We want an EF mass. The priest says we sound like schismatics

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Brendan_64 said:
It happens at a fair few week day Masses at Catholic churches in England. If something is spiritually beneficial for the people then that makes it worthwhile. The cost of lighting and heating (in the winter) for a hour isn’t exactly going to see a parish go broke.
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Lovely.

But this isn’t England, it’s the U.S. Masses are generally not said during the day except in the large cities. People are working, unless they are retired, and the group that the OP is describing in this thread does not sound like retired folk.

Our parish offers two daily Masses–6:30 a.m. and 8:30 a.m… The 6:30 a.m. Mass generally has a a smattering of younger people, but many of us can’t make this Mass because our workday starts at 7:00 a.m., and we wouldn’t be able to make it on time.

The 8:30 a.m. is almost exclusively older folk, and on certain days of the week, the parish school children and faculty.

And that’s the norm for the parishes in our area. A few of the parishes only have one daily Mass (generally at 7:00 a.m.).

The Latin Mass parish does have a noon time Mass, but it is sparsely attended, again, because people work, and this parish is located downtown, where most people do not work.

I’m not trying to be a wet blanket, but just trying to let you know how things are here in the U.S. for most of us.
 
Prodigal1984 said:
we just want to open the parish we love to the beauty and history of the Church which the EF was around for many centuries. It created so many Saints we look up to and celebrate every day. Someone above me said something like a lot of people don’t like the EF . That’s to bad in my opinion, because that is our Catholic history. To not like it is just as bad in my opinion as someone being flagged on here for complaining about the OF. It is two forms of the same rite.
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If this is your goal, would it be possible to organize a bus (or van caravan) to take parishioners to the Latin Mass in the parish one hour away–a “field trip”.

Perhaps during the bus (or van) ride, reading material could be distributed explaining the Latin Mass and describing what people will hear and see. The Missal could be passed out, and the correct page indicated (hopefully the Missal has the translation into the language that most of the parishioners speak).

In other words, this “field trip” would not only be a visit to the Latin Mass, but an educational experience, too.

And this would expose your fellow parishioners to the Latin Mass, thus accomplishing your goal, but without asking your priest to arrange something in your parish.

I think this would be really interesting and useful.

BTW, I don’t like the EF Mass. I appreciate that it is part of Christian Church history, and I’m glad that it is available for people who love it. But I don’t like anything that I can’t understand. I don’t like foreign films, I don’t like singing songs in a foreign language (other than perhaps Kum Ba Yah!), I don’t like poetry that isn’t in English. I like my own language, and I like to understand everything that is being said or sung or written.
 
Prodigal1984 said:
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po18guy:
Since his masses are just as valid, do not begrudge him that he will not flex to each and every request. Would you want him to celebrate if his heart was not in it?
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Again. We are not asking him to be the priest who says the Mass…
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1st I often attend a FSSP mass as much as possible. So I love the Latin mass (I like a good OF mass too) and I’m sympathetic to your cause.

However, I’m a little confused now. While I agree that his response is a little problematic- why are you trying to get this particular priest to approve it?

If he’s not the one to pray it, why contact him?

You would be best to work with the local Latin Society in your diocese to help organize people who are interested in the Latin Mass, determine demand, and work with the Diocese to find a priest & home.

While any priest can pray the EF as a private mass, priests are limited in regards to the number of Masses they can pray a day.

Also, there are MANY pastors who don’t even want the Spanish Mass at their parish, let along a Latin Mass.

REASON: some pastors believe that when you offer mass in more than one language, it creates a “parish within a parish.”

Some priests are ok with this and others are not. I know a pastor who knows Spanish but refuses to allow the Spanish mass at his parish more than once a month because he wants them attending the English mass and integrating with the rest of Parish.

He also specifically schedules his Spanish mass at the same time as another monthly Spanish mass so Spanish speakers don’t attend the other parish which is only 1 mile down the road for a 2nd mass.

So there are a large number of Baby Boomer priests who feel the same way, ESP in dioceses that used to have lots of “National Parishes.”

To me, the real answer is Latin mass personal Parishes or Mission Parishes (like one in the Midwest that offers the Latin Mass, Anglican Use Mass, another “niche” communities.

For example: Holy Rosary in Indianapolis started as Ann Italian “national parish (personal parish) http://www.holyrosaryindy.org

Today, it is a personal parish with 3 distinct communities. The Italian community who celebrates the Ordinary Form in English (with a dedication to Italian devotions), the Latin Mass community (some of which are Italian), and the Anglican Use community.

So it’s really like 3 personal Parishes using one Church building.

But this is FINE for a personal parish. But many territorial parish priests don’t like it. Yes, some do, but many don’t.

So while this priest may not have said the best thing, I think the best answer is to have a personal parish dedicated to the Latin mass or a Personal parish like Holy Rosary or even the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius
https://www.canons-regular.org/

So contact your local Latin mass society and work with them.

God Bless and good luck
 
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Peeps said:
People are working, unless they are retired, and the group that the OP is describing in this thread does not sound like retired folk.
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An evening Mass on a day during the week?
 
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Brendan_64 said:
The cost of lighting and heating (in the winter) for a hour isn’t exactly going to see a parish go broke.
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Completely off topic, about heating costs :

In my neck of the woods, I know of at least one parish where this happened (going broke because of the costs of heating). Huge 1960s building, badly insulated, daily masses, two to three funerals a week, a small, aging and not particularly well-to-do community.

Now daily masses are said in a room in the parish building. Last time I went there, it was for a mass offered for the ecumenical catechesis. It was February (February in the heart of the Swiss Jura range means negative temperatures), it lasted one hour and half, there were lots of little children, and no heating. The parish couldn’t afford it.

The thing is, if you live somewhere cold in winter and want heating to be effective, you don’t just turn it on when mass begins. You turn it on two to four hours earlier, and leave it on. (Sometimes it is the whole preceding night, if there is a particularly bad cold spell).

At a winter funeral in another church the sacristan told me that heating the building just for that hour’s ceremony costed about as much as heating his own flat for one month.

Thus endeth my rant about heating costs 😅

ETA that I checked on my own parish’s budget, and building-related costs (maintenance and heating) are by far the biggest expense, two times as much as administrative costs, and ten times as much as services and worship related costs.
 
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This does not mean that they have been trained in the EF Mass. The Mass is more than just read this do that, it takes training and practice.

Heck, I am literate in Latin. The 8th graders in our school Latin class are well-versed.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Would you point me to the laws on this? Perhaps this is a rule your Bishop has in place?
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I think what he means is that the priest can’t just decide to celebrate the EF at a regular scheduled OF Mass. Even in Summorum Pontificum it says that the people attending must be aware and on their own will attend the sacrifice of the Mass in this Form. So generally speaking, if a diocese has a EF Mass it should explicitly be scheduled as such in the bulletin and promoted as such as the mass being done at that time. Of course this isn’t the case in a church that is exclusively the EF run by the FSSP or ICKSP etc.
 
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Yes, this is what I meant.
The OF is the ordinary form of the Mass and cannot be replaced by an EF at the priests whim.
And for the record, I am a she.
 
CilladeRoma said:
The OF is the ordinary form of the Mass and cannot be replaced by an EF at the priests whim
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Are you sure about that? I’m not saying that it would be advisable to do so and surprise the people attending, but I’m not sure that the priest isn’t free to celebrate the Mass in either form if he wishes to. After all both forms of the Mass are equal, and no formula given a higher status over the other by the Church.
 
Mass intentions are printed in the parish bulletin. Suppose a family member scheduled a mass for their deceased loved one and it is listed in the bulletin. This person comes to mass, and surprise! The priest celebrates on his own initiative an EF mass. That’s a no-no.
 
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Peeps said:
BTW, I don’t like the EF Mass. I appreciate that it is part of Christian Church history, and I’m glad that it is available for people who love it. But I don’t like anything that I can’t understand. I don’t like foreign films, I don’t like singing songs in a foreign language (other than perhaps Kum Ba Yah!), I don’t like poetry that isn’t in English. I like my own language, and I like to understand everything that is being said or sung or written.
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Why include this? How does your dislike of any language other than English impact the OP’s question?
 
Sirach2 said:
Mass intentions are printed in the parish bulletin. Suppose a family member scheduled a mass for their deceased loved one and it is listed in the bulletin. This person comes to mass, and surprise! The priest celebrates on his own initiative an EF mass. That’s a no-no.
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I’m not saying it would necessarily be an advisable thing to do, but that doesn’t mean that the priest would not be free to do so if he chose to. When you ask for a Mass to be offered for an intention, you do not have control over what form the Mass is or how it is said. Just because it might not be prudent for a priest to do so doesn’t mean that he couldn’t do so. In terms of what happens regarding the Mass (and most other things in the parish, but particularly the Mass) is not down to the wishes of the laity, but solely down to the priest. The Church is not a democracy.

Personally if I turned up at any Mass in my parish to find that the Mass was being celebrated in the Extraordinary Form, I would be delighted. But I recognise that I am perhaps not representative of most people in my parish on such matters (but is anyone?).
 
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Brendan_64 said:
I’m not saying it would necessarily be an advisable thing to do, but that doesn’t mean that the priest would not be free to do so if he chose to.
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This is a misstated conclusion that is not in accord with Universae Ecclesiae which gives further instruction on implementing Summorum Pontificum.

Your statement is correct, but applies only when he celebrates sine populo (without the people).
  1. The faculty to celebrate sine populo (or with the participation of only one minister) in the forma extraordinaria of the Roman Rite is given by the Motu Proprio to all priests, whether secular or religious (cf. Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, art. 2). For such celebrations therefore, priests, by provision of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, do not require any special permission from their Ordinaries or superiors.
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Furthermore, the document has information that would be especially meaningful to the OP. @Prodigal1984
  1. In the case of a priest who presents himself occasionally in a parish church or an oratory with some faithful, and wishes to celebrate in the forma extraordinaria, as foreseen by articles 2 and 4 of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, the pastor or rector of the church, or the priest responsible, is to permit such a celebration, while respecting the schedule of liturgical celebrations in that same church.
  2. § 1. In deciding individual cases, the pastor or the rector, or the priest responsible for a church, is to be guided by his own prudence, motivated by pastoral zeal and a spirit of generous welcome.
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It doesn’t mean a priest can’t drop an OF Mass for lack of attendance. Just sayin’

They’re doing it all the time in my neck of the woods.
 
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