Wedding Officiated by a Deacon

[Matthew_Holford]

So if I’m understanding you, correctly- you are not disagreeing with Deacon FAB when he said that deacons receive their faculties at ordination. Your disagree with his statement that it is by his ordination that he has his faculties. Maybe he is not saying it correctly, but I take it to mean that he and other deacons were given their faculties at their ordination.

Yes, a deacon may be given his faculties at his ordination. If we look at this logically it wouldn’t make sense to ordain a deacon and wait six months to grant him faculties. That would be quite restrictive on his ministry. However, it is his faculties that permit a deacon to assist at marriages not his ordination. Obviously ordination is required but so are faculties. There are things that priests and deacons may have the power to do by virtue of ordination but in many cases they also require faculties from the Church in addition to ordination.

 

[FrDavid96]

So if I’m understanding you, correctly- you are not disagreeing with Deacon FAB when he said that deacons receive their faculties at ordination. Your disagree with his statement that it is by his ordination that he has his faculties. Maybe he is not saying it correctly, but I take it to mean that he and other deacons were given their faculties at their ordination.

The distinction here is between

receiving faculties at the time of ordination

or

receiving faculties by virtue of ordination

The sacrament of ordination itself does not give any faculties. A cleric has faculties because either the ordinary grants them, or by virtue of office (like pastor), or by the law itself (eg a priest w/o faculties can absolve in danger of death).

When it comes to the faculties to preside at the marriage ceremony, the only 2 clerics who actually have those faculties are the ordinary and the pastor. Every other cleric, priest or deacon, still needs delegation from one or the other.

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

Therefore, according to canon 1108, a deacon still needs delegated faculties from either the ordinary or the pastor before he can validly witness a marriage. He does not have this by virtue of his ordination.

Many bishops grant deacons their faculties immediately after ordination; but ordination itself does not grant faculties.

 

[zab]

Yes, a deacon may be given his faculties at his ordination. If we look at this logically it wouldn’t make sense to ordain a deacon and wait six months to grant him faculties. That would be quite restrictive on his ministry. However, it is his faculties that permit a deacon to assist at marriages not his ordination. Obviously ordination is required but so are faculties. There are things that priests and deacons may have the power to do by virtue of ordination but in many cases they also require faculties from the Church in addition to ordination.

I’m glad that we got that cleared up. Th OP need not be concerned because the wedding will be officiated by a Deacon. Like Deacon FAB said, “A deacon is an ordained minister in the Church, one of his facalities is to wittness weddings.”

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I’m glad that we got that cleared up. Th OP need not be concerned because the wedding will be officiated by a Deacon. Like Deacon FAB said, “A deacon is an ordained minister in the Church, one of his facalities is to wittness weddings.”

No the OP need not be concerned. A deacon is a sacred minister, he’s a cleric. These apply whether he’s permanent or temporary deacon. If he’s been given faculties, and his he’s going to officiate at this wedding we should assume he has then, the marriage will be lawfully and validly celebrated.

 

[paperwight66]

Can’t a parishioner volunteer do it? It doesn’t have to be a priest. The “Approved Person” in our parish is a lay person.

Indeed. That’s what I meant. The Registrar or Approved Person is a lay person. In our parish, the person concerned who fills in the paperwork etc. in the sacristy is actually referred to as ‘the Registrar’.
To be honest, I don’t know if that is their ‘proper’ job, so to speak i.e. whether they work in the Register Office full-time or just do weddings for our parish, so really ought to be called ‘the Approved Person’. I must enquire. And yes, ‘Register Office’ IS the correct term although it is commonly called ‘Registry Office’, I know.

 

[FAB]

I am not missing anything. In fact I said precisely that (and in the very post you are responding to)-- a deacon is typically given this faculty (at least in the US) at ordination and does not ask permission each time.

That is not the same thing as having the faculty **by virtue of **his ordination. The faculty must first be given.

In my first post I stated that the Deacon is given his faculties at ordination. The ordinary gives them to him in writing, which is according to the cannon. If you were clarifying the process, fine, then it wasn’t for my benefit.
The OP seemed to be questioning if the Deacon had any right at all to witness marriages, whom I was answering i.e. he thought on pastor/priest could do so. , as long as they have not been suspended for some reason, he has every right through ordination to do so.
The exact mechanism was only secondary.

 

[FAB]

The distinction here is between

receiving faculties at the time of ordination

or

receiving faculties by virtue of ordination

The sacrament of ordination itself does not give any faculties. A cleric has faculties because either the ordinary grants them, or by virtue of office (like pastor), or by the law itself (eg a priest w/o faculties can absolve in danger of death).

When it comes to the faculties to preside at the marriage ceremony, the only 2 clerics who actually have those faculties are the ordinary and the pastor. Every other cleric, priest or deacon, still needs delegation from one or the other.

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.

Therefore, according to canon 1108, a deacon still needs delegated faculties from either the ordinary or the pastor before he can validly witness a marriage. He does not have this by virtue of his ordination.

Many bishops grant deacons their faculties immediately after ordination; but ordination itself does not grant faculties.

I know you understand what I meant to say, but I not certain you heard what I said.
In my post I said at the ordination a deacon is given his facility. Immediately after my ordination, will still in the church, the director of the deaconate program handed me a letter for the ordinary giving me my facilitates. which included witnessing weddings. I assume that this would be the process at all diocese.
Many still question the role of deacons, as was the OP.

 

[FAB]

That is not correct. At ordination he becomes a deacon. As a deacon he might be allowed to assist at weddings. He does not require the automatic right to assist at marriage because he is a deacon. The law is quite clear on this. A deacon must be given faculties. If an ordained deacon assisted at a marriage without faculties the marriage would be invalid due to defect of form. A deacon needs faculties to assist at marriage. They may be granted by the ordinary or by the parish priest (called pastor in some countries, to avoid confusion). The faculties may be given generically, i.e. a deacon can assist at all weddings in the stated territory. The faculty may be given specifically for one wedding. The Code of Canon Law makes all this clear.

It was cleared up else were as when a deacon receives his faculties.(in writing at the time of his ordination)
You are using the term assist which is only partially correct. At a wedding I would be assisting the priest, but if I am am the primary minister who is witnessing the exchange of vows, I am at that point no longer assisting, but the witness for the Church.
At a wedding were there is not priest, I would be the presider.

 

[FrDavid96]

I know you understand what I meant to say, but I not certain you heard what I said.
In my post I said at the ordination a deacon is given his facility. Immediately after my ordination, will still in the church, the director of the deaconate program handed me a letter for the ordinary giving me my facilitates. which included witnessing weddings. I assume that this would be the process at all diocese.
Many still question the role of deacons, as was the OP.

That might not be the case in all dioceses. The issue of time here really isn’t relevant. If the newly ordained deacon is handed his pagella of faculties immediately after the ceremony, or if it’s mailed to him a month later, that’s academic–the occasions when this would matter just aren’t relevant to the topic here.

But what is relevant is that deacons do not automatically have faculties to officiate at weddings. This is not something that a deacon receives by virtue of his ordination. For that matter, the same applies to a priest. Only pastors (parish pastors or ordinaries as pastors of their dioceses) actually possess faculties to preside at marriages. For anyone else (even a visiting bishop) the faculties have to be delegated by the pastor in order for the marriage to be valid.

I did a quick search for “pagella of faculties deacon” and this is the first result that came up catholiccincinnati.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pagella_of_faculties_for_deacons.pdf
I mention this only as an example because it’s available–nothing more is implied by choosing this diocese.

General delegation is given to each and every deacon incardinated or canonically appointed to a parish in the archdiocese to assist at marriages within the confines of the archdiocese when at least one of the parties is of the Latin rite (canon 1109). However, permission to exercise this faculty must be obtained from the proper pastor of the Catholic party or parties (canon 1114)…Permission of the proper pastor should be obtained for marriages outside the parish or institution to which the deacon is assigned. Sacrum Diaconatus Ordinem and the Rite of Marriage both indicate the deacon is to be the official witness at a marriage “when a priest cannot be present.”*

A deacon cannot witness a marriage by virtue of the fact that he’s ordained. It is not ordination that gives the faculties. It is the fact that he is first given general delegation by the bishop, and then given specific delegation from the appropriate pastor. It’s an important distinction.

*PS–since the document was a scanned PDF, I took the liberty of correcting some typos.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

You are using the term assist which is only partially correct.

It is fully correct. See the Code of Canon Law. It uses the term “assist”. It has a definite meaning. It does not have its everyday meaning of to help out. The term “assist” is applied to the bishop, priest, deacon, and even, layperson delegated to assist at marriage. It refers to the role of asking for and receiving, in the name of the Church, the consent of the parties to the marriage. So it’s not about helping the priest. Its about officiating, presiding, or what other term you want to use, at the celebration of holy matrimony.

 

[FAB]

It is fully correct. See the Code of Canon Law. It uses the term “assist”. It has a definite meaning. It does not have its everyday meaning of to help out. The term “assist” is applied to the bishop, priest, deacon, and even, layperson delegated to assist at marriage. It refers to the role of asking for and receiving, in the name of the Church, the consent of the parties to the marriage. So it’s not about helping the priest. Its about officiating, presiding, or what other term you want to use, at the celebration of holy matrimony.

I bow to your knowledge, you are correct. In the context the clergy is the witness for the church who assist the couple who are the actual presiders.

 

[zab]

I bow to your knowledge, you are correct. In the context the clergy is the witness for the church who assist the couple who are the actual presiders.

Now, if you could only learn to spell just kidding.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I bow to your knowledge, you are correct.

I don’t want, need, or expect that. I’m not certain of your motive for saying this.

In the context the clergy is the witness for the church who assist the couple who are the actual presiders.

That isn’t what I said.

 

[FAB]

I don’t want, need, or expect that. I’m not certain of your motive for saying this.

That isn’t what I said.

Don’t take offense, just admitting my error. I’ve read thousands of words and cannot remember every part and phrasing of the canon.
To be totally correct:

Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1
§2. The person who assists at a marriage is understood to be only that person who is present, asks for the manifestation of the consent of the contracting parties, and receives it in the name of the Church.

Which back to the OP is part of a deacon"s Facalties.

 

[FrDavid96]

Which back to the OP is part of a deacon"s Facalties.

Only it is not “part of a deacon’s faculties.”

Not all deacons have faculties to act as the official witness for a marriage (officiate, preside, solemnize, etc.). Deacons must be given faculties for each individual wedding.

You keep trying to say that deacons can officiate by virtue of ordination to the diaconate–that’s simply not true.

 

[zab]

Only it is not “part of a deacon’s faculties.”

Not all deacons have faculties to act as the official witness for a marriage (officiate, preside, solemnize, etc.). Deacons must be given faculties for each individual wedding.

You keep trying to say that deacons can officiate by virtue of ordination to the diaconate–that’s simply not true.

I think we all get it. The Deacon FAB can’t spell. And we know that a deacon has to have faculties to assist at a wedding. Deacon FAB was given his faculties “in writing” the same day that he was ordained. It is possible that other deacons received their faculties on a day other than the day that they were ordained. And not all Deacons get faculties to act as official witness for a marriage.
Now back to the OP. If a deacon was scheduled at a certain parish to assist at the wedding and not “an ordained pastor/priest”, I think that we can safely assume that the deacon in that parish has faculties to assist (Officiate) at the Marriage.