Well, I like guitars

[JHow]

And far too many who convert forget to check their protestant influences at the door.

As I think someone already pointed out, protestants have these same debates. There are groups that have no instruments, no music, or only organ, etc. It’s not uniform.

When I was protestant, if you had said “Catholic music” to me, I would first have thought of this…

youtube.com/watch?v=qUzY-W2klT4

 

[Cat]

Do you have any idea how sick traditionalists are of novelties ?

And so the answer to your weariness is to strike out at a group of fellow Christians who have not yet found their way to the True Church of Jesus?

Whether or not Gregorian chant is offered depends on the specific Baptist Community. There are many different kinds of Baptists, several hundred.

Some Baptist denominations teach, “No blacks, no slacks, no tracks,” and rock music would be considered “of the devil.”

But there are other Baptist denominations that welcome Wicca adherents to hold their meetings in the Fellowship Hall.

If you think that Baptists are simplistic in their worship music philosophies, try reading through this: fbcrockford.org/about/worship-philosophy

 

[At_Trent]

And so the answer to your weariness is to strike out at a group of fellow Christians who have not yet found their way to the True Church of Jesus?

Whether or not Gregorian chant is offered depends on the specific Baptist Community. There are many different kinds of Baptists, several hundred.

Some Baptist denominations teach, “No blacks, no slacks, no tracks,” and rock music would be considered “of the devil.”

But there are other Baptist denominations that welcome Wicca adherents to hold their meetings in the Fellowship Hall.

If you think that Baptists are simplistic in their worship music philosophies, try reading through this: fbcrockford.org/about/worship-philosophy

I never spoke of Protestants in my initial post. I spoke of converts who can’t shake their Protestant tendencies. The ones who come on here and try to convince cradle Catholics that they need to have an open mind to non traditional things being introduced into the Liturgy.

Take a deep breath and read my words before you rant in several directions.

We want your soul, not your former worldview.

 

[At_Trent]

As I think someone already pointed out, protestants have these same debates. There are groups that have no instruments, no music, or only organ, etc. It’s not uniform.

When I was protestant, if you had said “Catholic music” to me, I would first have thought of this…

youtube.com/watch?v=qUzY-W2klT4

lol, that’s a good example of the Folk boom

Now that there, I have no problem with at all. If nuns want to sing folk songs, let them enjoy it.

 

[JHow]

lol, that’s a good example of the Folk boom…

I regret posting it because now the tune is stuck in my head…

 

[Theophilus777]

I’ve seen this attempt to justify drums and tambourines at Mass elsewhere.

It fails.

Are you going to tell us why it fails? I’d personally like to examine your reasons.

 

[At_Trent]

I regret posting it because now the tune is stuck in my head…

listen to some Chant and it will go away

 

[jesuspsr]

As I think someone already pointed out, protestants have these same debates. There are groups that have no instruments, no music, or only organ, etc. It’s not uniform.

When I was protestant, if you had said “Catholic music” to me, I would first have thought of this…

youtube.com/watch?v=qUzY-W2klT4

Hey I like this.

jesus g

 

[Edward_H]

Edward H;7949213:

I’ve seen this attempt to justify drums and tambourines at Mass elsewhere.

It fails.

Are you going to tell us why it fails? I’d personally like to examine your reasons.

It fails because it’s not compelling. We don’t do everything the Bible tells us in Mass. That is there are things we are told to do, but that aren’t appropriate in Mass.

And we’re told to pray always and rejoice always…so we can play tambourines as praise in other venues that Mass.

Mass isn’t primarily celebration. It’s not about our emoting. It’s not about our drawing attention away from the sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[QueenofPeace23]

You need to go beyond mere words, cheery picked from the English version of the Mass, which are about to undergo some subtle and some substantial changes anyway in line with the rest of the Church.

The Mass is the prayer of the Church (the Body of Christ) to the Father. It includes aspects of the entire Christian existence. Adoration, Petition, Reparation, Thanksgiving, Sacrifice, and Sacramental Banquet (Celebration).

Far more than celebration.

Far more than prayer as well - this kind of sounds like George Stephanapolous when he pinned Obama down on Obamacare, and George S said this is tax. O said no, George got out the dictionary and read teh definition of a tax,a nd O said - now you’re really havingt o stretch it George - you have to read the dictionary.

To say that the word of the Mass are not defnitive of what the Mass is is preposteroorus.

 

[QueenofPeace23]

Do you have any idea how sick traditionalists are of novelties ?

It seems to me that Traditionalists are soemwhat arrogant and elitist -putting down fellow Catholics constantly.

 

[Edward_H]

Far more than prayer as well - this kind of sounds like George Stephanapolous when he pinned Obama down on Obamacare, and George S said this is tax. O said no, George got out the dictionary and read teh definition of a tax,a nd O said - now you’re really havingt o stretch it George - you have to read the dictionary.

To say that the word of the Mass are not defnitive of what the Mass is is preposteroorus.

Well the Mass has infinite value. Our principal and best contribution to the Mass is, however our prayer. Prayer is conversation with God. What could we do that would have more value? Nothing but turning our whole life into an act of love, a Mass in itself, offered to God.

Prayer can be praise, can be sacrifice, can be thanksgiving, can be adoration.

Selecting a few words out of the Mass in an attempt to summarize the Infinite is preposterous.

Suggest you go back through the Mass looking for comparable words related to sacrifice, offering, etc.

 

[QueenofPeace23]

Edward H;7949213:

I’ve seen this attempt to justify drums and tambourines at Mass elsewhere.

It fails.

Are you going to tell us why it fails? I’d personally like to examine your reasons.

Who is saying that drums and tambourines are what is being justified? What people are saying is that your way is definitely not the only way for everyone. Jesus said in my Father’s house are many mansions - but it seems you think your mansion is the only one. You say you experience such reverence etc. in Traditional massses. I grew up in them, was an altar boy etc., rememebr tiems of peace as a child. I have also experienced the Holy Spirit in profound ways in the Catholic English Mass both inside and outside of Charsimatic type prayer. The main difference I see is that I don’t sit here dn say - my way is the only way. As one who has wandered and been brought back from the abyss to the Lord, I know the many tools Jesus used to get me home, not the least of whihc is His Mother. I think it’s great the Traditional Mass is good for you. Whatever it takes or the Lord to take us safely home to Him.

 

[Edward_H]

Who is saying that drums and tambourines are what is being justified? What people are saying is that your way is definitely not the only way for everyone. Jesus said in my Father’s house are many mansions - but it seems you think your mansion is the only one. You say you experience such reverence etc. in Traditional massses. I grew up in them, was an altar boy etc., rememebr tiems of peace as a child. I have also experienced the Holy Spirit in profound ways in the Catholic English Mass both inside and outside of Charsimatic type prayer. The main difference I see is that I don’t sit here dn say - my way is the only way. As one who has wandered and been brought back from the abyss to the Lord, I know the many tools Jesus used to get me home, not the least of whihc is His Mother. I think it’s great the Traditional Mass is good for you. Whatever it takes or the Lord to take us safely home to Him.

Well, you’re putting me into buckets that I don’t acknowledge. And you’re wildly using Jesus’s words to mean any sort of thing at all.

We shouldn’t be led around by our feelings and experiences. We should be happily exhausted at the end of the Mass, not high on our own manipulated emotions.

 

[QueenofPeace23]

Well the Mass has infinite value. Our principal and best contribution to the Mass is, however our prayer. Prayer is conversation with God. What could we do that would have more value? Nothing but turning our whole life into an act of love, a Mass in itself, offered to God.

Prayer can be praise, can be sacrifice, can be thanksgiving, can be adoration.

Selecting a few words out of the Mass in an attempt to summarize the Infinite is preposterous.

Suggest you go back through the Mass looking for comparable words related to sacrifice, offering, etc.

No one is trying to summarize the Mass actually - what the original quote was was that the Mass is more of a prayer than a celebration. Thus, I was trying to show the point taht celebration is definitley tied to the Mass as a Church historically. Of course it’s prayer, sacrifice, worship, repentance, community, etc. etc. etc that is present in every Mass. I disagree firmly with someone saying "well it’s more prayer than celebration, like they understand and know all about what the Mass is and can quickly summarize what it is and is not.

The Mass is also mystery beyond our comprehension, angels present everywhere. If the angels continually praise the Lord and the Lamb for His sacrifice, tell me, is that a prayer or a celebration, or both? We celebrate feast days everyday in the Mass. We don’t say we pray the feast day today of St. … If you go back to the original quote I questioned you will see what I was referring to - it was never to say the Mss is mostly a celebration, 60/40 etc. I don’t think any of us are capable of defining fully what the Mass is and is not.

 

[Edward_H]

No one is trying to summarize the Mass actually - what the original quote was was that the Mass is more of a prayer than a celebration. Thus, I was trying to show the point taht celebration is definitley tied to the Mass as a Church historically. Of course it’s prayer, sacrifice, worship, repentance, community, etc. etc. etc that is present in every Mass. I disagree firmly with someone saying "well it’s more prayer than celebration, like they understand and know all about what the Mass is and can quickly summarize what it is and is not.

The Mass is also mystery beyond our comprehension, angels present everywhere. If the angels continually praise the Lord and the Lamb for His sacrifice, tell me, is that a prayer or a celebration, or both? We celebrate feast days everyday in the Mass. We don’t say we pray the feast day today of St. … If you go back to the original quote I questioned you will see what I was referring to - it was never to say the Mss is mostly a celebration, 60/40 etc. I don’t think any of us are capable of defining fully what the Mass is and is not.

Well IF I said that “it’s more prayer than celebration”, I apologize. I think I wanted to consider that celebration (if done with God, vs. just with us in mind) is a subset of many types of prayer.

But as you know some celebrate and emote without any mindful recognition of God. Doing so wouldn’t be prayer and not a good thing to have at Mass, and anywhere frankly. We should always have God in mind, as much as possible.

 

[MishellaLee]

It would be nice to hear a harp in mass :]… just saying…

 

[QueenofPeace23]

You need to go beyond mere words, cheery picked from the English version of the Mass, which are about to undergo some subtle and some substantial changes anyway in line with the rest of the Church.

The Mass is the prayer of the Church (the Body of Christ) to the Father. It includes aspects of the entire Christian existence. Adoration, Petition, Reparation, Thanksgiving, Sacrifice, and Sacramental Banquet (Celebration).

Far more than celebration.

No doubt, more than celebration, more than prayer, more than Worship. It is where the Body and Blood of Jesus become present to us.

Staying on the celebration theme, for those trying to downplay the Mass as a celebration to justify their point that we shouldn’t sing and praise with anything other than organ or chant, and responding to " English version of the Mass, which are about to undergo some subtle and some substantial changes anyway in line with the rest of the Church.":
Here are a few quotes from the revised Mass you referred to:

1. The Priest invites the faithful to make the Penitential Act:
   Brethren (brothers and sisters), let us acknowledge our sins,
   and so prepare ourselves to celebrate the sacred mysteries.

Then the Priest, with hands extended, says:
Therefore, O Lord,
as we celebrate the memorial of the blessed Passion,
the Resurrection from the dead,
and the glorious Ascension into heaven
of Christ, your Son, our Lord,
we, your servants and your holy people,
offer to your glorious majesty
from the gifts that you have given us,
this pure victim,
this holy victim,
this spotless victim,
the holy Bread of eternal life
and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.

Then the Priest, with hands extended, says:
Therefore, as we celebrate
the memorial of his Death and Resurrection,
we offer you, Lord,
the Bread of life and the Chalice of salvation,
giving thanks that you have held us worthy
to be in your presence and minister to you.

that they may become the Body and  Blood
of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ,
He joins his hands.
at whose command we **celebrate **these mysteries.

My note (Jesus commanded us to Celebrate these mysteries?)

1. Then the Priest, with hands extended, says:
   Therefore, O Lord, as we celebrate the memorial of the saving Passion of your Son,
   his wondrous Resurrection and Ascension into heaven, and as we look forward to his second coming, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice.
2. Then, with hands extended, the Priest says:
   Therefore, O Lord,
   as we now celebrate the memorial of our redemption,
   we remember Christ’s Death
   and his descent to the realm of the dead,…

 

[Edward_H]

You missed my earlier point. You have celebration on your mind…and you put on glasses that only see the word celebration.

Let me take the very text you gave us, and highlight some other words.

Then the Priest, with hands extended, says:
Therefore, O Lord,
as we celebrate the memorial of the blessed Passion,
the Resurrection from the dead,
and the glorious Ascension into heaven
of Christ, your Son, our Lord,
we, your servants and your holy people,
offer to your glorious majesty
from the gifts that you have given us,
this pure victim,
this holy victim,
this spotless victim,
the holy Bread of eternal life
and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.

Then the Priest, with hands extended, says:
Therefore, as we celebrate
the memorial of his Death and Resurrection,
we offer you, Lord,
the Bread of life and the Chalice of salvation,
giving thanks that you have held us worthy
to be in your presence and minister to you.

that they may become the Body and  Blood
of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ,
He joins his hands.
at whose command we celebrate these mysteries.

Then the Priest, with hands extended, says:
Therefore, O Lord, as we celebrate the memorial of the saving Passion of your Son,
his wondrous Resurrection and Ascension into heaven, and as we look forward to his second coming, we offer you in thanksgiving this holy and living sacrifice.

1. Then, with hands extended, the Priest says:
   Therefore, O Lord,
   as we now celebrate the memorial of our redemption,
   we remember Christ’s Death
   and his descent to the realm of the dead,…

And by the way…your entire passage is not from the Mass itself…I mean the priest doesn’t repeat these phrases as you’ve shown here.

Go to ANY Eucharistic prayer and underline sacrifice / offering verbs and objects.

 

[Sarika]

As for me, I find that I feel closest to God and gain more insight into living like Christ at a more modern mass and I don’t see why its wrong for those of us who feel this way to do so.

Christ’s Peace, Irish Eyes! I think I can understand where you’re coming from, and it is a way I felt many years ago before coming to understand what the Mass was. I was poorly catechized as a youth, but when I finally understood that the Mass was different than a mega church praise and worship service, my thoughts changed.

I finally realized that it wasn’t how I “felt” about the Mass that was important. It is a “sacred” action, totally “other”, as is shown by the sacred vessels, vestments,
art and architecture, which are meant to be “set aside” for sacred use only. Therefore,
the music and instruments used need to be sacred in style as well. The music should
be something that would not be heard outside of the liturgy in our day to day lives.

For just this one hour a week, we can set aside our secular styles of entertainment, and worship God in the way that he has asked: with reverence.

The priest uses sacred vessels to hold the Precious Body and Blood of Our Lord. He doesn’t use soda pop cans or dixie cups to be more “relevent”. He dresses in sacred vestments, not in running shorts and a Hard Rock Cafe t-shirt. There are certain requirements for the construction of the altar, etc. By the same token, the Church has
spoken to us time after time about the music and instruments used.