Well, I'm Catholic now

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Honestly, I do not.
Do you understand how a student would try to do a math problem, not get the same answer as the Teacher, and think, “I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”?
 
Do you understand how a student would try to do a math problem, not get the same answer as the Teacher, and think, “I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”?
I understand your interpretation of what he is saying, however, his quote does not mention a teacher. What analogy do you think he is making?
 
I understand your interpretation of what he is saying, however, his quote does not mention a teacher. What analogy do you think he is making?
Let’s not go back to Newman’s quote just yet.

So you understand this: “I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”, right?
 
Let’s not go back to Newman’s quote just yet.

So you understand this: “I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”, right?
Applying that to mathematics I understand that, yes, because the correct answer has not been determined by the teacher himself.
 
Applying that to mathematics I understand that, yes, because the correct answer has not been determined by the teacher himself.
Great.

So don’t just apply it to mathematics. Apply it to Christian doctrine.

“I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”.

That is:

“I know my answer is wrong and -]the Teacher’s/-] Jesus’ is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as -]the Teacher/-] Jesus”

Remember, if your god never disagrees with you, you may be worshipping an idolized version of yourself, as Pastor Tim Keller states.
 
Great.

So don’t just apply it to mathematics. Apply it to Christian doctrine.

“I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”.

That is:

“I know my answer is wrong and -]the Teacher’s/-] Jesus’ is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as -]the Teacher/-] Jesus”

Remember, if your god never disagrees with you, you may be worshipping an idolized version of yourself, as Pastor Tim Keller states.
Or Thomas Jefferson.
 
Great.

So don’t just apply it to mathematics. Apply it to Christian doctrine.

“I know my answer is wrong and the Teacher’s is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as the Teacher”.

That is:

“I know my answer is wrong and -]the Teacher’s/-] Jesus’ is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as -]the Teacher/-] Jesus”

Remember, if your god never disagrees with you, you may be worshipping an idolized version of yourself, as Pastor Tim Keller states.
Isn’t that just how the Reformation came into existence? “I know the answer the Catholic Church gives is wrong and Jesus’ is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as Jesus”. ?
 
Isn’t that just how the Reformation came into existence? “I know the answer the Catholic Church gives is wrong and Jesus’ is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as Jesus”. ?
Except the ONLY way you know what Jesus said is…through the Catholic Church.

You wouldn’t know it any other way, right? Unless you happen to have some private revelation?

Yes?
 
In my high school math class our teacher was anxious one day to prove to the class that through mathematical equations 1 can equal 0. He tried and tried to write it on the blackboard in front of the whole class and became exasperated when he could not make it work. When he finally gave up one of the top students in the class offered a suggestion and sure enough it solved the problem and now 1 was indeed shown to equal 0 by mathematical processing. **Then the teacher got angry with the brilliant student. **
Hi Wannano. I tried to stay out of your conversation with PRm, but I read the above post (couldn’t help myself, it’s about math :D) and have to say that your teacher reminds me of the Pharisees in … well, a number of Gospel passages. Hard to pick one. (But at least he wasn’t angry enough to want to kill the student, was he?)
 
Can you tell me how you know Jesus’ revelation without the Catholic Church then?

And back to the analogy: we can see, then, how any Christian should conform his views to Christ’s, even though he personally cannot understand how Christ’s teaching is the right answer?

So, for example, does your pastor marry divorced people in your church?
 
I have meant to write something for a while. Now that I’m Catholic, the difficulties of rightly expressing my view have only increased, so I had almost given up on the idea.

I am never going to contradict firmly something proposed by the Church to be firmly held, as the male-only priesthood is. My own private theological judgment is that the arguments against women’s ordination aren’t very convincing. I have expressed that view quite often on this forum, but you’re right, I haven’t written it on my blog.

One of the problems with this forum for me (and now with FB) has always been that it distracts me from actual blogging. I find it much easier to respond impromptu to other people’s posts than to write something semi-permanent on a “blank sheet of paper” as it were.

Edwin
When JPII outlined the reasons for a male only priesthood, he was, of course, addressing fellow Catholics, not anyone else. After all, this isn’t a doctrinal issue that most of our Protestant ecclesial bodies even consider worth bothering about, even though most of them had male-only ministers for most of their histories. And most of them really had no real theological reasons for excluding women from the ordained ministry, except that it “just wasn’t done.”

But the Church has always had theological reasons for a male-only priesthood, but like many other issues of doctrine, they weren’t put forward (or at least not debated) because it simply hadn’t come up (or not seriously). The Catholic priesthood isn’t a matter of societal norms–ancient or modern, so that’s not even a consideration.

Rather, (and putting it as succinctly as possible for a forum post) the Catholic priesthood is the fulfillment of the OT priesthood of Melchizedek, as St. Paul discusses in Hebrews 5. It is a patriarchal priesthood which satisfies for the particular sin of Adam–not that of Eve, but of Adam. And what was Adam’s sin that she did not commit? He did not offer himself for her when she fell into sin, but joined her in disobedience.

As the head in authority over Eve (but not in dignity) it was his to correct her fault and offer himself for her–he failed in his duty to her and to God. Jesus, by being incarnate as a male and offering himself as both priest and sacrifice–as husband of the bride, his bride, made reparation for Adam’s sin and set up the male priesthood to perpetuate his sacrifice for Adam’s sin–as well as Eve’s, of course.

Now, JPII gave sufficient reasons for Catholics to understand and give their consent to the doctrine. As the pope, that’s all he has to do to expect compliance. Looking into it more deeply, scripturally and spiritually, the roots and meaning of the male priesthood go beyond mere sexual parts and societal roles. They go to the very core of Christ’s priesthood and his sacrifice for the whole human race. He established his priesthood to satisfy for the sin of Adam (who had the greater responsibility)–and of Eve, and of all of us.

It has to be remembered that Christ’s sacrifice is an eternal one, not merely set in Palestine 2000 years ago. It is a perpetual sacrifice, eternally offered to the Father. When Christ returns it will no longer be offered on altars throughout the world. But, until then, we offer it as he ordained, through whom he ordained, and as he ordained as a sign of the eternal satisfaction for the sin of Adam.
 
Hi Wannano. I tried to stay out of your conversation with PRm, but I read the above post (couldn’t help myself, it’s about math :D) and have to say that your teacher reminds me of the Pharisees in … well, a number of Gospel passages. Hard to pick one. (But at least he wasn’t angry enough to want to kill the student, was he?)
He really was hard on that student from that time on. And this is a true life story by the way. 🙂
 
I have now read through most of your blogs and have an appreciation for your viewpoint on most things.
Any one (or two or three as the case may be) in particular? I’m interested but don’t have too much time to devote to it.
 
Can you tell me how you know Jesus’ revelation without the Catholic Church then?

And back to the analogy: we can see, then, how any Christian should conform his views to Christ’s, even though he personally cannot understand how Christ’s teaching is the right answer?

So, for example, does your pastor marry divorced people in your church?
The Church Jesus started was the church catholic.

Our pastor has not yet married divorced people in our church. Neither have we created something called “annullment” to get around all that. 😃
 
Any one (or two or three as the case may be) in particular? I’m interested but don’t have too much time to devote to it.
Yes, but I will have to go back and reference thm. Right now I just “gotta go”.
 
The Church Jesus started was the church catholic.

Our pastor has not yet married divorced people in our church. Neither have we created something called “annullment” to get around all that. 😃
Annulment is not the dissolution of marriage. It is a declaration that no sacramental marriage took place. Please, if you are going to direct darts at Church teachings, please be accurate about it. 😉
 
Isn’t that just how the Reformation came into existence? “I know the answer the Catholic Church gives is wrong and Jesus’ is right, so let me try to re-conform, re-configure my computations until I come to the same answer as Jesus”. ?
But in the analogy, the “answer” is precisely about what Jesus wants. To say “I know Jesus’ answer is right” presupposes that you know already what Jesus’ answer is, which is the point under discussion. It’s to assume that you have a direct line to Jesus’ mind. And the early Protestants really did think, I believe, that Scripture gave them that, with proper humanist methods of interpretation of course. They were clearly wrong.

For another thing, Luther actually had to sideline the Synoptic Gospels, which most of us would think tell us quite a bit about “Jesus’ answer,” in order to get the answer he wanted.
 
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