We want an EF mass. The priest says we sound like schismatics

[ProVobis]

I think that Pope Benedict also stated that any priest celebrating the EF must be proficient in Latin,

Actually Canon Law 249 states in effect all priests must already be well-versed in Latin.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Actually Canon Law 249 states in effect all priests must already be well-versed in Latin.

I’m here to tell you, they aren’t.
I actually used a brief Latin phrase in the confessional a few weeks ago and the priest (American-born) stopped me and asked what that meant. I said, “It’s Latin. Don’t priests all know Latin?” and he proceeded to explain to me in detail how he knew about 5 languages including Greek but for some reason had never learned Latin at all, so I had to explain to him what the little phrase meant.

 

[thistle]

Actually Canon Law 249 states in effect all priests must already be well-versed in Latin.

Thanks. I assume Pope Benedict was referring to that.

 

[thistle]

I’m here to tell you, they aren’t.
I actually used a brief Latin phrase in the confessional a few weeks ago and the priest (American-born) stopped me and asked what that meant. I said, “It’s Latin. Don’t priests all know Latin?” and he proceeded to explain to me in detail how he knew about 5 languages including Greek but for some reason had never learned Latin at all, so I had to explain to him what the little phrase meant.

I think it might mean priests who celebrate the EF must be well versed in Latin. If it means all priests then this canon is being breached.

You are right though about priests in general. Most I would think have no Latin knowledge. Here in the Philippines seminaries generally do not teach Latin.

 

[Fauken]

I think it might mean priests who celebrate the EF must be well versed in Latin. If it means all priests then this canon is being breached.

That doesn’t really make sense though, does it? SP didn’t come out until 2007, that canon is from the 1983 Code of Canon Law. If it’s just for priests who celebrate the EF, why wasn’t it put into SP, or the canon specially say as much?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

My understanding is that no one would be forced to attend the EF Mass

I had to chuckle at this. Every Sunday when I go to the OF, I am being “forced” to do so, as I must fulfill my obligation, and the nearest EF is two hours away. Due to family obligations and other circumstances, I can’t make that trip often.

If I had the free choice, I would never go to the OF. I would go to the EF. But I don’t have that choice. Moving isn’t an option for me.

So let me get this straight: it is a bad thing to be “forced” to go to the EF, but it is not a bad thing to be “forced” to go to the OF.

Someone please explain. Thank you.

 

[thistle]

That doesn’t really make sense though, does it? SP didn’t come out until 2007, that canon is from the 1983 Code of Canon Law. If it’s just for priests who celebrate the EF, why wasn’t it put into SP, or the canon specially say as much?

That’s true. Then it means this particular canon law is being generally ignored.

 

[Sirach2]

@Prodigal1984

I listened again to Fr. Matthew’s homily, wherein he gave the CCC’s definition of schism.

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

It is the bolded sense that I suspect your pastor was meaning when he used that word in his discussion with you. It may have occurred to him that you were denying relationship with community that celebrates the OF.

This brings up another consideration. We are not simply called to go to Mass, but to be part of the parish community as members of one another. How would this happen with you driving the hour weekly to attend the EF? Would you register anew as members there? Would you pull your membership at your present parish? IOW, where is your home, and your participation in the parish community?

 

[Sirach2]

If I had the free choice, I would never go to the OF. I would go to the EF. But I don’t have that choice. Moving isn’t an option for me.

So let me get this straight: it is a bad thing to be “forced” to go to the EF, but it is not a bad thing to be “forced” to go to the OF.

It occurred to me you might want to review the definition of schismatic as defined in the CCC, and posted above. Where is your parish home? Could it be that you are going only to avoid sin with the Third Commandment, and have no desire to be there in communion with His Body that is within the parish?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

If I had the free choice, I would never go to the OF. I would go to the EF. But I don’t have that choice. Moving isn’t an option for me.

So let me get this straight: it is a bad thing to be “forced” to go to the EF, but it is not a bad thing to be “forced” to go to the OF.

What in the world?

I have no desire to do anything outside of the unity of the Church. Present Church discipline allows for both rites, OF and EF. Preference for one or the other is not schismatic. I go to Mass, which happens to be OF only in my parish, both to fulfill the Third Commandment and, as you say, to be in communion with His Body both in the parish and the worldwide Church. If that same parish were EF only, I would do the very same thing (though, admittedly, with much more joy and satisfaction).

I would prefer to go only to the EF. That says nothing bad about the OF, it is just a preference. Many prefer the OF and would prefer never to go to the EF. If that preference is good, then isn’t the other preference just as good?

 

[Prodigal1984]

It is the bolded sense that I suspect your pastor was meaning when he used that word in his discussion with you. It may have occurred to him that you were denying relationship with community that celebrates the OF.

This brings up another consideration. We are not simply called to go to Mass, but to be part of the parish community as members of one another. How would this happen with you driving the hour weekly to attend the EF? Would you register anew as members there? Would you pull your membership at your present parish? IOW, where is your home, and your participation in the parish community?

Well this is exactly why we requested to have it at this particular parish. Six of us are actively part of the parish( lectors, extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, which I am; and also some girls in the choir) and we really aren’t looking to leave our parish or anything like that. You are right, it is a community and participation in the parish is important to keep the Church thriving. Also, when I said eleven people, this is to say this is the only amount of people who petitioned the priest, and finally had a meeting. However, there are more people in the parish who have expressed interest in this, including others from the young adult group who enjoy the EF.
Like I said, we are loyal to the Church, none of us have even considered going to this SSPX chapel. We have been doing some carpool kind of trips, but that’s the thing, we want to remain at our parish which we are involved in. I really don’t want to leave and I love the priests here, I made all of my sacraments here, I know the people and all. But something about the EF of mass just really moves me spiritually in ways I can’t quite explain. And the OF is beautiful as well, I don’t mean it like that, I just mean something about the EF, the consecration, I don’t know what it is but it almost brings me to tears, it is just so beautiful and then thinking of all of the saints who were moved by this same liturgy throughout the centuries. It is so moving.
The point is, we want to remain part of the parish. All we really are asking for is maybe two Sundays a month. And if Sunday is to much, maybe an evening during the week. We are not trying to be rude, we just want to open the parish we love to the beauty and history of the Church which the EF was around for many centuries. It created so many Saints we look up to and celebrate every day. Someone above me said something like a lot of people don’t like the EF. That’s to bad in my opinion, because that is our Catholic history. To not like it is just as bad in my opinion as someone being flagged on here for complaining about the OF. It is two forms of the same rite.

 

[Dovekin]

Not too long ago, the NeoCatechumenate was scutinized because they were developing services for their own group and so moving away from involvement in the parish. This is the fear behind the “schismatic” comment, that you are cutting yourself off from the rest of the parish in order to attend a niche mass. There are lots of groups in every parish, but it is only when a separate mass is involved that schism is feared. I am not sure why, perhaps mass should be a place where all can come together in harmony.

Though you have said repeatedly that you have a priest lined up who wants to do it, pastors are responsible for everything in the parish. He may fear being forced into playing some role that you do not anticipate, but he sees as likely. If he was in the seminary during the Council, he probably has dealt with a lot of conflict over the EF from the side of a young priest who wants to serve he Church. He may not relish those conflicts coming back. He may want to deepen your participation in his community, rather than seeking after novelties. There is a lot going on his life that centers on the Eucharist, and he may not be in a position to take on more, or to want to go in the direction you are pointing.

 

[Prodigal1984]

I would prefer to go only to the EF. That says nothing bad about the OF, it is just a preference. Many prefer the OF and would prefer never to go to the EF. If that preference is good, then isn’t the other preference just as good?

That’s actually a good point. There does seem to be some hypocrisy now that I think of it.

 

[Sirach2]

This is good to hear. However, I was taken back by your wording “I would never go to the OF” and the implication that one is forced to go to the OF by default, led me to believe you had another spirit at work in your heart. Only you know your intentions as you participate in the liturgy, and God alone is present therein. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Prodigal1984]

This is good to hear. However, I was taken back by your wording “I would never go to the OF” and the implication that one is forced to go to the OF by default, led me to believe you had another spirit at work in your heart. Only you know your intentions as you participate in the liturgy, and God alone is present therein. Thank you for clarifying.

I think for me anyways, that the OF and EF should coexist without quarrels. Both are beautiful and both are valid. I would however say that people especially younger who never have experienced it should at least be introduced to it. I went 30 years without ever experiencing it and I wish I was when I was a kid! It is our history as Catholics. It is sad that some people don’t even know what it is honestly.

 

[Sirach2]

Very nice response, and I was very glad to read it. May God bless you.

 

[Sirach2]

I had to chuckle at this. Every Sunday when I go to the OF, I am being “forced” to do so, as I must fulfill my obligation, and the nearest EF is two hours away.

Someone above made it sound like it shouldn’t be forced on anyone. What does that mean? That what millenia of Catholics knew and were devoted too should not be forced on anyone as if it is dangerous?

Just a point of correction. I think the poster was referring to being forced to attend the OF, not the EF.

 

[Emeraldlady]

That what millenia of Catholics knew and were devoted too should not be forced on anyone as if it is dangerous?

It’s not that Latin is dangerous. It’s just that in todays Christian world it is not universal or traditional. What western Europeans behold as traditional to their spirituality, is far removed from what the missionaries encountered in colonising and evangelising the new world, deep into Africa and far East Asia and the antipodes. Trying to force a specifically traditional European view of spiritual beauty into the ‘norm’ is just not realistic.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I had to chuckle at this. Every Sunday when I go to the OF, I am being “forced” to do so , as I must fulfill my obligation, and the nearest EF is two hours away.

That is true. I am “forced” to go to the OF because that is all I have available to me. I cannot make a seven-hour round trip every Sunday (two hours there, two hours back, the Mass itself, time for meals and breaks on the road, and almost an entire tank of gas on the limited income of a retiree, not to mention the family obligations I referred to above). That says nothing negative about the OF whatsoever. In fact, I recently attended an OF Mass at the church where I normally attend the EF (it is an Adoremus-friendly parish where both rites are offered), simply because I had to pick my son up at the airport in that city on Saturday and that was the only Mass I could get to without staying overnight. He had his cap set on coming home that night and hotel rooms aren’t cheap anymore (at least nowhere you’d want to stay overnight).

 

[ProVobis]

It’s just that in todays Christian world it is not universal or traditional.

But it isn’t called the Latin Rite for nothing, even though barbaric Germanic languages are allowed now.