government, get much of anything done.

Parish schools are built by activist pastors.

I grew up in a place in which ONE pastor was responsible for not only buiding the parish school, but also two Catholic high schools that served about 20 parishes.

The work of Mother Theresa was the work sparkplugged by ONE person.

I know of a program that started in one person’s living room and grew so large that it spread to a half-dozen parishes. Not a diocesan effort. One fellow started it.

Arguably the largest soup kitchen in a diocese was the work of one priest. No diocesan money or facilities.

I know of another parish/ministry that was totally funded by volunteers and suffered nothing but interference from the diocese.

I’m not mentioning any specifics to avoid “political problems”.

But every effective program that I’ve seen has been the result of the heroic work of one person.

P.S. Two other examples come to mind: Catholic Answers and EWTN. And ETWN was OPPOSED by the local bishop and needed the pope to run interference.

P.P.S. The more I think about this, the more examples I can think of where ONE person took a leadership and pioneering role.
 
Yet when the bishops do call upon us to respond to something, too often they are either ignored or castigated.
We don’t have a bishop in this diocese right now – but when we did have one, he didn’t even call on us to say the rosary in front of an abortion clinic.
I recently heard the columnist John Allen speak. He noted that we always seem to be looking to the bishops for “leadership”. But they often come up wanting. Interestingly, he reminded that their charism of preserving the faith is essentially a conservative one and noted that traditionally the best leadership movements within the Church have not come from the bishops at all, but lay or religious endeavors.
Have you ever read the Letter to Arsacius?

The Emperor Julian (Julian the Apostate, ca 350 AD) sought to re-convert the empire to a sort of reformed paganism. But he found Jews and Christians remarkably resistant. In his letter to Arsacius, he says, “For it is disgraceful when no Jew is a beggar and the impious Galileans [the name given by Julian to Christians] support our poor in addition to their own.”

The Church used to do great things – and the bishops led us.
Perhaps we need to expend less energy on criticizing the bishops for not doing their jobs and expend more on doing what we can ourselves, even without their help.
I’d be glad to – but I want to do it as a Catholic, and with the Catholic Church. That means I need a bishop – to bless the undertaking and exhort the faithful.
 
My problem with this issue is, no one would say, “Let’s pray to show solidarity with the poor.” It seems the fasting is neither all that spiritual, nor a prelude to action.
Maybe you ought to take that to prayers and fasting this lent. If the fasting is not that spiritual it might be that it is done with the wrong attitude.
 
The Church used to do great things – and the bishops led us.
Typically, in times and places when the bishops were also the societal leaders because they were “clerics” and most Catholics weren’t that “advanced” in societal life. I suppose that takes us right back to your “education” mantra.
I’d be glad to – but I want to do it as a Catholic, and with the Catholic Church. That means I need a bishop – to bless the undertaking and exhort the faithful.
You’re certainly free to do things on your own in union with the Church even absent a bishop. No need to wait.
 
It would be nice too, if we had a second collection once a month and donated the money we save by eating less. .
we do this, it is called the St Vincent de Paul collection and it goes to feed the poor in our own parish whether or not they are Catholic
 
Good idea Vern…
another idea…
Try to keep the poor in mind when grocery shopping. When you stroll down the meat and fish counter think about the poor…or when you walk by the more dainty, delicate and costly items…pass them by. Find a good association that helps the poor and donate money and food that will help.
excellent idea, many grocery chains have barcoded coupons at the checkout which let you donate 1, 5 or 10 dollars to your local hunger center, see if your store participates in such a program. For years we had Operation Rice Bowl boxes on the kitchen table all year round, where our kids made their own donations out of their allowance, but we also made a point of putting extra money saved by “lean meals”, we did this not just in Lent, but every month, put the money in the collection. We also tithed at the grocery story by spending another 10% of the bill on items for the parish food pantry (spend 50 on family groceries, pick up $5 worth of canned goods, baby food etc for food pantry). They are good concrete ideas to help teach your children.
 
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