Weekly Mass for gays ends in San Antonio

[wisdomseeker]

My fear is that they do understand - but they don’t care.

i doubt they do and i doubt that the priest knows either. giving what we know today, that so many priests have not been tougth the Catholilc faith appropriately, i can only imagine that these people have no clue what sin is. I wonder what they do wiht Scriptures that deals with their behavior. I do know, they make excuse and reason to justify that this Scriptures was not refering to those who each other. it is a shame also that this priest continue to disobey and goes to a presbyterian building to celebrate Mass there. and the bishop allows this continue. it brings scandals to the Church before the world.

it is obviously these people dont want to obey but to disobey is their main nitch. they have not been conformed to the Spirit but are there just to bring scandals to the Church.

 

[Hiskid1973]

My fear is that they do understand - but they don’t care.

that’s an eyeopener, apostasy before our eyes…It’s not just the cc

 

[MarianD]

If they were advocating for the gay lifestyle (including relationships, marriage, and sex), then it should’ve been shut down.

But the fact remains that gays feel alienated in the Catholic Church, and that it should not be this way. Another Mass for gays to go to should they want to (in order to feel more comfortable) should be opened immediately where there is no teaching of acceptance of the gay lifestyle, but rather a teaching of acceptance for homosexual people.

 

[Truth_Fully]

I don’t know anything else about Bishop Cantu but I will send him a note to thank him for doing what’s right in this situation.

It is very disheartening to think about how many have been led astray by priests who hold these gay “masses” and by dissident groups like Dignity.

Good support groups like Courage should definitely be available to parishioners, but I disagree that gays obedient to the Church should have special Masses. Mass is not the time to separate yourself out by your sexual struggles. Mass is about the worship of God. The various issues that we all face should be dealt with in counseling and support groups. Mass should be a unifying experience whereby we come together to place our attention on God - not on ourselves or each other.

It is tragic to ponder the current disobedience within the Church - both by clergy and laity.

 

[MarianD]

Good support groups like Courage should definitely be available to parishioners, but I disagree that gays obedient to the Church should have special Masses. Mass is not the time to separate yourself out by your sexual struggles. Mass is about the worship of God. The various issues that we all face should be dealt with in counseling and support groups. Mass should be a unifying experience whereby we come together to place our attention on God - not on ourselves or each other.

But the fact is that it isn’t. As can be seen on this forum and stories from this forum alone, there is a lot of hatred for gays simply because they’re gay. This is contrary to Church teaching, but people don’t care. People need a place where, instead of feeling like every hateful eye is on them, they can instead worship God in peace.

There needs to be an overhaul of the gay-hate mindset among Catholics, but until then, some gays need a separate Mass and should have that option, should they choose it. This is NOT saying that all gays should be separated from straight people during Mass. I’m simply saying that, if a gay person wants to go to a Mass oriented towards living a chaste lifestyle as a gay Catholic, they should have that option.

You’re right—Mass should be an unifying experience. But the words “should be” is the key phrase. Catholics need to work on making Mass a group-oriented activity instead of a tedious chore to do on Sundays. If one has the latter mindset, it leads to that seemingly arrogant person at Mass who simply sits there when we’re supposed to be offering each other signs of peace.

 

[Hiskid1973]

If they were advocating for the gay lifestyle (including relationships, marriage, and sex), then it should’ve been shut down.

But the fact remains that gays feel alienated in the Catholic Church, and that it should not be this way. Another Mass for gays to go to should they want to (in order to feel more comfortable) should be opened immediately where there is no teaching of acceptance of the gay lifestyle, but rather a teaching of acceptance for homosexual people.

We feel alienation because of sin…Providing just love gives and incomplete message.
The message is the same for all…For God so loved is balanced “go and sin no more”

Disagreeing with an unnatural lifestyle does not equate to hate…

 

[wisdomseeker]

We feel alienation because of sin…Providing just love gives and incomplete message.
The message is the same for all…For God so loved is balanced “go and sin no more”

Disagreeing with an unnatural lifestyle does not equate to hate…

dont you know, those in sin will force us to accept them no matter what even the Mass has to be changed to fit their life style. they will do it by using things like hate. trying to make people feel guilty so as to accept all kinds of sins. this is the modern mindset. accept who i am or you hate me. our Lord said, that in the end many will be deceived. it is up to us to be vigilant last we will shall fall into the devil deceit.

 

[Hiskid1973]

dont you know, those in sin will force us to accept them no matter what even the Mass has to be changed to fit their life style. they will do it by using things like hate. trying to make people feel guilty so as to accept all kinds of sins. this is the modern mindset. accept who i am or you hate me. our Lord said, that in the end many will be deceived. it is up to us to be vigilant last we will shall fall into the devil deceit.

2 Timothy 3

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, un thankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[MarianD]

Disagreeing with an unnatural lifestyle does not equate to hate…

That’s not what I was saying at all. In fact, I said the opposite in my very first sentence.

Simply being gay is not a sin. The Catechism says this (2357-2359), and it says that the sin lies in homosexual acts (i.e. gay sex). So if a person is gay, they still feel alienated by the Church regardless of whether or not they are chaste simply because there is hatred for them from the Church members just because of their sexual orientation.

So there is hatred for gays, not because of their lifestyle (which many faithful gay Catholics do not live, instead they live chastely) but simply because they’re gay. That’s wrong and should be changed.

 

[Hiskid1973]

“For this cause **God gave them up unto vile affections: **for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”

The bolded always made me wonder…

 

[MarianD]

“For this cause **God gave them up unto vile affections: **for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”

The bolded always made me wonder…

If your point is that gays have been punished by God or that being gay is a sin, then that verse is taken way out of context.

St. Paul was speaking about unrighteous nations in the past, and why they were so sinful. He wasn’t speaking about homosexuals.

In fact, when he does speak about homosexuals in particular, he speaks about homosexual acts as being sinful and not homosexuality. It’s a feeling and a lust, just like every other type of lust. For heterosexuals, the sin does not lie in being attracted to a member of the opposite sex, the sin lies in fueling the attraction through illicit means such as fornication and encouraging lustful thoughts. The same is so for homosexuals.

 

[Hiskid1973]

We’re getting way off the OP…I’ll just let it go

 

[Petergee]

But the fact is that it isn’t. As can be seen on this forum and stories from this forum alone, there is a lot of hatred for gays simply because they’re gay. This is contrary to Church teaching, but people don’t care.

I have never seen anyone on CAF express “hatred for gays”, much less do so “simply because they’re gay”.

People need a place where, instead of feeling like every hateful eye is on them, they can instead worship God in peace.

There needs to be an overhaul of the gay-hate mindset among Catholics, but until then, some gays need a separate Mass and should have that option, should they choose it. This is NOT saying that all gays should be separated from straight people during Mass. I’m simply saying that, if a gay person wants to go to a Mass oriented towards living a chaste lifestyle as a gay Catholic, they should have that option.

WHY? Or if so, why not special masses for people who are recovering alcoholics or who are tempted to vipolence or kleptomania or any other sin but are trying or succeeding to beat the temptation?

You’re right—Mass should be an unifying experience. But the words “should be” is the key phrase. Catholics need to work on making Mass a group-oriented activity instead of a tedious chore to do on Sundays. If one has the latter mindset, it leads to that seemingly arrogant person at Mass who simply sits there when we’re supposed to be offering each other signs of peace.

Irrelevant and off-topic. I’ve snever seen or heard of any Catholic trying to find out if anyione in the congregation is homosexual and trying to exlcude them or make thenm feel unwelcome. Nobody wants to know. We only object to those who say in effect “I’m proud of my temptation to sodomy and you should be too”

 

[Barbkw]

The organization Dignity USA is the polor opposite of the group Courage. The Catholic Church supports the group Courage because the group’s main emphasis is chastity.

The organization Dignity USA promotes gay marriage, supports noncelibate same sex attraction, and the homosexual lifestyle. Dignity USA uses false and misleading messaging on their website when they attempt to convey that the Catholic Church will change Sacred Scripture if only the members of Dignity complain loud enough and long enough.

 

[Barbkw]

“For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.”

God will not work against a person’s free will. When a same sex attracted person decides to become noncelibate, they begin accepting the homosexual lifestyle.

As St. Paul writes about the homosexual lifestyle in that passage of Sacred Scripture - when women lust for women and men lust for men then by their sexual actions they lose their covenant relationship with God.

Same sex attracted persons in the Catholic Church do not need a separate Mass. We each go to God alone, at the end of our days, with our successes and our sins.

Chastity is a lifelong practice. Single heterosexuals and single same sex attracted persons in the Catholic Church know it is a mortal sin to engage in sex outside of marriage vows. The same goes for divorced people.

 

[wisdomseeker]

That’s not what I was saying at all. In fact, I said the opposite in my very first sentence.

Simply being gay is not a sin. The Catechism says this (2357-2359), and it says that the sin lies in homosexual acts (i.e. gay sex). So if a person is gay, they still feel alienated by the Church regardless of whether or not they are chaste simply because there is hatred for them from the Church members just because of their sexual orientation.

So there is hatred for gays, not because of their lifestyle (which many faithful gay Catholics do not live, instead they live chastely) but simply because they’re gay. That’s wrong and should be changed.

Understood, but the issue here is about same sex couples living together and wanting to have a Mass for them.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I why not special masses for people who are recovering alcoholics or who are tempted to vipolence or kleptomania or any other sin but are trying or succeeding to beat the temptation?

Because gays are “the Exception.” (Peter, see my post of 8:48 am this morning on the Westminster gay Masses thread.)

We only object to those who say in effect “I’m proud of my temptation to sodomy and you should be too”

The "you should be too" clause encapsulates the dynamic of propaganda. (In the Age of the Absolute Self, “I love it; therefore it is Good; therefore you should love it, too.”)

We should love the person, because the person, as God’s creation, is good. Our disorders can arise from lots of things – biological, environmental, willful reactions, unconscious compensation, and medications. We are not commanded to love disorders, only the people enslaved by them. But this is the problem when disorder (of any kind) is confused with identity. The two are not the same.

 

[MarianD]

I have never seen anyone on CAF express “hatred for gays”, much less do so “simply because they’re gay”.

Well I have stories of so-called “Christians” (including “Catholics”) who do express such hatred.

WHY? Or if so, why not special masses for people who are recovering alcoholics or who are tempted to vipolence or kleptomania or any other sin but are trying or succeeding to beat the temptation?

And why not? Did I ever say the people suffering from those temptations shouldn’t have the option of a Mass specific aimed at helping them in their temptation available to them, or are you just putting words in my mouth?

Why is it that Churches shouldn’t have support groups? That’s what I’m suggesting. Why is it that these support groups can’t extend to having Mass where the homilies relate specifically back to what the support group is for? This is also what I’m suggesting.

Irrelevant and off-topic. I’ve snever seen or heard of any Catholic trying to find out if anyione in the congregation is homosexual and trying to exlcude them or make thenm feel unwelcome. Nobody wants to know. We only object to those who say in effect “I’m proud of my temptation to sodomy and you should be too”

Irrelevant and off-topic, to use your words. I wasn’t implying that in the least bit.

#1: I’ve said countless times in this thread that homosexual acts are a sin and shouldn’t be promoted

#2 (specifically aimed at Elizabeth502 since she seems to imply indirectly that this is what I’m saying): I’ve never once implied that one should accept the gay lifestyle as proposed by gay celebrities as a viable alternative to a moral lifestyle. Rather, I said people should accept gays and aim to help them not succumb to their temptations instead of turning them away simply because they’re gay.

#3: I wasn’t talking about gays in that paragraph of my post, but the general atmosphere of unwelcome-ness and “Can we get this over with?” that plagues Mass-goers. Such a feeling turns anyone away from Mass. I aimed to relate that back to my main point by indirectly asking the reader to imagine how much harder it is for a gay person, who already feels unwelcome because they’re gay (even though they’re trying to not succumb to their temptations), to adjust to such an atmosphere. Anyone who is uncomfortable or has been uncomfortable in any situation will know that such an atmosphere makes it feel like you’re doing something wrong, regardless of whether or not you are.

 

[Elizabeth502]

#3: I wasn’t talking about gays in that paragraph of my post, but the general atmosphere of unwelcome-ness and “Can we get this over with?” that plagues Mass-goers. Such a feeling turns anyone away from Mass. I aimed to relate that back to my main point by indirectly asking the reader to imagine how much harder it is for a gay person, who already feels unwelcome because they’re gay (even though they’re trying to not succumb to their temptations), to adjust to such an atmosphere. Anyone who is uncomfortable or has been uncomfortable in any situation will know that such an atmosphere makes it feel like you’re doing something wrong, regardless of whether or not you are.

I don’t buy your Point #3. I see that you are in processing of converting, so perhaps you are not yet aware of this, but just FYI: No participating, or even visiting person in a parish (at Mass or not at Mass) is asked for his or her sexual-identity-credentials. Not when joining a parish, registering there, completing the RCIA journey. You don’t wear a badge that says “Straight” or “Gay.” You’re not required to wear an identifying piece of info, such as was required in Nazi Germany. You are as anonymous as you want to be. This was covered on another thread, in a conversation between myself and another poster named Rocinante (or something similar). Self-consiciousness is the “problem” only of the person who chooses to make it so. No one’s going to “out” a person, demand personal information. Nor do we confess our sins publicly, so nobody else knows if a particular member is confessing homosexual acts, heterosexual fornication or adultery, or even bestiality. (Or none of the above.)

And when you convert, you convert as an individual, just as you receive sacraments as an individual. If a person injured his spouse, his spouse is not part of the sacrament, just the person doing the confessing. We are existentially alone before God. In fact, if anything, we shed our preferences for particular people in our very paritcipation in Eucharist, if we’re doing it corectly. We unite as One Body, and our mystical (but real) membership in Christ’s Body and Blood trumps every other kind of relationship, at that moment.

This argument is an excuse, i.m.o., to further the gay agenda that says, “You have to be public about your acceptance of me, which will utlimately also require you to publicly accept my [sexual] activity.”

 

[Barbkw]

IMO, Catholic Churches should form Courage groups, or more specially chastity groups.

Most people today, opposite sex attracted or same sex attracted deal with inappropriate desires toward porn, masterbation, and “free” sex. But those inordinate desire transfer out into other areas of life as well.

“The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) defines chastity as the successful integration of sexuality within the person (no. 2337). This definition speaks of a much greater achievement than preserving one’s virginity for one’s spouse or simply remaining celibate altogether, which is how many of us were taught to view this virtue. Chastity comes under the cardinal virtue of temperance, which involves “permeating the appetites of the senses with reason”—using discernment to govern physical instinct. Obviously not every impulse we have to eat, drink, buy, take, or do is a wise one. Our values assist us in making responsible choices in all of these matters, including how to use and not misuse the sexual energy that makes us the vital people we are.”

vocation-network.org/articles/show/170

There are multiple online groups who call themselves Catholic and yet they reject Pope Benedict’s instruction to protest gay marriage and to not accept as “normal” the sexual acts of same sex attracted people.

These ‘catholic’ groups advocate for gay marriage and noncelibate relationships.