Wealth and Catholic teaching

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Maybe 1 Timothy 6:10 will help:
For the desire more money is the root of all evils; which some coveting have erred from the faith, and have entangled themselves in many sorrows.
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Please read #2535-#2537 of the Catechism:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a0.htm#2536

Money itself is not evil. It is the inordinate desire for it that is. Most people will not have a lot of money. However, this doesn’t mean that the poor are necessarly better off than the rich.

For example, a poor man may envy the rich man and greatly desire to be rich. His goal in life may be the accumlation of wealth. However, the rich man may scarecly be concerned about his money. He puts his trust in God to provide for him in all things and is very charitable with his money knowing that all he has is a gift from God and could be taken away at any moment. Therefore, his joy is not in his wealth but in God and would be content to live the life of the poor man since his joy doesn’t come from wealth but from God. In this example the rich man would have an easier time entering into the Kingdom of Heaven than the poor man.

Attachments to things of this world are what prevent us growing closer to God. While the more we have of something (such as money), the more likely we probably are to be attached to it the mere possession of such things are not evil. It is not wrong to want a few extra bucks. However, when the desire for money equals or overtakes the desire for God and idol has been made out of money.

We should take to heart Matthew 6:33 and seek first the Kingdom of God and then trust that by doing God’s Will what is best for us will be provided to us.
 
to conteplative
well, I’m sure each of us could name at least 10 good rich people and at least 10 bad rich people.
But I thought we were discussing the meaning of a Bible quote. The idea is not to condemn or justify anyone. I hoped someone could find passages that would explain the one I mentioned or even passages speaking to the contrary. Perhaps someone knows any authoritative teaching of the Catholic church in that regard, such as the Pope’s words.
Success stories are nice, but it’s kind of hard to argue with the Bible using our subjective judgement about people we like or dislike. And public opinion is not useful here either.
 
Parable of the Talents

Matthew 25:14 For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey. 16 Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents. 17 In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more. 18 But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20 The one who had received the five talents came up and brought five more talents, saying, "Master, you entrusted five talents to me. See, I have gained five more talents.’ 21 His master said to him, "Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ 22 Also the one who had received the two talents came up and said, "Master, you entrusted two talents to me. See, I have gained two more talents.’ 23 His master said to him, "Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.’ 24 And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, "Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. 25 "And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’ 26 But his master answered and said to him, "You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed. 27 "Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest. 28 "Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.’ 29 For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (NASB)
 
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vytautas:
to conteplative
well, I’m sure each of us could name at least 10 good rich people and at least 10 bad rich people.
But I thought we were discussing the meaning of a Bible quote. The idea is not to condemn or justify anyone. I hoped someone could find passages that would explain the one I mentioned or even passages speaking to the contrary. Perhaps someone knows any authoritative teaching of the Catholic church in that regard, such as the Pope’s words.
Success stories are nice, but it’s kind of hard to argue with the Bible using our subjective judgement about people we like or dislike. And public opinion is not useful here either.
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Hello anybody?

Do you have a Bible quote that paraphrases ‘actions speak louder than words’?

Please share :blessyou:
 
contemplative said:
:yup: Yup

Wegmans Tops Fortune’s Best-Employer List
ROCHESTER, N.Y. Jan 10, 2005 — Wegmans Food Markets, a grocery chain whose motto is “employees first, customers second,” topped Fortune’s eighth annual list of the best 100 companies to work for in America, the magazine said Monday.

There is a thread here on CA Forums about this Food Chain
Have you ever been to Wegmans?

The founders of this food chain are wealthy and hardworking Cradle Catholics. Not only have they been on Fortune’s Best-Employer list but they donate $$$$$ to the Church and Catholic schools and many other needy.

How could Danny Wegman be wrong for being the hard-working business man that he is ???..look at all he does for so many people…including me…the quality of life in my home is better because of the great products he offers in his stores.
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My former pastor had a thing about “big houses” and would frequently disparagingly mention them in his sermons. He and I had this dialog:

“I have a big house, Father. Should I have given that money to poor people instead?”

He hemmed and hawed and finally said, “Well, yes, it would have been better.”

“But, Father – that’s exactly what I did!! I gave the money to some poor people and they built me a house!”

He didn’t have a reply to that, and I went on, “And those poor people had the dignity of earning their living, instead of the shame of relying on charity.”

He still didn’t answer and I continued, “And one of the young men who worked on the house told me how glad he was for the chance – he got to work with two master builders and learned a lot more about the trade. So I’ve helped him become self-supporting from now on.”

There were no more sermons about "big houses."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
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vytautas:
to awalt:

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say something like that: it’s fine to be rich, fine to accumulate wealth, as long as you do it in a proper way and give charity and pay you employees well. nothing like that.
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Jesus apparently had friends that were both rich and poor. The Joseph that bought the tomb for Jesus was, from what I understand, wealthy. So, Jesus did not automatically condemn being rich.
 
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deb1:
Jesus apparently had friends that were both rich and poor. The Joseph that bought the tomb for Jesus was, from what I understand, wealthy. So, Jesus did not automatically condemn being rich.
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I don’t know about that…I bet ( just a hunch ) that as soon as Jesus left the tomb he went directly to Joseph of Arimathea and had a word with him. 😉
 
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Prodigal_Son:
Read the next verses: "And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: ‘Who then can be saved?’ And Jesus beholding, said to them: ‘With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible.’ "

I feel that Jesus’ teaching in this points to the concept of purgatory. God can save whom He chooses, but we won’t all be “ready” for heaven. Rich people “can’t take it with them” – they have to be purified of all the pride of earthly wealth, before they enter the heavenly kingdom.

I agree that riches are *very *problematic. But with God all things are possible.

The rich young man may be in heaven now, but he had to face the shame that he met Jesus, and rejected Him. What an awful feeling.
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I was told once that the disciples shock was due to the fact that many people at the time believed that God would reward the Good on earth. So, being rich was a sign of favor from God.
 
vern humphrey said:
“I have a big house, Father. Should I have given that money to poor people instead?”
He hemmed and hawed and finally said, “Well, yes, it would have been better.”
“But, Father – that’s exactly what I did!! I gave the money to some poor people and they built me a house!”
He didn’t have a reply to that, and I went on, “And those poor people had the dignity of earning their living, instead of the shame of relying on charity.”
He still didn’t answer and I continued, “And one of the young men who worked on the house told me how glad he was for the chance – he got to work with two master builders and learned a lot more about the trade. So I’ve helped him become self-supporting from now on.”
There were no more sermons about "big houses."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
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:amen: This is a point all too often buried in the bickering and class conflicts between the haves/employers and the wanna-haves/employees. Somewhere in the mix it is forgotten that the employer-owner has put in many hours, personal effort, risk–and if successful, provides a means to earn a living for his/her employees. I think another danger in this equasion is the riot of covetousness that can infect those who feel entitled to share in the same level of success as their neighbor without putting forth the same level of effort. Clearly there is corruption and abuse in the sytem–but the 9th Commandment has been around for a long time with good reason.
 
Island Oak said:
:amen: This is a point all too often buried in the bickering and class conflicts between the haves/employers and the wanna-haves/employees. Somewhere in the mix it is forgotten that the employer-owner has put in many hours, personal effort, risk–and if successful, provides a means to earn a living for his/her employees. I think another danger in this equasion is the riot of covetousness that can infect those who feel entitled to share in the same level of success as their neighbor without putting forth the same level of effort. Clearly there is corruption and abuse in the sytem–but the 9th Commandment has been around for a long time with good reason.
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The 9th commandment is “Thou shalt not covet.” It is not “Thou shalt not earn, save, and invest.”

There has to be a reason for that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
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contemplative:
…and sepulchral in behavior…
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I’ve often thought that foisting them off on us was the dirtiest trick the English ever pulled.

When I taught American History, I always pointed out that most people came to America for economic opportunity. And someone would always say the Puritans came for religious freedom.

Then I would explain the Puritans came not to find religious freedom but to establish a religious tyranny – which would segue right into why Rhode Island was established.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
 
Island Oak:
I think another danger in this equasion is the riot of covetousness that can infect those who feel entitled to share in the same level of success as their neighbor without putting forth the same level of effort.
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Not to take anything away from the employers who provide jobs (and let’s face it, without employers, we would all have to be 100% self-sufficient – not easy when you don’t own a lot of farmland), but I think it is also dangerous to assume that people who have less are automatically in that situation because they don’t work hard.

Many people put in plenty of effort, and have less simply because they are in jobs (which they may love) that pay less. Nor are those folks necessarily covetous of their richer (money-wise) brethren.

Maybe this is a small, picky point, but I just don’t like to see the assumption that “works hard” = “rich”, or “less rich” = “doesn’t hard work & is envious”. I don’t think those are good assumptions. 🙂

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I have worked full time since I was 16…at not so great jobs. Some were ok…but I have never had enough money to pay all the bills. Am I couvetous of my richer neighbor? No, though I have to make sure I do not fall into the thoughts that may arise. I do not begrudge anyone their money…but just because I am barely making it does NOT mean I have not worked as hard as the person who has the money.
 
Equating working hard with being rich is an attempt by some of the rich to belittle and humiliate those who have not been so lucky and sucessful. In my country, where prices are almost the US level, a doctor earns 300-500 in US dollars. A teacher about the same. Policmen too. Just examples.
Now, is my cousin, having completed the most rigorous medical education, working in the emergfency room, saving people every day, not working enough.? Most doctors are poor. There are some who are rich. They take bribes. You can bribe a doctor, if you are rich, then you receive better care at the expense of those who don’t bribe… Just an example.

In the 1940s and 1950s many people were exiled from my country by Soviet authorities to Siberia. All their property taken away. When they returned, if they survived, they had nothing, no home, no savings, nothing. No health left. No access to good education, no chance to take a high ranking post because you were exiled, it’s like a criminal record. For several decades they remained poor. Hard workers, families of five people living in one-room appartments. Their hard work could do little to improve their situation.
In the meantime, crooked Communist Party officials enjoyed luxurious abundant life, truly “awarded by God” for their hard work of persecuting innocent people, collaboration with the occupants, hypocricy and flexible conscience. Actually, most of them continue to be wealthy now, having adapted very quickly to the new capitalist system.

I think being rich has to do more with the succesful choice occupation (e.g. don’t be teacher, for instance, you’ll be poor), with the opportunities that your society and the status of your family give you, and also with luck, than with hard working. Though i admitt, hard work may be an element in certain circumstances.
 
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vytautas:
I think being rich has to do more with the succesful choice occupation (e.g. don’t be teacher, for instance, you’ll be poor), with the opportunities that your society and the status of your family give you, and also with luck, than with hard working. Though i admitt, hard work may be an element in certain circumstances.
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I disagree with you here. I have two children. Each have had equal opportunity to money, household allowances and spending and saving opportunities…equal…equal…equal…all of the way. One has $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the bank and the other has $ in the bank. Much has to do with lifestyle choices and spending and savings habits.
 
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CarolAnnSFO:
Not to take anything away from the employers who provide jobs (and let’s face it, without employers, we would all have to be 100% self-sufficient – not easy when you don’t own a lot of farmland), but I think it is also dangerous to assume that people who have less are automatically in that situation because they don’t work hard.

Many people put in plenty of effort, and have less simply because they are in jobs (which they may love) that pay less. Nor are those folks necessarily covetous of their richer (money-wise) brethren.
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People, by and large, are in the situations they are in because of their own choices.
  • It is a choice to drop out of school.
  • It is a choice to take drugs.
  • It is a choice to have sex out of marriage.
  • It is a choice to get divorced.
People who make those choices have no right to demand the same rewards as people who make the opposite choices. People who choose a job that doesn’t pay well, but which they “love” have no right to demand that others make up the financial difference – they are taking part of their pay in “love.”

I chose to make the Army a career. I loved it. I don’t have any right to say, “Hey, I had a lot of fun, and a wonderful life, but I didn’t make as much money as you did – so hand it over.”

CarolAnnSFO said:
[/Maybe this is a small, picky point, but I just don’t like to see the assumption that “works hard” = “rich”, or “less rich” = “doesn’t hard work & is envious”. I don’t think those are good assumptions.
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I see a lot of people right here who enter the lists with the assumption that the “rich” are “sinners” and have somehow gotten what they have unfairly.

At the same time, I can take you through the Ozarks and show you people who chose to:
  • Drop out of school.
  • Took drugs.
  • Had sex out of marriage.
  • Got divorced.
and who are convinced all their misfortunes are someone else’s fault.
[/quote]
 
to vern humphrey,

the problem with your judgment about other people in this discussion is that you assume that whoever casts a slightest doubt on the “morality” and “goodness” of wealth, is envious: he wants the money the rich people have, he wants to take it away from them, he’s a lazy sinful loser etc. etc.

But you miss the point. The whole idea of this discussion is whether being rich is good for a person - spiritually, for one’s soul. If someone believes it’s not good, why would he want to take the riches of other people??? That would be illogical. It’s not a discussion about “just” distribution of wealth and seeking “social justice”

The numerous saints that chose poverty did not envy. They though poverty was good for them. So did Christ and his followers. Whether today’s people should follow their example, is the point of the discussion.
 
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