Wealth, Poverty, and Morality

[2ndRateMind]

Christ’s call to “sell everything you have and give to the poor” does not apply to everyone.

I never said it did, KJW5551. In fact, selling everything and donating the proceeds would only serve to increment the number of those destitute in the world. So I have provided a protection from this absurd idea, by setting the level at which one should not be expected to give more, or asked to do so. As for the poverty line, in the unlikely event that everyone took my advice, then I am sure prices would soon adjust to reflect that new reality.
Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

With this kind of distribution, figure to reduce the total wealth and income by something like 3/4.

Hmmm. dochawk, nowhere do I advocate abandoning the free market. Just the charitable deployment of excesses of wealth. So, being a bear of very little brain, you will need to explain to me why total wealth and income would be reduced by 3/4.
Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[graciew]

In a small scale, when one is in tighter times economically,keeping the people that work for you even at the expense of one not being able to spend much,though a bit “counter” perhaps,tends to keep things more balanced.
I also get from what you are saying the fact that it may be spountaneous,though not " global" as you ve proposed it,but yes, voluntary and willingly. It tends to be thought of as forced,but it can honestly be a personal decision.
Being able to work and provide work is dignifying.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Some people can’t catch a break in life–they’re born behind the eight-ball, their families are troubled with very skimpy social supports, maybe they’re chronically sick or disabled, or have nobody to guide them to making smart choices.

Some people have bad luck–they really do try, but life hands then curve ball after curve ball.
I know people like this.

But then there are people who make their own bad choices on purpose. They choose to party through school instead of studying. They choose drinking and drugs, they choose to make babies out of wedlock on purpose.
I also know people like this.
All these choices carry consequences you don’t get to pick.

 

[HolySpirit]

So what would happen in cases of prodigal sons? Would you let them starve or die without medical care because of their choices? Or are you going to rob from the good people who were responsible with their pittance of $16,000

 

[Dedios]

The reason why communism does not work is because it rewards idlers.

Really! Do you know anything about life under the Communists in Russia? The people were not given handouts. They were made to work, work hard and received very little for it - a lot like many Western countries today.

The idlers are those who live off interest on money the they lend - what the Bible condemns as usury. Yet without usury where would modern Western economies be. The sin of usury is a major part of our economy. Jesus told us that the love of money is the root of all evil. Perhaps our love of money is the root of all our social ills. (Note that Jesus said it was the love of money, not money itself, that was the root of all evil.)

 

[Dedios]

For the record, I am not a capitalist but a distributist, but capitalism is far far better than communism.

Capitalism allows anyone to become rich, but, because of the nature of money, it doesn’t allow everyone to become rich. The system is competitive and in any competition there are winners and loosers. (Some people can’t and never will, be able to run as fast, or lift as heavy a weight, as others.) So, those who loose (the poor) are so through no fault of their own. They shouldn’t be left to suffer because of the system we have adopted. This is why some form of intervention is needed.

The only thing that makes Capitalism better than Communism is that Capitalism allows for individual initiative. Communism requires the following of company policy.

 

[KMC]

To further a point: If all people get the same amount of money, then there will be difficult jobs that go unfulfilled. If I get the same as a doctor and I don’t have to work for it, then why be a doctor? I have watched what my son is going through right now to be a doctor:

• sacrificing in high school to get top grades
• sacrificing in college to get good grades in difficult subjects
• go into serious debt in medical school, studying 12 hours a day, losing sleep, working for free (medical students work and don’t get paid to do it, while on rotations)
• spending a lot of money to interview with multiple hospital to get a residency.

If he gets the right to make what a worker at McDonald’s makes, then why even do it? He likes to make music…why not just do what makes him happy if he will earn the same amount as everyone else?

I think your idea will just stop most difficult jobs or dangerous jobs from getting filled with candidates you want in those jobs.

 

[2ndRateMind]

According to the World Bank, 10% of people live on less than $1.90 per day, down from 35% in 1990. Where is this 2 billion people statistic coming from?

I still can’t post links, being still a newbie. Just google ‘How many people live on less than $2 per day’. The figure I got back was 3 billion people on less than $2.50 per day. Less than $1000 per year. To me, that still seems like pretty extreme poverty, and insufficient money to provide the necessary civilised essentials in life. You know, stuff like adequate food for one’s family.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

To further a point: If all people get the same amount of money, then there will be difficult jobs that go unfulfilled…I have watched what my son is going through right now to be a doctor…

Firstly, I wish your son every success in his chosen profession. Secondly, I wish the unnecessary barriers to entry into the professions were eradicated. That way, recruitment into the professions might be less of a problem.
Best wishes, 2RM

 

[stinkcat_14]

Firstly, I wish your son every success in his chosen profession. Secondly, I wish the unnecessary barriers to entry into the professions were eradicated. That way, recruitment into the professions might be less of a problem.

One of the problems is that the salaries of physicians are artificially inflated because of occupational licensing restrictions. So one thing that would help bring a just distribution of income is more commitment to a free market.

 

[KJW5551]

Again, read the article I posted earlier about India. $2.50 per day in a rural village in India buys you a comfortable middle class life. You’re ignoring facts in this debate. You can’t think of what $2.50 buys you in the west, you have to think about what it buys you in the third world countries in question.

 

[2ndRateMind]

It is quite true that in poorer parts of the world, less money goes further. Nevertheless, $2.50 per day or less will never count as decent living, however impoverished one’s surroundings. To quote your article, it does not seem to me that “Their main worries—poor schools, contaminated water, and limited access to health care” counts as a comfortable middle class way of life. And ‘In contrast, a $2-per-day laborer in Mumbai would spend nearly his entire income on a modest shanty in one of Mumbai’s notorious slums’.
Best wishes, 2RM

 

[Theo520]

There is also lack of equal opportunity.

I never said ‘equal’, that’s your fantasy.
We offer opportunity, which is why so many want to live here.

It’s just a child’s mind that thinks everything can be made equal.

 

[Sarcelle]

I much prefer the proliferation of opportunities for others to get out of poverty.

Speaking as someone who has been involuntarily unemployed too many times I’d rather have a job than a handout.

 

[2ndRateMind]

It’s just a child’s mind that thinks everything can be made equal.

On the contrary, I think all of us have a hankering after justice, and think it to be ‘a good thing’, and want it to be universally established. Indeed, much of what we call social progress is the gradual advance of social justice to all people, regardless of race, sex, sexuality, gender, creed, nationality, caste or class, (dis)ability etc. We may never achieve total equality for everyone, everywhere, for all time, in this life, but that should not stop us aiming for it as our eventual goal. The higher our ambition, the more likely we are to manifest great achievements.
Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Speaking as someone who has been involuntarily unemployed too many times I’d rather have a job than a handout.

I think most would agree with you. I just do not see how the skewed distribution of the world’s wealth contributes to this ambition, while a more balanced global economy just might.
Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Theo520]

Justice doesn’t require everything being equal, again only a child’s mind would go there

Our country offer opportunity, and it may take time, generations in fact.
Parents work hard and sacrifice so their children do well in school and can get a college degree. It frequently takes two generations for the results of the opportunity to present itself.

 

[JimG]

There are two sources of income: people working, and money working. The nice thing about capitalism is that it allows people to work to earn money, and also allows people to have their money work for them. Without savings and investment, we would all be stuck in a subsistence economy.

 

[KMC]

Thank you for the well wishes for my son.

I’m not sure some of the more difficult things about becoming a doctor are “unnecessary”. Doctors first and foremost have to be smart. Intelligence is not distributed equally (simply look at members within the same family who have vast differences of intellectual capabilities). I don’t want the standards of high GPA and high MCAT tests to be lowered…do you? I want smart doctors…you proposal works counter to that.

Face it: If all professions pay the same, you will not get people into the more difficult professions.

My questions to you:

1. Do you think your proposal will discourage people from entering difficult professions at the rates needed for a functioning society? Why or why not?
2. Do you believe all people have equal drive and capabilities? Why or why not?