Went to my first Life Teen mass

[Chris-WA]

Normally I attend a Sunday morning mass with my kids, but this weekend we had a scheduling conflict so I went to the Life Teen mass on Sunday evening. I have some mixed feelings on the experience. There were some parts I thought were very beautiful, such as when all the high-schoolers were called down to stand near the alter during the Eucharistic prayer. I figure that teens normally ‘check out’ for that part of the mass, but having them down near the action seems like a good approach to getting them right there in the middle of it where they can’t help but witness the miracle of the Eucharist.

But now to the bad part–the rock and roll music style was way out of line for the liturgy. It felt like I was at a Christian rock concert, with the familiar parts of the mass scattered throughout. It was like a roller coaster of emotion–one second the ‘band’ is rocking down the house and the next second we go into a quiet prayer said by the priest. Then back to the rock concert, then back to the mass. This back and forth seemed so rediculous to me, so not how mass is supposed to be. After witnessing this, I cannot see how anyone can possibly justify this kind of music for the liturgy. It’s loud, rock-concert entertainment for teens. Where’s the reverence?

I get why we do this–the church knows that it’s losing teens left and right and they want to compete with the fun Protestant churches who have youth activities and draw away Catholics. But is this really the right way to go about it? Do we change the mass into a rock concert in order to keep teens interested? I’m not so sure, and I think there could be a better way to reach teens without turning the mass into a cool show.

 

[benedictgal]

Normally I attend a Sunday morning mass with my kids, but this weekend we had a scheduling conflict so I went to the Life Teen mass on Sunday evening. I have some mixed feelings on the experience. There were some parts I thought were very beautiful, such as when all the high-schoolers were called down to stand near the alter during the Eucharistic prayer. I figure that teens normally ‘check out’ for that part of the mass, but having them down near the action seems like a good approach to getting them right there in the middle of it where they can’t help but witness the miracle of the Eucharist.

But now to the bad part–the rock and roll music style was way out of line for the liturgy. It felt like I was at a Christian rock concert, with the familiar parts of the mass scattered throughout. It was like a roller coaster of emotion–one second the ‘band’ is rocking down the house and the next second we go into a quiet prayer said by the priest. Then back to the rock concert, then back to the mass. This back and forth seemed so rediculous to me, so not how mass is supposed to be. After witnessing this, I cannot see how anyone can possibly justify this kind of music for the liturgy. It’s loud, rock-concert entertainment for teens.

I get why we do this–the church knows that it’s losing teens left and right and they want to compete with the fun Protestant churches who have youth activities and draw away Catholics. But is this really the right way to go about it? Do we change the mass into a rock concert in order to keep teens interested? I’m not so sure, and I think there could be a better way to reach teens without turning the mass into a cool show.

In another Life Teen post, I (along with several others) noted that it is a reprobated, prohibited practice that the “kids” surround the altar. Cardinal Arinze made it perfectly clear that it should cease.

If you read the articles in www.adoreums.org that the site has archived for Cardinal Arinze, you will find his remarks very telling on music. Pope Benedict (as Cardinal Ratzinger) has repeatedly denounced having “rock music” during the Mass. He makes an excellent argument against this notion in his monumental work, The Spirit of the Liturgy.

Run, don’t walk away from this travesty.

 

[Chris-WA]

In another Life Teen post, I (along with several others) noted that it is a reprobated, prohibited practice that the “kids” surround the altar. Cardinal Arinze made it perfectly clear that it should cease.

If you read the articles in www.adoreums.org that the site has archived for Cardinal Arinze, you will find his remarks very telling on music. Pope Benedict (as Cardinal Ratzinger) has repeatedly denounced having “rock music” during the Mass. He makes an excellent argument against this notion in his monumental work, The Spirit of the Liturgy.

Run, don’t walk away from this travesty.

Funny, because I already have The Spirit of the Liturgy. I just haven’t read it yet. I guess I need to get that book read!

I’ve made previous posts on problems with liturgical music, as to what is proper and improper for the mass. There seems to be some guidance out there, but after doing a little research it seems the Church has not come out with any real binding limitations on what is acceptable or not acceptable when it comes to liturgical music style. Church documents encourage the use of the organ and the use of Gregorian chant (which some parishes seem to outright ignore), but I haven’t seen much in the way of limitations as to what styles/instruments are unacceptable for the liturgy. I’ve read things stating that lyrics must be consistent with Catholic teaching, but acceptable styles of music seems to be somewhat nebulous.

And we all know that unless the Church really gets specific on what it considers acceptable and unacceptable styles of liturgical music, each individual parish will take license to do whatever the local laity wants, especially if the pastor doesn’t have the guts to put his foot down, or even worse, when the pastor himself doesn’t seem to have a good sense of what is appropriate for mass. If an inch is given by the magisterium, the masses always seem to take a mile.

 

[benedictgal]

Funny, because I already have The Spirit of the Liturgy. I just haven’t read it yet. I guess I need to get that book read!

I’ve made previous posts on problems with liturgical music, as to what is proper and improper for the mass. There seems to be some guidance out there, but after doing a little research it seems the Church has not come out with any real binding limitations on what is acceptable or not acceptable when it comes to liturgical music style. Church documents encourage the use of the organ and the use of Gregorian chant (which some parishes seem to outright ignore), but I haven’t seen much in the way of limitations as to what styles/instruments are unacceptable for the liturgy. I’ve read things stating that lyrics must be consistent with Catholic teaching, but acceptable styles of music seems to be somewhat nebulous.

And we all know that unless the Church really gets specific on what it considers acceptable and unacceptable styles of liturgical music, each individual parish will take license to do whatever the local laity wants, especially if the pastor doesn’t have the guts to put his foot down, or even worse, when the pastor himself doesn’t seem to have a good sense of what is appropriate for mass. If an inch is given by the magisterium, the masses always seem to take a mile.

The USCCB is currently working on a document regarding sacred music. The often-quoted Music in Catholic Worship (although formulated by the Bishops Committee on Liturgy) was never voted on by the entire USCCB and is full of errors. Recognizing the hornets’ nest the document opened up, Rome has asked that the texts for sacred music conform to Liturgicam Authenticam. There is a power point presentation at the USCCB website outlining the document that that they are presently studying. Here is the link:

usccb.org/liturgy/MUSIC%20FDLCnew.ppt

Unfortunately, the National Pastoral Musicians conference is trying to hijack the document and asked the Federation of Diocesan Liturgical Commissions to pass a resolution asking the bishops to, in effect, maintain the status quo.

The Holy Father, for his part, is establishing an office of Sacred Music. As a musician, he believes in maintaining the solemnity of liturgical music. After all, he said in Sacramentum Caritatis that “one song is not as good as another” when it comes to the Mass.

 

[VociMike]

Well, this thread will no doubt be getting ugly. But…here are my feeling on the matter.

Most parishes celebrate dull, uninspiring, lifeless Masses. That is not to say, of course, that they are invalid Masses, but that they are just awful at speaking to the whole human person and their need and desire to worship God in beauty and reverence and joy. Instead of bringing the faithful to a sober inebriation, they bring them to a state of enui.

One common reaction to this is to ratchet up the “energy”. More community! Must sing louder! Must hold hands! More gestures! Must this! Must that! More volts! More amps! Priests demanding, cantors waving frantically, incessant fiddling with every aspect of the liturgy. Life Teen is, IMO, one form of this ratcheting. Of course teens are put off by the average parish Mass - plenty of others are as well. So in comes more “energy”. In comes more “relevance”. In comes more “community”. Lots more volts, lots more amps! All based on what some baby-boomers think teens will respond to. And sure enough, it is more “interesting” than the average parish enui-Mass. Like that’s hard to achieve. Not just to teens, either - lots of older folks find it more interesting too.

But, it’s no deeper. It doesn’t really provide any more of the beauty and reverence and joy that the worship of God can and should offer. It’s more volts and amps, but it just causes the enui-Mass to twitch a little more vigorously. In the end the yawn factor is just the same.

Contrast this to the real answer. Return to the life-giving roots of Catholic liturgy. Return to the beauty and reverence and joy of the liturgy (Novus Ordo or Extraordinary Form, Latin or vernacular) celebrated with solemn reverence, sober inebriation, beauty. Return to sacred music that is truly part of the treasure of inestimable value. Return to the Mass as actually envisioned by the Council Fathers and found in the Missal/Missale. Stop trying (badly! lamely! pathetically!) to be something else. Just be the Mass, as Catholicism has understood and celebrated it from the beginning.

Teens will and do respond to authentic worship. Everybody does. They respond to sacred mystery, holy solemnity, beauty that flows from true art. Everybody does. And the Church used to know how to do this. In a few places she still does. Go back to the life-giving roots. Celebrate the Mass with sanctity, art, beauty, reverence, mystery, and they will come.

 

[japhy]

Most parishes celebrate dull, uninspiring, lifeless Masses.

One common reaction to this is to ratchet up the “energy”. More community! Must sing louder! Must hold hands! More gestures! Must this! Must that! More volts! More amps!

But, it’s no deeper.

Right. It ends up even shallower.

 

[Chris-WA]

Most parishes celebrate dull, uninspiring, lifeless Masses. That is not to say, of course, that they are invalid Masses, but that they are just awful at speaking to the whole human person and their need and desire to worship God in beauty and reverence and joy. Instead of bringing the faithful to a sober inebriation, they bring them to a state of enui.

Could it also be that we as laity have such a lack of understanding of what is going on in the mass that we are largely unable to appreciate its beauty and depth, whether or not the homily is lousy or the music isn’t so inspiring? I know I thought mass was often boring until I read Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper. It was then that I was opened up to the history and reasons behind why we do what we do, and then I started to love the mass and appreciate its beauty, depth, and power. Perhaps we need to all learn the “why’s” before we can truly appreciate the mass.

One common reaction to this is to ratchet up the “energy”. More community! Must sing louder! Must hold hands! More gestures! Must this! Must that! More volts! More amps! Priests demanding, cantors waving frantically, incessant fiddling with every aspect of the liturgy. Life Teen is, IMO, one form of this ratcheting. Of course teens are put off by the average parish Mass - plenty of others are as well. So in comes more “energy”. In comes more “relevance”. In comes more “community”. Lots more volts, lots more amps! All based on what some baby-boomers think teens will respond to. And sure enough, it is more “interesting” than the average parish enui-Mass. Like that’s hard to achieve. Not just to teens, either - lots of older folks find it more interesting too.

Excellent points. What we effectively have done is made mass more entertaining, and in doing so have damaged reverence, sacredness, and our connection with tradition. Has this increased faith? I don’t think so. In fact, I would argue the opposite.

But, it’s no deeper. It doesn’t really provide any more of the beauty and reverence and joy that the worship of God can and should offer. It’s more volts and amps, but it just causes the enui-Mass to twitch a little more vigorously. In the end the yawn factor is just the same.

I couldn’t agree with you more. I would even say that as we’ve dumbed down the mass to fill seats, the commitment level is certainly no higher. I’m sure you could easily make the argument, based on various indicators like numbers of priestly vocations per number of laity, tithing, mass attendance, confession, dress at mass, etc, that compared to the 1950’s we have gone downhill.

Contrast this to the real answer. Return to the life-giving roots of Catholic liturgy. Return to the beauty and reverence and joy of the liturgy (Novus Ordo or Extraordinary Form, Latin or vernacular) celebrated with solemn reverence, sober inebriation, beauty. Return to sacred music that is truly part of the treasure of inestimable value. Return to the Mass as actually envisioned by the Council Fathers and found in the Missal/Missale. Stop trying (badly! lamely! pathetically!) to be something else. Just be the Mass, as Catholicism has understood and celebrated it from the beginning.

I think your solution is right on. As someone born in the early 70’s, I’ve probably never witnessed this kind of mass, but there is a desire in my heart for it. I hope we are headed in this direction as a Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

actually, I disagree (in part with OP) about the relative priorities of what goes on at LT. the part where teens gather around the altar is an abuse, LT has been warned to stop it, officially they have, but there still may be some parishes where they do it. It is against the “official” LT liturgical directives. the good part is that their catechesis (outside Mass and in a teaching situation early in the year) they are carefully led through the prayers and parts of the Mass so they do get a much better understanding.

the rock style music is fine as long as the lyrics are for songs that actually fit the liturgy, the season the part of the Mass etc and are not heretical. you and I don’t like the style, but if they do, it is not a real problem per se (you and I just know now to attend an earlier Mass). incidentally, the music and choir is a great way to get teens involved in the Mass, helps them learn the parts, as long as their leader is sensitive to matching music with appropriate action in the Mass, and is a much better alternative to “let’s hold hands around the altar”.

I will only observe that we have many teens in our HS program who have defected from the neighboring parish because they hate LT (the only thing offered there) and those who have become active in music here avoid the Mass that is supposed to be the “youth Mass” because they can’t stand the 70s-80s style of the music especially those Gather and Glory and Praise things. They glommed on the Latin in the “old folks” Mass.

it also depends on what you mean by “rock music”. If you mean contemporary Christian pop music the typical music station, with mostly praise and worship music, that IMO is a much better alternative to the specifically Catholic bad-pseudo-folk-songs-masquerading-as-hymns that are found in the standard Catholic missalettes a la OCP and cohorts.

 

[benedictgal]

it also depends on what you mean by “rock music”. If you mean contemporary Christian pop music the typical music station, with mostly praise and worship music, that IMO is a much better alternative to the specifically Catholic bad-pseudo-folk-songs-masquerading-as-hymns that are found in the standard Catholic missalettes a la OCP and cohorts.

It is obvious that you have not read The Spirit of the Liturgy by then-Joseph Cardnial Ratzinger wherein he makes several points as to why this particular kind of music is not suitable for Catholic Worship. In the section in music, he makes the distinction between music that evokes reason and sobriety (Apollan, as in the Greek god Apollo) annd music that generates frenzy (Dionysian, as in the Greek god Dionysis). I’ll put the citations in another post because it’s a huge chunk.

In another thread, there have been some who put little stock in having guidelines and norms for sacred music with the belief that it’s all relative. The same Joseph Ratzinger also warned us against the dictatorship of relativism. He makes that same point, now as Pope, when he writes in Sacramentum Caritatis, that one song is not as good as another.

As much as you love LT, it has created more problems and has contributed to liturgical abuse. In another post, someone had said that LT had an indult from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. An indult doesn’t guarantee perpetuity. In fact, some of them have, mercifully, been allowed to expire.

Having said that, I am not against young people having the opportunity to express themselves. I am not very old; however, to do so in the context of the Mass using music that goes against what the Church has held is wrong.

 

[puzzleannie]

It is obvious that you have not read The Spirit of the Liturgy by then-Joseph Cardnial Ratzinger wherein he makes several points as to why this particular kind of music is not suitable for Catholic Worship. .

as I pointed out OP did not specify what she meant by rock music, and there is a wide variety out there, some good, some bad. Just because it is written in English and in the 20th or 21st century does not make it “rock music”. that being said, yes I have read it, yes I agree with the points made, but the real abuse in the LT Mass is the standing about the altar, the music issue is a peripheral.

since you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of musicians and cantors who are competent to play and render traditional sacred music properly, we will be victims of “contemporary” music for some time to come, so let us at least be selective about the lyrics of that music, its place in liturgy (if any) and the skill of those performing it.

 

[benedictgal]

as I pointed out OP did not specify what she meant by rock music, and there is a wide variety out there, some good, some bad. Just because it is written in English and in the 20th or 21st century does not make it “rock music”. that being said, yes I have read it, yes I agree with the points made, but the real abuse in the LT Mass is the standing about the altar, the music issue is a peripheral.

since you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of musicians and cantors who are competent to play and render traditional sacred music properly, we will be victims of “contemporary” music for some time to come, so let us at least be selective about the lyrics of that music, its place in liturgy (if any) and the skill of those performing it.

Liturgical music is not meant to be “performed”. We are not gong to a concert. We are there for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Incidentally, Benedict makes some very stirring remarks about “rock music”, explaining why it cannot and should not be used during the Mass. Cardinal Arinze also made the same statements. Some time this evening (after, incidentally, a rock concert that is supposed to raise funds for our animal shelter), I’ll try and type up what Pope Benedict said (as Ratzinger) and what Cardinal Arinze has also said.

 

[palmas85]

Normally I attend a Sunday morning mass with my kids, but this weekend we had a scheduling conflict so I went to the Life Teen mass on Sunday evening. I have some mixed feelings on the experience. There were some parts I thought were very beautiful, such as when all the high-schoolers were called down to stand near the alter during the Eucharistic prayer. I figure that teens normally ‘check out’ for that part of the mass, but having them down near the action seems like a good approach to getting them right there in the middle of it where they can’t help but witness the miracle of the Eucharist.

But now to the bad part–the rock and roll music style was way out of line for the liturgy. It felt like I was at a Christian rock concert, with the familiar parts of the mass scattered throughout. It was like a roller coaster of emotion–one second the ‘band’ is rocking down the house and the next second we go into a quiet prayer said by the priest. Then back to the rock concert, then back to the mass. This back and forth seemed so rediculous to me, so not how mass is supposed to be. After witnessing this, I cannot see how anyone can possibly justify this kind of music for the liturgy. It’s loud, rock-concert entertainment for teens. Where’s the reverence?

I get why we do this–the church knows that it’s losing teens left and right and they want to compete with the fun Protestant churches who have youth activities and draw away Catholics. But is this really the right way to go about it? Do we change the mass into a rock concert in order to keep teens interested? I’m not so sure, and I think there could be a better way to reach teens without turning the mass into a cool show.

No you are obviously mistaken. The Life Teen advocates have repeatedly demonstrated on this forum that Life Teen groups, in humble obedience and fidelity to the Holy Father have stopped doing this. Admit it, you made the whole thing up didn’t you?

 

[puzzleannie]

there are a lot of issues besides music to discuss with regard to LT. that is being done on several threads on the topic. there are also several threads on music for Mass, where that issue is discussed. I suggest since this thread is derailed those participants move over to the threads that relate to their particular interest.

 

[agapewolf]

No you are obviously mistaken. The Life Teen advocates have repeatedly demonstrated on this forum that Life Teen groups, in humble obedience and fidelity to the Holy Father have stopped doing this. Admit it, you made the whole thing up didn’t you?

palmas, I don’t want to get into this with you…

however, I have never EVER spitefully suggested that you haven’t experienced disobedience. In fact, I believe that I have graciously acknowleged that it does exist, and it is very unfortunate. I have never suggested that you “made it up”.

However, I myself have my own experiences in many many various settings, where people ARE being gracious and obedient…in fact, it is the majority. The only parishes I am aware of that I have seen being disobedient in this stance are not considering themselves lifeteen (although they may go on the LT list merely because they subscribe to the materials). and you are spitefully suggesting that my experience is not true.

This is unfair, unfounded, and just plain mean. I grant that you have your experience, why not allow me to have mine, and actually trust that my experience JUST MIGHT have some truth to it as well, instead of accusing me of lying.

To the other posters, if you will please search the past threads, I have given an honest witness to my experience with LT…it bringing me back into the faith, as well as hundreds of teens around me in my city (that I am involved with at diocesan events).
Disobedience is not good. I’m not praising any disobedience. I’m praising the fact that this program does excellent work.

 

[benedictgal]

palmas, I don’t want to get into this with you…

however, I have never EVER spitefully suggested that you haven’t experienced disobedience. In fact, I believe that I have graciously acknowleged that it does exist, and it is very unfortunate. I have never suggested that you “made it up”.

However, I myself have my own experiences in many many various settings, where people ARE being gracious and obedient…in fact, it is the majority. The only parishes I am aware of that I have seen being disobedient in this stance are not considering themselves lifeteen (although they may go on the LT list merely because they subscribe to the materials). and you are spitefully suggesting that my experience is not true.

This is unfair, unfounded, and just plain mean. I grant that you have your experience, why not allow me to have mine, and actually trust that my experience JUST MIGHT have some truth to it as well, instead of accusing me of lying.

To the other posters, if you will please search the past threads, I have given an honest witness to my experience with LT…it bringing me back into the faith, as well as hundreds of teens around me in my city (that I am involved with at diocesan events).
Disobedience is not good. I’m not praising any disobedience. I’m praising the fact that this program does excellent work.

I have, that’s why I’m surprised it took you this long to leap into action.

No matter how you slice it and no matter how much you love LT, there are some serious errors that need to be fixed. Indults don’t last a lifetime. Some, as was the case with the TLM have been moved to a special status (as the Holy Father did over the summer), while others have been mercifully allowed to expire (purification of vessels by EMHC). Look, I love the Cursillo movement, but they have some serious flaws in their liturgies. Of course, the biggest violator, apart from LT is the Neochatechumenal Movement which was told directly by the Pope to ceae and desist their bizarre liturgical practices. LT is certainly a case of a seriously flawed and borken approach that needs to be fixed.

 

[palmas85]

palmas, I don’t want to get into this with you…

however, I have never EVER spitefully suggested that you haven’t experienced disobedience. In fact, I believe that I have graciously acknowleged that it does exist, and it is very unfortunate. I have never suggested that you “made it up”.

However, I myself have my own experiences in many many various settings, where people ARE being gracious and obedient…in fact, it is the majority. The only parishes I am aware of that I have seen being disobedient in this stance are not considering themselves lifeteen (although they may go on the LT list merely because they subscribe to the materials). and you are spitefully suggesting that my experience is not true.

This is unfair, unfounded, and just plain mean. I grant that you have your experience, why not allow me to have mine, and actually trust that my experience JUST MIGHT have some truth to it as well, instead of accusing me of lying.

To the other posters, if you will please search the past threads, I have given an honest witness to my experience with LT…it bringing me back into the faith, as well as hundreds of teens around me in my city (that I am involved with at diocesan events).
Disobedience is not good. I’m not praising any disobedience. I’m praising the fact that this program does excellent work.

Agape you chose to put the shoe on your foot and declare to everyone here that it fit you. I never mentioned you and in fact you are just one of many who try to defend the LifeTeen events,

How is it mean for me to point out the truth. Hey, if Life Teen stopped these abuses from happening, as they say they have done, then there would be no need to point things out, now would there. I;m happy for you that this group madee an impact in your life that was positive. As I have said on here I’m sure there must be good Life Teen events floating around.I just have never been graced to find one. But then again maybe there is a need forpeople like me who are willing to see things as they really are and point them out.

Otherwise things that are broken never get fixed.

 

[Chris-WA]

as I pointed out OP did not specify what she meant by rock music, and there is a wide variety out there, some good, some bad. Just because it is written in English and in the 20th or 21st century does not make it “rock music”. that being said, yes I have read it, yes I agree with the points made, but the real abuse in the LT Mass is the standing about the altar, the music issue is a peripheral.

since you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of musicians and cantors who are competent to play and render traditional sacred music properly, we will be victims of “contemporary” music for some time to come, so let us at least be selective about the lyrics of that music, its place in liturgy (if any) and the skill of those performing it.

Very well, I will clarify. First I will clarify that the OP (me) is a he, not a she. Now, as for what I mean by rock music–I mean the scruffy looking guys dressed in t-shirts and shredded jeans, rocking out with electric guitars and drum sets with a loudness approaching a level where there is slight pain in your ears until they start to become a little numb. You know, where the music is so loud you can barely hear the lyrics. No matter what my personal tastes may be, I fail to see how this style of music could ever be appropriate under any circumstances for the sacred liturgy. Mind you, I’m only 37 and have a decent collection of Van Halen and Rush CD’s at my home, but I know the difference between secular and sacred music. One is appropriate for mass, and one is not. Are there not any limits to the style of music used for liturgy? If so, what would that be?

I think we may have a case here of the end justifying the means–the end being getting teens to mass and the means being the use of rock music to lure them there. But as we all should know, the end doesn’t necessarily justifiy the means. We should not mess with the mass in order to make it interesting for different groups of people. Maybe the people (us) should bend our will to the sacred mass rather than us finding ways to make the mass more interesting for us.

 

[VociMike]

Very well, I will clarify. First I will clarify that the OP (me) is a he, not a she. Now, as for what I mean by rock music–I mean the scruffy looking guys dressed in t-shirts and shredded jeans, rocking out with electric guitars and drum sets with a loudness approaching a level where there is slight pain in your ears until they start to become a little numb. You know, where the music is so loud you can barely hear the lyrics. No matter what my personal tastes may be, I fail to see how this style of music could ever be appropriate under any circumstances for the sacred liturgy. Mind you, I’m only 37 and have a decent collection of Van Halen and Rush CD’s at my home, but I know the difference between secular and sacred music. One is appropriate for mass, and one is not. Are there not any limits to the style of music used for liturgy? If so, what would that be?

Thanks for that clarification. Now let’s recall the Church’s requirements for sacred music. It must be:

Holy
True Art
Universal

And further, “the more closely a composition for the Church approaches the Gregorian form in its movement, inspiration and savor the more sacred and liturgical it becomes; and the more out of harmony it is with that supreme model, the less worthy it is of the temple.”

Anybody think the music above described passes muster?

 

[Chris-WA]

One of the posters here made reference to Cardinal Ratzinger’s 2000 book, The Spirit of the Liturgy. In the chapter entitled Music and Liturgy, here is what Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) has to say about rock music:The music of the masses has broken loose from this and treads a very different path. On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be decribed as a cult of the banal. “Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals is assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. ***The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance ***when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. (emphasis added)Pretty strong words from our Pope regarding the appropriateness of rock music for the liturgy. In his view, this music has the effect of reducing us to our elemental passions and leaves little chance for the “music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation.” There doesn’t seem to be much gray area here.

Pope Benedict goes on to say that there are basically two kinds of music. First there is the kind that “draws the senses into spirit and so brings man to wholeness.” The other kind is the music that “drags man into the intoxication of the senses, crushes rationality, and subjects the spirit to the senses.” Clearly Pope Benedict places rock music in the latter category. He finally says: Not every kind of music can have a place in Christian worship. It has its standards, and that standard is the Logos…The Holy Spirit leads us to the Logos, and he leads us to a music that serves…the lifting up of the human heart. Does it integrate man by drawing him to what is above, or does it cause his disintegration into formless intoxication or mere sensuality?

It seems our Pope well understands the idea of keeping sacred music sacred!

 

[benedictgal]

One of the posters here made reference to Cardinal Ratzinger’s 2000 book, The Spirit of the Liturgy. In the chapter entitled Music and Liturgy, here is what Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict) has to say about rock music:The music of the masses has broken loose from this and treads a very different path. On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be decribed as a cult of the banal. “Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals is assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. ***The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance ***when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. (emphasis added)Pretty strong words from our Pope regarding the appropriateness of rock music for the liturgy. In his view, this music has the effect of reducing us to our elemental passions and leaves little chance for the “music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation.” There doesn’t seem to be much gray area here.

Pope Benedict goes on to say that there are basically two kinds of music. First there is the kind that “draws the senses into spirit and so brings man to wholeness.” The other kind is the music that “drags man into the intoxication of the senses, crushes rationality, and subjects the spirit to the senses.” Clearly Pope Benedict places rock music in the latter category. He finally says: Not every kind of music can have a place in Christian worship. It has its standards, and that standard is the Logos…The Holy Spirit leads us to the Logos, and he leads us to a music that serves…the lifting up of the human heart. Does it integrate man by drawing him to what is above, or does it cause his disintegration into formless intoxication or mere sensuality?

It seems our Pope well understands the idea of keeping sacred music sacred!

A big AMEN to that. I went to a benefit rock concert for our local animal shelter (I’m on their board). Hey, it’s okay to have this kind of music in a club, arena, etc. But, when it comes to the Mass, I don’t want something that is going to whip me in a frenzy, like the music of the cult of the Greek god Dionysis (or, Bacchus, in Roman mythology). That was the kind of music that women who performed the Bacchaen rituals danced to and it certainly whipped them into a frenzy. Of course, that kind of music was also associated with debauchery (something caused by an excessive consumption of wine-also part of the Bacchus cult rituals). Apollan music (forgive spelling) is more about reason and sobriety. It is much more calm and reflective.

Incidentally, I would have put the quotes from Benedict’s book myself, but the last time I tried it, I received an error message on my post.