Wedding question

[Sanctifiable]

I have a dilemma that I’m dealing with. My nephew who was raised Catholic is getting married soon. He and his bride to be have been openly living in sin for quite some time and I don’t believe it bothers either parents, they have even helped them with housing ect… Somehow the wedding is at a Catholic church. I am a traditional practicing Catholic. Can anyone tell me what the call is for me in this situation. Am I allowed to attend the wedding ceremony (knowing what I know it makes me ill to do this) ?? If I don’t attend the ceremony is it ok for me to attend the reception only or should I just stay away period ? I am asking this in the Trad section because that’s what I am and I want a traditionalists view on this. This is a problem for me because I don’t want to attend and I will take heat from family if they knew why. My other question is how are they getting married in a Catholic church, I’m sure the priest asked them their living situation Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Rich_C]

I have a dilemma that I’m dealing with. My nephew who was raised Catholic is getting married soon. He and his bride to be have been openly living in sin for quite some time and I don’t believe it bothers either parents, they have even helped them with housing ect… Somehow the wedding is at a Catholic church. I am a traditional practicing Catholic. Can anyone tell me what the call is for me in this situation. Am I allowed to attend the wedding ceremony (knowing what I know it makes me ill to do this) ?? If I don’t attend the ceremony is it ok for me to attend the reception only or should I just stay away period ? I am asking this in the Trad section because that’s what I am and I want a traditionalists view on this. This is a problem for me because I don’t want to attend and I will take heat from family if they knew why. My other question is how are they getting married in a Catholic church, I’m sure the priest asked them their living situation Any help would be appreciated.

I would ask a good priest.

It seems like a gray area to me, since it’s possible (however unlikely) that behind the scenes father is making them confess and keep separate beds.

Sorry I’m not much help, but I’ll say a prayer for their conversion.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

First, we need to establish something, there is no traditionalist/non-traditionalist view. It’s what the Church says.

The Church says that marriage is a natural right, and Catholics are canonically bound to be married within the Church. A priest cannot refuse to witness the marriage of Catholics on the grounds that they’re cohabitating. He can counsel them to separate during their engagement. If he deems that there are other sufficient grounds as laid out in Canon Law that would permit him to delay marriage (ie: one party in unable to enter into marriage freely because of other pressures such as financial, shot-gun wedding etc), he can do so. However, on the grounds alone that they’re living in sin he can’t refuse them marriage.

He can (and should) counsel them not to have a Nuptial Mass, and to have a smaller simpler wedding. In some conservative dioceses there is a policy that if a couple is living in a state of cohabitation they are not permitted to have a big fancy wedding, but rather a smaller simpler wedding.

With regards to whether or not you can attend, yes you can and should. You should also pray for them that they may have a conversion of heart and become fully reconciled with the Church.

 

[Boulder257]

It sounds like you don’t really know the situation at hand. You’re about to make a very big decision based on assumption and speculation.

They are about to get married, in the Catholic Church. Sounds like there should be a celebration and if I were family I would very much want to be a part of it.

 

[JReducation]

I have a dilemma that I’m dealing with. My nephew who was raised Catholic is getting married soon. He and his bride to be have been openly living in sin for quite some time and I don’t believe it bothers either parents, they have even helped them with housing ect… Somehow the wedding is at a Catholic church. I am a traditional practicing Catholic. Can anyone tell me what the call is for me in this situation. Am I allowed to attend the wedding ceremony (knowing what I know it makes me ill to do this) ?? If I don’t attend the ceremony is it ok for me to attend the reception only or should I just stay away period ? I am asking this in the Trad section because that’s what I am and I want a traditionalists view on this. This is a problem for me because I don’t want to attend and I will take heat from family if they knew why. My other question is how are they getting married in a Catholic church, I’m sure the priest asked them their living situation Any help would be appreciated.

If there is no canonical impediment to the marriage, then the sacrament is valid and licit. Therefore, it would be perfectly fine for you to attend and even encouraged that you attend. At the wedding, you are there with the Church as a witness to the sacrament.

In this case, you should be more than eager to see them regularize their situation through the sacrament of marriage and be able to return to full communion with the Christian community.

 

[thewanderer]

We are all sinners. The fact that they have, or even are, sinning is no reason to stay away from a valid, sacramental marriage!! If it is true that they are currently actually sinning (again, can you really know that for sure?) then what this marriage is doing is removing the temptation to sin and changing their life from a life of sin to a virtuous life in the sacrament of matrimony. Why on earth would you have any qualms about attending such a marriage? Let alone feel sick over it!! What is questionable is a non-valid marriage, because in such a case no real marriage is taking place. But a valid and sacramental marriage? We’re all sinners. Its a valid marriage. There is no reason to not attend.

 

[hannajomar]

Cohabiting outside of marriage is not an obstacle to marriage. While it is very likely that this couple is engaging in sinful behavior, their marriage itself is not a sin. In fact, getting married will make their living situation moral. I once heard someone on EWTN radio say that we should actually encourage cohabiting couples to marry, and we should celebrate the ending of their cohabiting. If the wedding is in the Church, there is no wrong in going to the wedding.

 

[GEddie]

It is a Catholic wedding and, IMNAAHO, as family it is your duty to be there.

There is no point in making a futile protest that will only create conflict for years to come. Nothing can erase the sins already committed.

Although it is sad, “live in relationships” going on for years even, are now the norm in this society. Two people going from that into Holy Matrimony is a cause for joy not judgment.

I feel your pain though. Maybe you could offer it as penance for their reconversion?

ICXC NIKA

 

[Suslar]

Cohabiting outside of marriage is not an obstacle to marriage. While it is very likely that this couple is engaging in sinful behavior, their marriage itself is not a sin. In fact, getting married will make their living situation moral. I once heard someone on EWTN radio say that we should actually encourage cohabiting couples to marry, and we should celebrate the ending of their cohabiting. If the wedding is in the Church, there is no wrong in going to the wedding.

. . . I remember writing the words "So I used marriage as justification for my sin . . . " on the paperwork for the Annulment. . . . That we had cohabited and the reasons for why we did so were certainly investigated in the process. . . It was hard to hear about my lack of due discretion and immaturity from the Tribunal, but absolutely true. If I would have known then what I know now, I would have made different choices. I also didn’t know the stats about how many couples who live together first have relationships that end in divorce.

Sorry, I got a off the topic. Dear OP, yes, I do think you should attend. You are not going to condone their living together, but to be a Christian witness and help build bridges.

This might sound crazy, but my parents never told me not to live with my ex. It seemed like no big deal and no one in my family took the time to tell me what I was doing was sinful. Perhaps you can talk with your nephew? You don’t say how old he is or if you have a close relationship with him, but perhaps you can start by just taking him for a cup of coffee and getting to know him and his finance . . .

 

[aemcpa]

I have a dilemma that I’m dealing with. My nephew who was raised Catholic is getting married soon. He and his bride to be have been openly living in sin for quite some time and I don’t believe it bothers either parents, they have even helped them with housing ect… Somehow the wedding is at a Catholic church. I am a traditional practicing Catholic. Can anyone tell me what the call is for me in this situation. Am I allowed to attend the wedding ceremony (knowing what I know it makes me ill to do this) ?? If I don’t attend the ceremony is it ok for me to attend the reception only or should I just stay away period ? I am asking this in the Trad section because that’s what I am and I want a traditionalists view on this. This is a problem for me because I don’t want to attend and I will take heat from family if they knew why. My other question is how are they getting married in a Catholic church, I’m sure the priest asked them their living situation Any help would be appreciated.

If they are Catholic, and they are free to marry, they have no choice but to be married in the Church if they want to be married. The Sacraments are effective ex opere operato; this means that the Sacraments happen even if the minister (in this case the couple) is in sin. They will not be in the state of grace unless they confess the sin of fornication, but they will be married, and their sexual union will cease to be sinful (they will not be committing new sins).

You are free to attend the wedding as there is no reason to believe that it won’t be a valid marriage.

 

[librarychick]

This is close to home for me.

Last year, my husband and I got married, after having lived together for nearly 9 years, and we have a son together.

I’m Catholic, my husband is Pentecostal (who is starting to come to Mass ). Without either of our families knowledge, we began the marriage process at my church.

We were part of a group of couples who were in our same situation, either living unmarried, or couples only with civil marriages.

No one at my church ever told us to have separate beds etc, but on our own we decided to literally live as roommates lol

Point is, don’t be so quick to judge. You aren’t with them behind doors and they may be doing the proper steps before marriage.

As for my own ceremony, very small, no Mass, just the vows, no songs no flowers, it was simple with immediate family only, but was such a blessing.

Remember, don’t judge… you may regret it later.

 

[Sanctifiable]

Whoa please put the pitch forks down…Thank you all for your replies, I’m sorry if I’m sounding judgmental, believe me I have not lived a saintly life and lived with someone before I came home again, I really do wish them the best. I am just ignorant of what I’m supposed to do in this situation. I fully know the family and situation and know they have lived together for some time. I will then attend the wedding. I just honestly wasn’t sure if I was allowed. Thank you all for clearing this up for me. We live in modern times and honestly I don’t know what the rules are for this. As far as wanting a traditional perspective on it, believe it or not there are Catholics who think its ok to live together and use birth control that’s why I wanted a traditionalist angle on this. Thank you all for your help

 

[aemcpa]

I have been taught that the only reason a Catholic should decline to attend a wedding is if it is evident that the marriage will be invalid.

 

[Sanctifiable]

I have been taught that the only reason a Catholic should decline to attend a wedding is if it is evident that the marriage will be invalid.

Thank you, your posts were most helpful. I just had very bad catechism when I was young.

 

[Eufrosnia]

If there is no canonical impediment to the marriage, then the sacrament is valid and licit. Therefore, it would be perfectly fine for you to attend and even encouraged that you attend. At the wedding, you are there with the Church as a witness to the sacrament.

In this case, you should be more than eager to see them regularize their situation through the sacrament of marriage and be able to return to full communion with the Christian community.

I completely understand your reply Brother but would you not agree that there is a mass tendency today to regularize the cohabiting act itself?

Instead of even raising the issue of cohabiting, couples are just lined up to be married as soon as they wish. Cohabiting has been made a regular part of a marriage preparation. For all we know, it is most likely that the couple does not even understand the meaning of marriage or respect the Church’s teaching on sexuality. But at the same time, perhaps they understand it now and want to correct their error. In either case, this is why its so important that there be a visible sign of recognition of the sin in order to repair the harm and confusion the couple has done to society. Ideally, it would be to see the couple separate at least temporarily before the marriage.

Now this is not to blame you or the OP but pointing out a problem today in the Church. There is a problem of increased cohabitation before marriage but there is not much objection from the pulpit or at the time of marriage prep when it is discovered by the priest himself. I believe that it is this scenario that is throwing off the OP.

Faithful Catholics know there is a problem. Since someone is not doing a great job (my guess is that this is the parish priest of each diocese), we have come to the point where lay Catholics have to wonder if their participation may send the wrong message to anyone else that cohabitation is actually fine and normal step before marriage.

I would say the OP should just follow her conscience on the matter and deem what she sees is the most effective and prudent course of action.

 

[1ke]

I am just ignorant of what I’m supposed to do in this situation.

I just honestly wasn’t sure if I was allowed.

I am confused as to why you were unsure of whether or not you, a Catholic, were “allowed” to attend a Catholic wedding being performed in a Catholic Church, by a Catholic priest. If the priests is allowed to be there, wouldn’t it logically follow that parishioners and other Catholics would be allowed there too?

 

[Eufrosnia]

I am confused as to why you were unsure of whether or not you, a Catholic, were “allowed” to attend a Catholic wedding being performed in a Catholic Church, by a Catholic priest. If the priests is allowed to be there, wouldn’t it logically follow that parishioners and other Catholics would be allowed there too?

Not to jump in but I am not sure why its hard to put ourselves in the other person’s shoes, in this case the OP’s shoes.

We have to admit that there is a problem with rampant cohabitation. In most cases, it has become a regular first step before officially getting married. The priest does not say anything and no one else seems to say anything about it.

In such an event, the faithful Catholics who gets confronted with a scenario like what the OP is facing, there is confusion. They wonder if they too will just send a sign of acceptance by attending the wedding as if there was nothing wrong with the whole “cohabiting before marriage”.

The answer is not a matter of Church law either so its not that easy. This particular matter would fall under exercise of prudence and avoiding confusion. The faithful are responsible to try and prevent unnecessary confusion among fellow Catholics. They would determine how to do that to the best of their conscience and knowledge on prudence.

Now all of this could have been avoided if the priest had been straight forward about being separated before marriage from the time the cohabitation was discovered up to the time they are married. That way, there is no confusion and it is clear that such a thing is not allowed. But as it stands, more and more people may get the impression that cohabitation is a valid first step that the Church allows now.

 

[Sanctifiable]

I completely understand your reply Brother but would you not agree that there is a mass tendency today to regularize the cohabiting act itself?

Instead of even raising the issue of cohabiting, couples are just lined up to be married as soon as they wish. Cohabiting has been made a regular part of a marriage preparation. For all we know, it is most likely that the couple does not even understand the meaning of marriage or respect the Church’s teaching on sexuality. But at the same time, perhaps they understand it now and want to correct their error. In either case, this is why its so important that there be a visible sign of recognition of the sin in order to repair the harm and confusion the couple has done to society. Ideally, it would be to see the couple separate at least temporarily before the marriage.

Now this is not to blame you or the OP but pointing out a problem today in the Church. There is a problem of increased cohabitation before marriage but there is not much objection from the pulpit or at the time of marriage prep when it is discovered by the priest himself. I believe that it is this scenario that is throwing off the OP.

Faithful Catholics know there is a problem. Since someone is not doing a great job (my guess is that this is the parish priest of each diocese), we have come to the point where lay Catholics have to wonder if their participation may send the wrong message to anyone else that cohabitation is actually fine and normal step before marriage.

I would say the OP should just follow her conscience on the matter and deem what she sees is the most effective and prudent course of action.

I’m a he not a she… This is my point. The reason I was asking was I was confused as to being a Catholic are we not obligated to point out to someone they are in a state of mortal sin and should the priest who is marrying them say ok quit living together for a couple of months go to confession and I’ll marry you. Please no replies saying I’m judgmental, I’m not judging them. I’m sorry its not right to condone this and let it continue right up to the wedding. This is why I’m asking if it is permitted to attend

 

[Sanctifiable]

This

 

[Eufrosnia]

I’m a he not a she… This is my point. The reason I was asking was I was confused as to being a Catholic are we not obligated to point out to someone they are in a state of mortal sin and should the priest who is marrying them say ok quit living together for a couple of months go to confession and I’ll marry you. Please no replies saying I’m judgmental, I’m not judging them. I’m sorry its not right to condone this and let it continue right up to the wedding. This is why I’m asking if it is permitted to attend

Oops sorry about confusing you for a she

The priest ideally should, not just for the sake of the couple but in order to correct the confusion that the couple has caused to fellow Catholics, ask them to separate.

In this case, the real reason it has come down to you having to choose or worry is because the priest had not done that. If the priest had done that, the couple had not followed through (which could imply they do not understand what a marriage is and Church teaching on sexuality). Or the couple did follow through and are living as brother and sister after a good confession. But in that case, the damage (by adding to the normalizing of cohabitation before marriage) they had done publicly during their years of cohabitation have not been repaired. So the confusion still remains among those who knew them. Ideally they should have separated so that there is a visible acknowledgement that they did something wrong and they do not consider it an ok thing to do.

Since these things have not happened, you are left with having to decide whether you want to attend the wedding and how much you attending will give the impression that “cohabitation before marriage is normal”.

If I were in your shoes, I would try to do what my conscience and prudence informs me.

You might want to ask yourself what impact you will have in not attending. Will they understand why you will not attend. Is it possible that they will think of it as you not agreeing to them marrying (which you are not doing. you only disagree with their cohabitation).

On the other hand, if you have young children, you might want to worry about the message you send your children. They might one day think it is ok to cohabit because you will just be ok with it as long as they get married in the end. You not attending will at least send them the message that if they want your approval, they should not do such things.

The truth is, unless there are those who look up to you like children/grand children or younger siblings, or you are someone people look up to in general, you attending or not attending will most likely not make an impact. It was always the priests job to correct the damage and make it clear to the couple. If he failed, then at this point, you cannot do much. But if you do have those who look up to you or highly value your approval, then I feel it will be better not to attend. Not for the sake of the couple but in order to avoid scandalizing those who look up to you.

What you could do now is try and talk with them even now to perhaps separate temporarily because cohabiting is not moral (this depends on how much you know them and how friendly you are with them). If you hear from them that the priest said its not needed, then you can take the complaint to the right man and make an impact.