We want an EF mass. The priest says we sound like schismatics

  • Thread starter Thread starter Prodigal1984
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
CilladeRoma said:
You have an EF Mass, sponsored by your diocese, about an hour away.
Why not get your 11 people to carpool there a couple of times a month, and work with that congregation, to bring one closer. I am sure many of the people who already attend drive quite a distance.
Click to expand...
Yah. I guess this could be okay.
Maybe a ridiculous question but I am not sure. If we go to the EF mass on Sunday does that fulfill our obligation or do we also have to go to OF Mass whereas going to the EF would just be an extra?
 
Well, such a priest may have his own. Server vestments are another thing.

I just offer myself at whatever mass is celebrated, preferring to keep it simple.
 
You aren’t schismatics. Pope Benedict XVI even said you and the clergy have a right to the Traditional Latin Mass.

Additionally, if the SSPX causes you confusion, look into the FSSP or ICKSP. Both are traditional latin masses without the stigma of being SSPX (ironically, if it weren’t for the SSPX, neither FSSP or ICKSP would exist)
 
Last edited:
GordonP said:
Exactly. To the pastor, and the bishop, if it doesn’t make sense in dollars and cents, then it makes no sense at all.
Click to expand...
The Church is not a business and our clergy were not ordained to think like salesmen or accountants.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
He might think his parish isn’t ready for that.

It’s a reasonable position to take. I like the Latin Mass myself, but I don’t think it’s universally good for all Catholics, nor do I think it needs to be promoted or explained to all Catholics.
Click to expand...
I can understand not all Catholics having a particular interest in, attraction to, or appreciation for the EF. But how could it not be good for all Catholics?
Tis_Bearself said:
And having a Mass “open to all” doesn’t mean much if only a dozen people show up and the pastor is thinking “for a dozen people you want me to do this?”
Click to expand...
What is being asked of this priest? He is being asked to keep the heat and lights on for an additional hour or so each week. Is that really putting anyone out?

ETA: OP, that’s a genuine question. In some parishes, this definitely would be a cost too great to bear. I assume you know your parish well enough to know whether it can afford to add another Mass.
 
Last edited:
Prodigal1984 said:
The FSSP has a Church about 2 and a half hours away. The ICKSP has one about 3 and a half hours away. Typically the SSPX has a chapel less than 20 minutes away.
Click to expand...
From what I understand, the bishops in our diocese over the years have managed to keep the SSPX OUT of our cities and towns. We have some fairly big cities in the diocese, but Chicago is not in our diocese.

I think it’s somewhat thought-provoking that your diocese has an SSPX chapel. It tells me that there are some…Catholics…who want things their way, and are willing to leave legitimate parishes to get their way, and that the bishop has had no success in driving the SSPX out of his diocese, and that parishes are probably losing members to this SSPX chapel.

It’s no wonder the alarm bells go off for your priest when he hears people talk about the Latin Mass–it’s possible that he has seen families depart his parish to head for the SSPX, and it’s heartbreaking for him.

I tend to agree with those on this thread who advise you to drive the hour. Unless you are all pretty well-off financially, a Mass for eleven people can’t happen often. Maybe a few times a year. And perhaps you think it will grow, but if the diocese is like ours, the Latin Mass parish has not seen much growth in the last 20 years. (Our Latin Mass parish is legitimate and recognized by the diocese, and the bishop occasionally offers Mass or at least prayers there.)
 
po18guy said:
We all know that the EF is the lesser used form. We know that it appeals to a select group of the faithful - for reasons both good and some not so good. (mostly good, due to its natural beauty). It was not clear - repeat: not perfectly clear over several decades - that it was still valid and legitimate.
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone ever questioned whether the EF/TLM was a valid celebration of the Mass, i.e., that the Body and Blood of Christ were confected. Many questioned the liceity, i.e., “are we allowed to do this?”. There was a school of thought among more conservative Catholics in the 1970s and early 1980s along the lines of “Rome has mandated this new form of the Mass, and we need to trust that this was the work of the Holy Spirit, put the old rite behind us, and concentrate on making this new form as reverent and as close to the rubrics as possible”. In other words, God wants us to love and embrace the “new Mass”. This school of thought can be found, among other places, in the book The Pope, The Council, and the Mass (Likoudis/Whitehead).

As it turned out, the Church eventually conceded that Quo primum (Pope St Pius V, 1570) was never abrogated, and while the OF is precisely that — the ordinary form of the Roman Rite — any priest may celebrate the EF/TLM at his discretion. No one can be called a “schismatic” simply for advocating or preferring the EF.

https://www.amazon.com/Pope-Council-Mass-Questions-Traditionalists/dp/1931018340
 
Peeps said:
Unless you are all pretty well-off financially, a Mass for eleven people can’t happen often
Click to expand...
It happens at a fair few week day Masses at Catholic churches in England. If something is spiritually beneficial for the people then that makes it worthwhile. The cost of lighting and heating (in the winter) for a hour isn’t exactly going to see a parish go broke.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
any priest may celebrate the EF/TLM at his discretion.
Click to expand...
While this is true, there are other factors that are involved. A priest may say the EF in private, whenever he so desires. Public Masses need to be approved.

In addition, A priest may not choose to celebrate an EF Mass instead a regularly scheduled OF Mass.

So, while the use of the EF has been permitted, it cannot take the place of the OF.
 
Last edited:
I have not read all the posts, so I hope I did not overlook something critical.

I would put aside (as in, ignore) any comment provided by Fish Eaters as to how many people are needed to cause any triggering of the setup of the EF. There are several ways that you can go about trying to attend the EF.

The first is that you as a group car pool to the EF where offered (an hour away). From you comments, it does not seem you are asking for an EF Mass every Sunday (or every other Sunday, or one out of three or four Sundays). Let’s talk about the trade off.

You are asking this priest to basically spend his entire afternoon to come up to your area to say the Mass, for, if I understand correctly, maybe 11 people. If he were to say Mass at 2 p.m., he is going to need to leave wherever he is by 12:30 to make it without chaos; he needs time to prepare for Mass, as well as a few minutes additional for driving time. Let’s say Mass is done by 2:45; he is highly unlikely to get out of there into his car to return home for at least half an hour - more if the group starts talking with him. Let’s give it 45 minutes after Mass - time to retire to the sacristy, time to speak with you; he is then on the road by 3:30 and at least an hour drive back; you are asking for him to spend 4 hours, if not more, for 11 people - who may or may not all show up for the Mass. And if you were kind enough to take him to dinner, he may get back home somewhere between 6 and 7 in the evening; nice to have been fed, but he has now spent 5 and a half to six and a half hours for 11 people. That borders on unconscionable, if you are expecting this on a regular basis.

You do not say if there are any other parishes nearby; but the suggestion has been made that you try to get a larger group. As Pope Benedict clearly made a choice to not determine what was a sufficient number of people, and because that is ultimately going to be up to the bishop/archbishop to determine, I am not of much help. And that is why I say above to ignore Fish Eaters as to the size; that is going to reside with the bishop. He has to find a priest (maybe this one, maybe another) to say the Mass, which also means he has to deal with Canon law as to how many Masses a priest may say in a day, as well as availability (able to say the EF).

If you only want to avail yourselves occasionally, then drive to the other parish. If you have a sufficiently large group, then the bishop can assist you in getting the Mass provided in the local area. The local pastor is not required to say the Mass; and from his comment, it would seem a waste of time to push the issue further as to having it at your parish. Get a group significantly larger, or get on the road.
 
Last edited:
Priests are becoming more cautious about the Traditionalist movement as there are some serious cancerous trends manifesting. This is being spoken about among clergy as being a very ‘grave’ development to be wary of. So don’t be too harsh on your parish Priests decision as he may not have the wherewithall to deal with problems of that nature. Here is Fr Chad Ripperger who is a very keen Traditionalist advocate and an exorcist, who is stressing the trend with much seriousness.

 
Tis_Bearself said:
40.png
gracepoole:
But how could it not be good for all Catholics?
Click to expand...
Some people are really turned off by Latin Mass for a variety of reasons. Since Latin Mass is currently an “extraordinary” option, there’s no reason to force knowledge of it on people who don’t care for it.
Click to expand...
Okay, but being turned off isn’t the same as something not being good for us. I doubt we’d be comfortable with anyone saying the OF isn’t “good” for us, because of course any valid Mass is always good for us. My understanding is that no one would be forced to attend the EF Mass the OP is asking for, but it could be a good opportunity to expose people to an option they may not even realize exists.
 
gracepoole said:
My understanding is that no one would be forced to attend the EF Mass
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t call it forced but there may be situations where the EF is your only viable option. Or an OF in another language, for that matter.
 
Last edited:
An EF may be requested by a stable group in a parish who want it. However, the Motu Proprio issued by Pope Benedict has not defined what a stable group is in terms of percentage of parishioners or actual numbers. I don’t know if this has since been clarified.
I think that Pope Benedict also stated that any priest celebrating the EF must be proficient in Latin, i.e. have a working knowledge and it is not sufficient for him simply to learn prayers etc by heart. Maybe one of the Fathers here can confirm or correct me on this.

Assuming a stable group exists and requests a qualified priest for an EF, if the priest agrees then fine it can be done. If the priest disagrees then the group has to approach the Bishop. If he agrees then he will instruct the qualified priest and it will be done. If the Bishop disagrees then the group can appeal to Rome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top