I do pray and fast during Lent. But doing it with the wrong attitude in my opinion is getting up, dusting off our knees and thinking, “Well, that’s taken care of!”Maybe you ought to take that to prayers and fasting this lent. If the fasting is not that spiritual it might be that it is done with the wrong attitude.
Oh, I know why we did things like that. What I doin’t understand is why we stopped!Typically, in times and places when the bishops were also the societal leaders because they were “clerics” and most Catholics weren’t that “advanced” in societal life. I suppose that takes us right back to your “education” mantra.
And I do – but without the impact I and others could have if we worked as a nation-wide team, under the strong leadership of our Bishops.You’re certainly free to do things on your own in union with the Church even absent a bishop. No need to wait.
When we, as Catholics, grew upwardly mobile due to our “education”. Ah, wonderful American Calvinism!Oh, I know why we did things like that. What I doin’t understand is why we stopped!
When we were a poor, dispised and discriminated-against minority, we accomplished miracles. Now we are above the National average for income (that is, non-Hispanic Catholics are) and we want to have the government do it all under the rubric “social justice” (but we’ll sit on the couch and mutter approval while someone else advances the ball.)When we, as Catholics, grew upwardly mobile due to our “education”. Ah, wonderful American Calvinism!
That’s why we need fasting, to remind us of our roots. Perhaps we ought to heed the cardinal in question who’s trying to lead us.That’s why we need leadership from the Bishops – to remind us we’re still Catholics!
Oh, I don’t reject fasting and prayer. By no means.That’s why we need fasting, to remind us of our roots. Perhaps we ought to heed the cardinal in question who’s trying to lead us.
Well, you’ll have to rely on the Holy Spirit, and use your gifts for being able to discern what actions have good intention but ineffective, and what is right and will bear good fruit.Oh, I don’t reject fasting and prayer. By no means.
But I ask, “What’s the next step? How will we take the virtues and zeal we achieve through fasting and prayer and work as a Church to help the poor, sick and illiterate?”
In other words, we no longer have a right under canon law to pastoral leadership?Well, you’ll have to rely on the Holy Spirit, and use your gifts for being able to discern what actions have good intention but ineffective, and what is right and will bear good fruit.
What does using individual discernment as to the Lord’s call have to do with canonical rights? The two are in no way opposed. I feel for you not having a bishop in place, vern, but everything is not ultimately about just following in lockstep behind some sort of episcopal marshalling.In other words, we no longer have a right under canon law to pastoral leadership?
Making excuses for poor leadership has apparently become a cottage industry in this country.What does using individual discernment as to the Lord’s call have to do with canonical rights? The two are in no way opposed. I feel for you not having a bishop in place, vern, but everything is not ultimately about just following in lockstep behind some sort of episcopal marshalling.
So lead us, vern. As has been stated here previously, bishops usually aren’t very good leaders. Why beat your head against the wall hoping they will be, when we could better expend that energy finding positive outlets as best as possible?Making excuses for poor leadership has apparently become a cottage industry in this country.
As an old solder, I do a bit to lead.So lead us, vern.
True, but leaders may be made as well as born.As has been stated here previously, bishops usually aren’t very good leaders.
Actually, what I do accomplishes a bit – what I could do if the Bishop would merely endorse it would be a great deal more.Why beat your head against the wall hoping they will be, when we could better expend that energy finding positive outlets as best as possible?
Even with the support of a bishop, it would still be reliant upon the self starting efforts of personalities in parishes. It’s always that way, no matter how much “the bishops wants” something.The problem is, this approach is personality-dependent, and that means it has no legs. If the next parish doesn’t have a self-starter, they won’t get started. With the support and leadership of a Bishop, we could have all sorts of highly-effective projects in every parish.
If that were true, leadership wouldn’t work in Armies, either.Even with the support of a bishop, it would still be reliant upon the self starting efforts of personalities in parishes. It’s always that way, no matter how much “the bishops wants” something.
Bad analogy. The Church doesn’t operate like a military institution. It just ain’t set up that way.If that were true, leadership wouldn’t work in Armies, either.
But it does. One good man at the top can make more difference than a thousand below him.
Actually it’s a very good analogy – the Church Militant resembles an army in many ways. While it doesn’t have tanks and artillery, it does have a formal, authoritarian, herarchical structure, a formal doctrine, and a real mission.Bad analogy. The Church doesn’t operate like a military institution. It just ain’t set up that way.
Certainly a bishop can “lead, influence, and inspire”. But that can’t effectively command. Ultimately, it is up to us to respond. In a sense, then, while the Church has a central core of the faith in the episcopate, it is more functionally a bottom-up organization, dependant upon the vast multitude of faithful for it’s success perhaps to a greater degree than the bishops can accomplish.Actually it’s a very good analogy – the Church Militant resembles an army in many ways. While it doesn’t have tanks and artillery, it does have a formal, authoritarian, herarchical structure, a formal doctrine, and a real mission.
It is those matters that make the analogy so good – and for proof, look at how John Paul II affected the Church with his leadership. Go from diocese to diocese – and you will see the “best” dioceses, those with more priests, more seminarians, more vibrant parishes, are the ones with bishops who lead, influence, and inspire.