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Padres1969
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DaveBj
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This is an example of what I like to call “commandment creep” – the slow expansion of a commandment to cover much more territory than it originally did. In this case it goes from “a man who prays or prophecies with his head covered dishonors his head” (note that it is not an actual prohibition) to “no man shall wear any head-covering within a church building, whether he is praying or not.”1 Corinthians 11 : 4 - 5 “Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head…”
7. " A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man."
This is where the Church got it’s rules…:byzsoc:
There is a similar example from the Old Testament, applicable only to Jews. “Thou shalt not boil a kid in its mother’s milk” became “thou shalt not have meat products and dairy products in the same room.” Or something like that. In any case, “thou shalt not eat a cheeseburger.”
Full disclosure: When I go to Mass or Confession, I leave my beach hat or my baseball cap in the truck. But when I’m eating breakfast at Waffle House or Bojangles, and I’m wearing a hat, I bless my food without taking my hat off.
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Mintaka
Guest
Here are the basics:
Formal wear for both sexes means wearing hats outdoors.
It’s rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Anywhere. (Especially in church, though, because it’s God’s house.)
Meanwhile, it is polite for a woman to leave her hat on indoors, anywhere, although she can take it off if she feels like it. (But it’s more polite for her to wear a hat in church than to take it off.) You wouldn’t want a woman’s hair to be disarranged while she’s outside her home, by continually taking hats on and off, so she is excused.
Basically, Western society has spent the last fifty years messing with these simple rules. The first step was telling men that it was less manly and strong to wear hats outdoors, because that meant admitting that your head might be cold or hot. (There was also a lot of identifying hats with the covering of baldness, and pressuring men to wear Grecian Formula if they were turning gray.)
At this point, women also began to be pressured not to wear hats outdoors or indoors, in order to prove that they had lovely natural hair under their hats. (And wigs became briefly quite popular for women who didn’t have masses of lovely hair, while dying hair to the preferred fashion colors also became more important.) Women in winter suddenly had to worry about hat hair, when that had never been a problem except at home.
So now we have a situation where men do silly things like wear their hats inside churches and grocery stores (where there is neither sun nor cold nor wind to fear), and where women have to rush to the church bathroom or mirror to repair their hair, because they instantly take off their hats.
Formal wear for both sexes means wearing hats outdoors.
It’s rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Anywhere. (Especially in church, though, because it’s God’s house.)
Meanwhile, it is polite for a woman to leave her hat on indoors, anywhere, although she can take it off if she feels like it. (But it’s more polite for her to wear a hat in church than to take it off.) You wouldn’t want a woman’s hair to be disarranged while she’s outside her home, by continually taking hats on and off, so she is excused.
Basically, Western society has spent the last fifty years messing with these simple rules. The first step was telling men that it was less manly and strong to wear hats outdoors, because that meant admitting that your head might be cold or hot. (There was also a lot of identifying hats with the covering of baldness, and pressuring men to wear Grecian Formula if they were turning gray.)
At this point, women also began to be pressured not to wear hats outdoors or indoors, in order to prove that they had lovely natural hair under their hats. (And wigs became briefly quite popular for women who didn’t have masses of lovely hair, while dying hair to the preferred fashion colors also became more important.) Women in winter suddenly had to worry about hat hair, when that had never been a problem except at home.
So now we have a situation where men do silly things like wear their hats inside churches and grocery stores (where there is neither sun nor cold nor wind to fear), and where women have to rush to the church bathroom or mirror to repair their hair, because they instantly take off their hats.
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Padres1969
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Never understood why it’s rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Then again I grew up after hats left the common usage for men outdoors as formal wear. I tend to wear a baseball cap as part of my typical dress other than formal occasions or in the office (though today I’m wearing it because our AC unit is turned way down and blowing on my bald head) . In formal situations I wear a fedora instead indoors or outdoors unless the situation calls for no hat (ie: church, court, etc…). I’ve never had anyone insinuate that my wearing a cap is rude because I’m inside. For me my caps are akin to hair since I’ve no hair to style.
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zab
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"Hat etiquette- Your Guide to Wearing Hats and Caps " from Ask Andy About Clothes, The World’s Most Popular Website Devoted to Men’s Clothing Advice
askandyaboutclothes.com/clothing/style-tips/hat-etiquette/
Even the ladies could learn some etiquette about wearing baseball cap or other unisex cap inside.
askandyaboutclothes.com/clothing/style-tips/hat-etiquette/
Even the ladies could learn some etiquette about wearing baseball cap or other unisex cap inside.
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Confiteor_Deo
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I think men wearing hats in the church is very disrespectful. This used to be forbidden by Canon Law.
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guiltyofdoubt
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Are you OK if you go to Mass looking like this?
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zab
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That’s true, but I also have observed that many people today do not observe the custom of “keep to the right” when you approach someone coming down the sidewalk. It is more like playing chicken to see who will move out of the way. Just because many people are no longer observing the custom does not mean that the custom is no longer appropriate.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I think in general “people need to treat Mass like a date” with regard to how they dress as a priest once said.
I encourage self-reflection on this and would urge caution when assessing people who aren’t suits or fancy dresses. As you say, there may be a medical reason for it—or even the weather.
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SuperLuigi
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Well, if it’s not 104 degrees in the cathedral with no air conditioning.
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Phemie
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You can go to Mass looking like this as long as the top hat comes off when you enter the church.
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InThePew
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The rule of liturgical hats is simple - don’t pray with it; don’t play with it!
An earlier reference to judges and wigs led me to ponder whether, in centuries gone by when wigs were standard wear for those in the educated classes, wigs were worn during mass…
That said, and returning to the OP, my approach to such things (dress standards, etc) is simple: would you rather they didn’t come? If people are coming to mass, that in itself is a good thing which should obviously be encouraged and welcomed. Everything else follows from that. If catechesis is needed (and I’m not sold on women wearing hats but not men in this age of equality and inclusiveness
) it can come later but you can’t catechises people if you’re turning them away at the door!
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zab
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No one said anything about ever turning someone away at the door. The conversation has been geared more toward etiquette in general which would then include head wear in Church. As far as I know, no one ever mentioned a dress code in Church.The rule of liturgical hats is simple - don’t pray with it; don’t play with it!
An earlier reference to judges and wigs led me to ponder whether, in centuries gone by when wigs were standard wear for those in the educated classes, wigs were worn during mass…
That said, and returning to the OP, my approach to such things (dress standards, etc) is simple: would you rather they didn’t come? If people are coming to mass, that in itself is a good thing which should obviously be encouraged and welcomed. Everything else follows from that. If catechesis is needed (and I’m not sold on women wearing hats but not men in this age of equality and inclusiveness
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27lw
Guest
Harshness warning - - people with delicate sensibilities are warned!
I think this is akin to the “broken windows” theory of crime fighting. When you let the little things slide, then everything goes downhill. When people are dressed up, it shows respect for the occasion. If you are wearing a ball cap, it looks like you are in the mood to play baseball. It’s not a look that says “here I am, in my Sunday best”.
I remember in kindergarten, a couple or so decades back, the kindergarten teacher would tell all of us, “a gentleman doesn’t wear his hat indoors”. Period. So for the person who wrote:
“Never understood why it’s rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Then again I grew up after hats left the common usage for men outdoors as formal wear.”
Sorry to tell you this, but a lot of other people learned this as early as kindergarten. So it looks like you either: don’t care, or don’t know better. Like it or not, we all make judgments about other people based on appearance. Wearing a baseball cap in church does not reflect well on you - - sorry. It’s a casual look. Your bald head does not look disrespectful, your baseball cap does.
I think this is akin to the “broken windows” theory of crime fighting. When you let the little things slide, then everything goes downhill. When people are dressed up, it shows respect for the occasion. If you are wearing a ball cap, it looks like you are in the mood to play baseball. It’s not a look that says “here I am, in my Sunday best”.
I remember in kindergarten, a couple or so decades back, the kindergarten teacher would tell all of us, “a gentleman doesn’t wear his hat indoors”. Period. So for the person who wrote:
“Never understood why it’s rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Then again I grew up after hats left the common usage for men outdoors as formal wear.”
Sorry to tell you this, but a lot of other people learned this as early as kindergarten. So it looks like you either: don’t care, or don’t know better. Like it or not, we all make judgments about other people based on appearance. Wearing a baseball cap in church does not reflect well on you - - sorry. It’s a casual look. Your bald head does not look disrespectful, your baseball cap does.
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Padres1969
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As I said earlier, that sensibility that says caps indoors are inappropriate (not necessarily in church mind you but indoors in general) has apparently faded away however. I don’t know anyone under 50 who considers it rude to wear a cap indoors save select occasions like church, court, etc…Harshness warning - - people with delicate sensibilities are warned!
I think this is akin to the “broken windows” theory of crime fighting. When you let the little things slide, then everything goes downhill. When people are dressed up, it shows respect for the occasion. If you are wearing a ball cap, it looks like you are in the mood to play baseball. It’s not a look that says “here I am, in my Sunday best”.
I remember in kindergarten, a couple or so decades back, the kindergarten teacher would tell all of us, “a gentleman doesn’t wear his hat indoors”. Period. So for the person who wrote:
“Never understood why it’s rude for a man to wear a hat indoors. Then again I grew up after hats left the common usage for men outdoors as formal wear.”
Sorry to tell you this, but a lot of other people learned this as early as kindergarten. So it looks like you either: don’t care, or don’t know better. Like it or not, we all make judgments about other people based on appearance. Wearing a baseball cap in church does not reflect well on you - - sorry. It’s a casual look. Your bald head does not look disrespectful, your baseball cap does.
And I too remember being told around kindergarten age that it was inappropriate to wear caps indoors (indeed we weren’t allowed to in Catholic grade school in the 80’s). However when you inquired as to why that was the case, the answers were less than satisfactory, “it’s disrespectful”. But that “disrespect” when pushed could never be quantified and was usually pooh-pooh’ed away as, “that’s just the way things are done” or some variant of that theme.
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ProVobis
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It doesn’t have to be a baseball cap necessarily. As I stated before maybe a cap saying “Catholic” on it may be more appropriate, that is, if you’re going to wear a cap at all.
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andrewstx
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I have weird hair, curly on one side and flat on the other side. You can well believe that the other time my head is covered is when I go from narthex to the church proper.
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27lw
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Gaah! So you admit that people don’t consider it rude to wear a cap indoors - - except at select occasions like church - - and that you don’t understand why people would have a problem with your wearing a cap at church?!!
Also, I am under 50, and it looks odd to me if I see a man wearing a hat indoors (especially at church). I’m sure there are others like me. I have to wonder now, you’re probably wearing jeans and a t-shirt with your ball cap at church? Or what?
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