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Xantippe
Guest
This is off topic, but what are our Orthodox brethren supposed to do in mission territories, in North Korea, or when working in Antarctica?
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dans0622
Guest
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dans0622
Guest
Hello,
For Eastern Catholics, if no priest is available, they have the ability to marry before lay witnesses only and, later, receive the nuptial blessing when that is possible (Eastern Code, c. 832).
I suspect, but don’t know, that the Orthodox have similar allowances in such extraordinary cases.
Dan
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nodito
Guest
Mayita, I don’t know what else to say. You are incorrect. I think if you look for supporting documentation for your position you will be unable to find it.
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OraLabora
Guest
I suppose then that you think a marriage performed by a Catholic deacon is invalid?
Then you would be wrong again. Not surprising, as you have been promoting error all along.
Unless you can provide documentation to prove your assertions.
You can’t.
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Sophie_Lawrence
Guest
Would your family come to a reception?
Perhaps when you marry you have a small intimate ceremony in the Catholic Church.
Then have the reception another day. You can have the gown, the bridesmaids etc for the reception and not have a “ceremony”.
You and your husband can have an entrance with the bridal party, give a little speech that you are celebrating your marriage, maybe read some meaningful readings, have someone sing a song, then have a receiving line. It wouldn’t be a ceremony.
I worked with a fellow who did something similar, he was married in the Church in Italy, his wife was South American. They had a reception in South America for those who could not attend. The best man gave a speech, and then led everyone in prayer for the couple. The couple wore bridal clothing.
Maybe something like this can be a compromise?
Perhaps when you marry you have a small intimate ceremony in the Catholic Church.
Then have the reception another day. You can have the gown, the bridesmaids etc for the reception and not have a “ceremony”.
You and your husband can have an entrance with the bridal party, give a little speech that you are celebrating your marriage, maybe read some meaningful readings, have someone sing a song, then have a receiving line. It wouldn’t be a ceremony.
I worked with a fellow who did something similar, he was married in the Church in Italy, his wife was South American. They had a reception in South America for those who could not attend. The best man gave a speech, and then led everyone in prayer for the couple. The couple wore bridal clothing.
Maybe something like this can be a compromise?
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Mayita30
Guest
Your initial advise to the OP was that it was ok to marry with the non-catholic minister officiating it…we are not talking about deacons… I really do wonder why there are so many annulments in america. Most of this annulments are cases like this… you just cannot advise people to marry on protestant grounds with a non catholic minister…very uncalled for as a catholic…It is not me promoting error because it is not me throwing canon law and catechisms of the catholic church just like what protestants do with bible verses…things can be interpreted in various ways and the most qualified people are the priest. Only them can tell the OP that it is ok to marry outside the church or with a non-catholic minister… It is not your calling to do that.
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phil19034
Guest
Mayita - may we move this side bar conversation to this thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=950381
We should not side bar the OP’s question.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
Thank you.
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ThyKingdomCome
Guest
OP, I am sorry you are going through this. I agree with whoever suggested you consider making it a smaller wedding, for your own comfort.
I would like to suggest you consider this perspective, if you haven’t already. As a Catholic, there will be times in your life when you will be put into a position where you have to choose between doing what makes others happy and doing what you know is right by your faith. This could even come in the form of a wedding. My family has had to turn down a couple of wedding invitations due to conflicts with our convictions. In these cases, we tried to be as loving as we could, while at the same time, asking the person we turned down to respect our need to be true to our faith. So in a sense, I can appreciate that your parents might be making this choice because they fear that attending your wedding would be like turning their back on their faith. I don’t know for sure if this is how they feel - are they not allowed to attend? Do they not believe it will be a valid wedding? Do they believe that they have an obligation not to appear as though they support something they believe could lead to your damnation? These are things that while they will hurt, are understandable dilemmas for your parents to be facing, as they would indicate a strong desire to do what is right in the eyes of God.
Of course, I don’t know your parents exact motivation, and maybe it is not as pure as that. Maybe raising specific questions and having them answered would settle their concerns. Or maybe there is a compromise that would allow them to attend and allow you to still have a Catholic wedding. But if it comes to them staying firm and refusing to attend, do try to be as understanding as possible. Express to them how sad it makes you, and that it hurts you. But also express that you understand that a person’s first obligation is to God, and if they can’t attend because they believe it violates their duties to God, then you understand and respect them for trying to do right by their faith. After all, you also have made choices to do your duty to God even though it hurt your family (becoming Catholic), and you may have to make unpopular choices again. I also don’t know if they have been loving and respectful of you about this issue. If not, let your reaction show them that respect for another person despite differences is important and that you are able to give them the same respect you want from them. Long term, this acceptance will serve you well, and in the short term, it might help you to not take it as personally, or might help you to see the love in their decision - perhaps soften the blow a little.
I would like to suggest you consider this perspective, if you haven’t already. As a Catholic, there will be times in your life when you will be put into a position where you have to choose between doing what makes others happy and doing what you know is right by your faith. This could even come in the form of a wedding. My family has had to turn down a couple of wedding invitations due to conflicts with our convictions. In these cases, we tried to be as loving as we could, while at the same time, asking the person we turned down to respect our need to be true to our faith. So in a sense, I can appreciate that your parents might be making this choice because they fear that attending your wedding would be like turning their back on their faith. I don’t know for sure if this is how they feel - are they not allowed to attend? Do they not believe it will be a valid wedding? Do they believe that they have an obligation not to appear as though they support something they believe could lead to your damnation? These are things that while they will hurt, are understandable dilemmas for your parents to be facing, as they would indicate a strong desire to do what is right in the eyes of God.
Of course, I don’t know your parents exact motivation, and maybe it is not as pure as that. Maybe raising specific questions and having them answered would settle their concerns. Or maybe there is a compromise that would allow them to attend and allow you to still have a Catholic wedding. But if it comes to them staying firm and refusing to attend, do try to be as understanding as possible. Express to them how sad it makes you, and that it hurts you. But also express that you understand that a person’s first obligation is to God, and if they can’t attend because they believe it violates their duties to God, then you understand and respect them for trying to do right by their faith. After all, you also have made choices to do your duty to God even though it hurt your family (becoming Catholic), and you may have to make unpopular choices again. I also don’t know if they have been loving and respectful of you about this issue. If not, let your reaction show them that respect for another person despite differences is important and that you are able to give them the same respect you want from them. Long term, this acceptance will serve you well, and in the short term, it might help you to not take it as personally, or might help you to see the love in their decision - perhaps soften the blow a little.
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OraLabora
Guest
The Church allows it under certain circumstances and with the appropriate dispensations.
End of discussion.
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Mayita30
Guest
It is only the Church who can say things with regards to sensitive matters such as being married by a non catholic or marrying outside the Church. You are not a priest therefore you cannot go around quoting Canon law and catechism of the Church and pretend you know it all…end of discussion too…it is best for OP to receive advise from a priest…
I do not pretend to know everything in the Church because I am not a priest and I will never advise any Catholic to marry outside the Church or through a non-catholic minister… It is also my duty as Catholic not to mislead people just like what you are doing…
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Mayita30
Guest
Thanks…but I’m not joining that thread anymore…I’m done with this thread…God bless!
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Zelie_Louis
Guest
For those of you who took this thread entirely off topic, please do not participate if you are unable to specifically address the OP’s concerns.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you for your cooperation.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
Given the situation with my family, should we have a wedding outside the church building if by chance we receive a dispensation for it? Granted, the chances of being able to go that route are slim anyway. When I asked my priest about a wedding outside the church building, he said that he can only do it with the express permission of the bishop, and that the bishop has never granted permission for this, to his knowledge.
But supposing that the bishop did grant permission, should we do it for my parents, to preserve family harmony and make them more comfortable at the wedding? It’s not what my fiancé and I want, at least under ideal circumstances (and it’s not what his parents would like, either, for that matter), but I don’t want to be selfish about this. I love my parents deeply, and I can’t stand seeing them sad and hurt, especially at my wedding.
Thoughts on this?
But supposing that the bishop did grant permission, should we do it for my parents, to preserve family harmony and make them more comfortable at the wedding? It’s not what my fiancé and I want, at least under ideal circumstances (and it’s not what his parents would like, either, for that matter), but I don’t want to be selfish about this. I love my parents deeply, and I can’t stand seeing them sad and hurt, especially at my wedding.
Thoughts on this?
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Xantippe
Guest
You won’t see them looking sad and hurt at the church wedding, because you’ll be getting married and you’ll be looking at the priest and your future husband, not anybody else.
Just pare down the wedding party to the minimum so it’s not obvious that your family has refused to participate in the wedding party. And maybe do a wedding without a Mass to prevent having to exclude 50+% of the people there.
The wedding reception will presumably be elsewhere, which is when you’ll finally have a chance to see and talk to your family (as well as a million other people). If they’re still looking sad and hurt at the wedding reception, they’d look sad and hurt no matter where you had the actual wedding ceremony.
If all goes well, your family is going to have many, many opportunities for snits: baptisms, First Communions, Confirmations, your future kids’ weddings, etc. They are going to have to either get used to walking into a Catholic church and sitting through various religious ceremonies or skipping at least half of your family’s major life events. You aren’t going to get dispensations for your future kids’ First Communions and Confirmations to be held elsewhere, after all.
Keep calm and carry on!
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Della
Guest
It seems you haven’t really moved on from your first post. It all boils down to not wanting to hurt your family. I can sympathize with that. :console:
However, what about their hurting you? If they truly love you why are they putting all the onus on you to make them happy at YOUR wedding?
No, my dear. You need to ignore their bad behavior, for that’s what it is, and just go on with your life. As others have stated, if you don’t create boundaries for this sort of thing now, your family will hold you hostage to their bad manners for the rest of your life. How they behave is up to them, not up to you. Don’t give into their emotional blackmail–for that’s what it is.
Do what you and your fiance want and be at peace with it. Perhaps in time your family will come around. Even if they don’t you can’t live your entire life according to their feelings. Press on and be brave. You have my continued prayers.
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes.
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Magdalen2013
Guest
It is valid IF the bride and groom have asked for, and received a dispensation from form.
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Magdalen2013
Guest
DON’T DO IT – stand your ground and have a Catholic wedding, Mass and all. If you give in to your family here, it will be the same with EVERY religious occasion down the road – baptisms, first Holy Communion, etc.
At least they’re willing to attend the ceremony – that’s a major battle right there.
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