Wealth and Catholic teaching

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My grandfather God rest his soul always said to me as a child, " your health is your wealth" I never forgot that statement.

I don’t think being rich per-se is evil, it’s what we do with it that probably is, are we like the young rich man, the king and Lazarus, or are we like the widow who only gave a penny, and Jesus pointed out to the apostles, that she had given more, because she gave all she had.
And as a priest said on EWTN " the Bible doesn’t say money is the root of all evil, he said, " the love of money is the root of all evil".
 
“I don’t know why Jesus said rich people won’t go to heaven” -vytautas

He didnt say that.

He said it was harder for a rich person to get to heaven.

The rich young man could have followed Jesus if he was PREPARED to give up his wealth.

In other words, if there was nothing in this world which would prevent him from following Christ.

The wealthy find it harder to enter heaven because of their particular weakness, but it neednt be money that prevents you from following.

The wealthy young mans love of money was greater than His love of God.
 
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vytautas:
Hi everyone,

Maybe you could help me with an answer to my question about money and our faith.
I would like to receive a comment on the following quote from the Bible:
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”

I have submitted this question to a numer of Catholic Q and A’s and forums but never received an answer. Money and Christianity is a subject that is avoided in the free market capitalist world.
To me every possible interpretation of the quote is simple: rich people won’t go to heaven. Beacause they have even less chances to get there than the camel to pass through the eye of a needle. Less than zero.

How can we reconcile that with capitalism, which is based on accumulation of wealth? Why doesn’t the Church tell rich people and those who dovete their lives to money making that their souls are in danger?

Thanx, Vytas
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I think your question is very valid and important and I thought I would take a chance at responding to it even though some have had enough of this thread.

Two other passages from scripture I think have much to offer here. The story of the man who had a great harvest and decided to store it all up and take life easy. The problem was he died that night.

Also the story of the dishonest steward. After telling it Jesus tells us to use the goods of this world to make friends so that when the material goods fail us, we will still have a lasting reception.

I think both of these stories make the same point: The problem with being rich is the fact that, no matter how we attained that wealth there is a great temptation to find lasting security in that wealth. The fact is that wealth can never and will never provide lasting security. People who are poor but who strive for wealth as though they will get lasting security are suffering from the same delusion.

It is a difficult delusion to break free of. May we all have plenty of wealth but may we never be possessed by our possessions.

peace

-Jim
 
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StephanieC:
Jesus is not saying that a rich man can never enter heaven. He is saying that first the man must unburden himself of his riches. The man should be so eager to pass through the eye of the needle into heaven that he wouldn’t think twice about letting go of his riches. Or, first the man must begin the laborious process of cutting his attachment to his possessions in order to gain heaven.
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I believe that this is the key to unlocking the needle’s opening. The parable is about detachment. And it is about reality. For, when we are burdened down with much responsibility, or stuff, or self-importance (in another word “riches”) it truly IS harder to just walk away from it all and follow Christ. Rather, we tend to worry about what we have and divide our interests. Jesus is challenging the hearer to give everything over to him and allow him to take care of the rest, rather than trusting or having confidence in our accumulated “personal wealth”.
 
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vytautas:
to StephanieC
I’ve heard people mentioning this idea, that it means gate to jerusalem, but no authoritative source on that. I doubt this is honest interpretation. It’s just speculation. The phrase does not appear with capital first letters or quotation marks. Why believe it should mean something else than the eye of a needle.
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One reason is to understand that the “needle” with which you are familiar, that small metal item with a tiny hole through which thread is passed; won’t exist until about five centuries after the statement is made.

Sewing has existed in one form or another has existed for about 20,000 years, but it when Christ makes this statement the people he made it to would not have recognized the “needle” that your thinking of or anything like it.

When reading the bible context is always important.
 
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vytautas:
to MommaKat
"The eye of a needle is a gate into the Jerusalem which is smaller than the main gate. A camel would have to crawl on it’s knee’s to get into the city. "

Now, where does that come from?🙂 Who told you that?
I have read this passage in several languages, and nowhere you could get the idea that it is some gate in jerusalem. The eye of a needle is the eye of a needle.

Besides, as I said, Jesus’ attitude on wealth in the Bible is very clear from many passages. The fact that Catholic church created capitalism as you said, does not deny what Jesus says.
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Have you been to Isreal? Father Mitch Pacwa has shone the eye of the needle on his program on the Holy Land. It was is closed in now a gate to get into the city after the main gate was closed for the day.
Luke uses the term for a surgical needle and Matthew and Mark use the term for a sewing needle. If you want to ask some one EWTN has a question and answer session on the radio at 3:00pm EST that you can listen on the computer. They also take call to answer.
 
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vytautas:
by the way,
I doubt if JP II ever condemned the ideals of social justice and solidarity.
Whereas, on numerous occassions he critisized greed-driven lifestyle, materialism and social unjustice.
Obviously he did not side with any ideology. A pope is not a politician , after all.
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Unfortunately you are suffering from an affliction common amongst many Catholics in that you seem to equate “social justice” with socialism which is completely incompatible with Catholic teachings.

JPII like many popes before him when writing about social justice is discussing something much different than what many left leaning “Catholics” like to pretend. Indeed in those writings and discussions he, they, have always taken great pains to warn against promoting or using “evil” methods and means in pursuit of social justice. A good example of this might be the Social Security System in the US: a system originally setup as an insurance program to guard against poverty in old age (a noble end) but eventually became an entitlement program that is funded by taking the earnings of the poor (denying a person the product of their labor) and giving it to people who today overwhelming don’t need the money to stay out of poverty, a large percentage of which are amongst the wealthiest in the nation.

Many Catholics erroneously see Social Security as embodying the ideas of Catholic social justice, but how could any system that takes 7.5% of every poor person’s paycheck so a billionaire like George Soros can continue to receive a montly check be just by Catholic standards?

Socialism embraces several ideas that can not co-exist with a properly formed Catholic understanding of social justice. So while you’re right that JPII wasn’t a politician and didn’t side with any one particular ideology, he and the church have specifically prohibited adoption of certain ideologies, socialism and communism to name two.

“No one can be at the same time a sincere Catholic and socialist.” Pius XI - Quadragesimo anno 1931
 
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MommaKat:
The free market system is a creation of the Catholic Church.
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I’ve never heard this before. Could someone please explain this reference or point me to where I could find this info?

Joe B
 
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jeromelives:
One reason is to understand that the “needle” with which you are familiar, that small metal item with a tiny hole through which thread is passed; won’t exist until about five centuries after the statement is made.
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Opps! Sorry, mistyped… the should be fifteen centuries after the statement is made.

The first “eyed” sewing needles are invented in the 1500’s
 
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JButky:
I’ve never heard this before. Could someone please explain this reference or point me to where I could find this info?

Joe B
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I don’t think anyone can claim the invention of an idea persay…

Still the Catholic Church establishes in it’s teachings several ideas that are unique to Christianity and key elements of capitalism.

The inherent value of the individual, the right of that individual to benefit from their own labor and the right to own private property are all part of the idea of Catholic human rights and the foundations of capitialism.

Prior to the Church declaring these rights every other religion and social/political system assumes that people are born into certain classes/castes some of which exist merely to serve and enhance the material needs of others.
 
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jeromelives:
The inherent value of the individual, the right of that individual to benefit from their own labor and the right to own private property are all part of the idea of Catholic human rights and the foundations of capitialism.

Prior to the Church declaring these rights every other religion and social/political system assumes that people are born into certain classes/castes some of which exist merely to serve and enhance the material needs of others.
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And socialism is the ultimate expression of that idea – we are all ants, serving the nest. Theodore H. White’s alegory of the ants in “The Once and Future King” is an excellent illustration of socialism in action.
 
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jeromelives:
Still the Catholic Church establishes in it’s teachings several ideas that are unique to Christianity and key elements of capitalism.
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It does? (confusion) I’m trying to picture Jesus as a capitalist or the Apostles actions in ACTS as Capitalistic.

I don’t think it is wise to compare anything in Christianity to any sort of Man’s governance systems. These are all man-made approaches to deal with the reality of the consequence of Original sin.

As a result, none is perfect. The perfect governance we hope for is a Kingdom which has nothing to do with capitalism. Although capitalism, respects the individual’s rights (at least in theory, and not always in practice due to imperfection).

While it (capitalism) may be better than other systems, the observation that some of what Catholicism teaches identifies some elements found in the economic or philosophic tenants of capitalism is a HUGE difference from saying the Church invented, endorsed, or created it.

Equating two separate things and associating them together because of a loose affiliation of a similar concept fosters gross injustice to the understanding of both capitalism and Catholicism.

Joe B
 
Just today I was listening to Dr. Marcellino D’Ambrosio’s talk on Greed from his audio series “The Seven Deadly Sins” (3 CD set). His perspective was that money itself is not intrinsically evil-- it’s how you perceive money and how you get it and use it that determines the good or evil in it. He gave the example of Bishop Fulton Sheen who earned millions of dollars in royalties in his lifetime but he also gave millions to charity (and is currently in the canonization process). I highly recommend D’Ambrosio’s resources which can be found on his site DrItaly.com.

Concerning the “eye of the needle” passage, I think that if you look at the context, Christ is not saying that it is impossible for the rich to enter heaven but he is saying that it is very difficult and then only with God’s help. Also, along with the theory of the needle meaning a small or narrow gate, as posted above, some scholars think that Christ is using hyperbole similar to the removing of the beam from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother’s eye. Other scholars note that the Aramaic word for camel is the same word used for rope, made from camel hair. Regardless of the theory you subscribe to, the point is about the difficulty raher that the impossibility of the rich attaining heaven.
 
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JButky:
It does? (confusion) I’m trying to picture Jesus as a capitalist or the Apostles actions in ACTS as Capitalistic.
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Really? You can’t picture Christ encouraging people to work hard, create and provide for themselves and their families?

That is after all the central tenate of capitialism and free markets.
 
all things are possible with God… anyone can go to heaven…

Lot was rich and he was said to be perfect… Abraham was rich…

what you have on earth, has nothing to do with what you will
receive in heaven…

years ago, a baptist minister related the story about the ‘eye
of the needle’ being a gate into Jerusalem that a camel had
to crawl thru, meaning that a rich person has to humble himself
to get into heaven… makes sense, but that doesn’t mean it’s
based in fact… lol

in fact, i don’t believe it is… but, i’m not sure…

🙂
 
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jeromelives:
Really? You can’t picture Christ encouraging people to work hard, create and provide for themselves and their families?
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Not really. Not that I think Jesus would have preached the opposite; it’s just that I don’t picture Him having had that particular focus to His ministry. I think of Jesus’ encouragements more in terms of the beatitudes.

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
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jeromelives:
Really? You can’t picture Christ encouraging people to work hard, create and provide for themselves and their families?

That is after all the central tenate of capitialism and free markets.
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No. I can picture Christ encouraging people to work hard in providing for the Kingdom of God (which includes their families)… And Man doesn’t create anything.

While capitalism respects the individuals rights (in theory), it is geared towards one’s self and one’s own, not to another.

“Love your enemies” has nothing to do with capitalism.

While capitalism is not all bad and has some merits vis a vis Christianity, it also has it’s flaws when compared in that light. Your description illuminates some of the dangers inherent in a capitalistic system.

Joe B
 
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jeromelives:
Really? You can’t picture Christ encouraging people to work hard, create and provide for themselves and their families?

That is after all the central tenate of capitialism and free markets.
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The central tenate of capitalism is that by furthering your own self interest, you further society’s. However, when you have cases such as enron and tyco, one wonders how true this is.

Personally, I’ve always associated Christ more with communist theory. In communism, one tries only to further the self interest of the community. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”

In practice, human nature makes this impossible. However, I beleive that Jesus emphasized our ability to follow this. “Sell what you have and give to the poor.” Also, in regards to the widow who gave two copper pieces to the temple, “She has given more than anyone else.”

Personally, as an economically left leaning catholic, I beleive that communism and socialism provide for equity that cannot be found in capitalism (if someone is born poor and disabled mentally and physically, they will probably stay poor)

God Bless!
A left leaning economist
 
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