We're heading towards divorce. Is annulment an option?

[Catholiclife200]

Ok, so I don’t want to get divorced. I love my wife very much. We have 4 kids together 10 and under.

She has been verbally abused all her life from her mom. They basically don’t get along at all. About 2 months ago she sort of snapped. She became very distant and starting to totally change. She says there is love, but she is not in love with me anymore. She thought she may be depressed so she went to see a counselor. The counselor basically confirmed it and they are going to meet a few times a month.

I told my wife to be open to me, just tell me the truth. Let’s talk about how you feel. I don’t want to be in the dark. So she did. She said she is forcing herself to be loving to our kids. She thinks that she forced herself to be the person she has been the whole time I met her because she wanted to create a family that she never had. Obviously this has all blown me away. We have had our issues over the years (11 years together) but you can’t say we were not in love.

Anyhow, basically she wants time to just think things through, see how she feels, see if the depression is causing her to be distant from me and the kids, see if she still loves me. Or to see if the reason she married me was because of some type of childhood drama or depression having an effect on her.

I don’t want to leave her. I want to work things out, but I realize the ball is 100% in her court. I try to be loving and not pressure her. I know this will take a long time for her to work out. But basically, in the end, she may leave me. If that happens, is all of this grounds for annulment? I have always tried to live by church teaching. I told her that if she leaves me that I would not remarry as I made a vow to her before God on our wedding day. Still, I know that my feelings may change as the years go by. Where does the church stand on this type of issue? Everyone who knows us would think I was crazy for asking for an annulment as we have always seemed like such a great couple and have wonderful kids.

 

[pianistclare]

Sorry this is happening. I’ll keep you in my prayers. But wok n the NOW.
The relationship. Too early to be thinking what if…

Work on the NOW.
See your priest for advice, even if you have to go alone.

 

[Lou2U]

Sorry this is happening. I’ll keep you in my prayers. But wok n the NOW.
The relationship. Too early to be thinking what if…

Work on the NOW.
See your priest for advice, even if you have to go alone.

This, a thousand times. Keep on doing what you’re doing, make sure your wife knows you are there for her, you love her and you want to make things work. Make sure you keep talking about how you feel to each other. I hope things work out for you in the way you want them to.

Lou

 

[PaulfromIowa]

What happened 2 months ago to trigger this? It sounds as though she has a mental health issue. You should strongly encourage her to seek psychiatric advice as well as counseling. This must be impacting your children so you should be observant.

Could you obtain a decree of nullity? Perhaps, if she had premarital psychiatric issues. However, the best outcome, by far, for the two of you and for your children would be saving your marriage.

 

[Catholiclife200]

What happened 2 months ago to trigger this? It sounds as though she has a mental health issue. You should strongly encourage her to seek psychiatric advice as well as counseling. This must be impacting your children so you should be observant.

Could you obtain a decree of nullity? Perhaps, if she had premarital psychiatric issues. However, the best outcome, by far, for the two of you and for your children would be saving your marriage.

I will recommend it to her. As for the outcome, by far our best outcome is to save our marriage. She is not unreasonable at all, in fact she is very level headed. She says that she doesn’t want to mess up the kids with divorce, but I think in the end, that is what she would choose if things head that direction.

 

[Catholiclife200]

What happened 2 months ago to trigger this? It sounds as though she has a mental health issue. You should strongly encourage her to seek psychiatric advice as well as counseling. This must be impacting your children so you should be observant.

Could you obtain a decree of nullity? Perhaps, if she had premarital psychiatric issues. However, the best outcome, by far, for the two of you and for your children would be saving your marriage.

Two months ago her mother went out of town and is now back. We also had a small fight about something totally unrelated. I think this triggered it.

She had mentioned to me a few random times over the course of our marriage that she thought she was depressed, but then she’d cheer up a day or so later and that would be the end of that type of talk. So I’m sure she has had it in the back of her mind. She wanted to counseling to sort of confirm this.

 

[CatholicRaven]

Annulment may or may not be possible, and no one here is likely going to be able to determine that for you.

I agree with PianistClare. Focus on helping and loving your wife now.

Keep in mind that depression can make a person feel (strongly) as though it’s always been this way, and it’s always going to be. So her statements that she has basically been “faking it” for 11+ years are probably not accurate. However, she may truly believe those things right now, and that’s going to make it difficult for her to see hope for a better future with you (at least for a while). Her counselor should help her see the past (and the future) more clearly as treatment continues, so there’s a decent chance that she will stay if she can work through the depression.

That doesn’t mean you should sit back and do nothing in the meantime. Lean on God and pray for your wife. Work on yourself, as well, especially in regards to your marriage. Her emotional struggles may be entirely due to her depression, but still, we all have room for improvement in our relationships, and it will help you to know you’re doing what you can to support and love her through her struggles.

For instance, I would suggest that you learn to speak your wife’s “love language,” if you haven’t already, and use it daily.

I will pray for you.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I will pray for you and yours.

On a more practical level, this may be a medical issue and not something for a CAF forum. Recommend you pursue other venues more relevant to the issue.

I strongly recommend you and your wife read “Depression Fallout: The Impact of Depression on Couples and What You Can Do to Preserve the Bond” by Anne Sheffield (herself a depressive who had a depressed mother).

I wouldn’t worry about annulments if you want to stay together. I’d focus on the marriage and your wife’s health. Been down this road, if it is going to lead to divorce then is the time I’d start pondering whether to seek a declaration of nullity.

BTW- what grade is your 10 year old in?

 

[zea_maize]

Ok, so I don’t want to get divorced. I love my wife very much. We have 4 kids together 10 and under.

She has been verbally abused all her life from her mom. They basically don’t get along at all. About 2 months ago she sort of snapped. She became very distant and starting to totally change. She says there is love, but she is not in love with me anymore. She thought she may be depressed so she went to see a counselor. The counselor basically confirmed it and they are going to meet a few times a month.

I told my wife to be open to me, just tell me the truth. Let’s talk about how you feel. I don’t want to be in the dark. So she did. She said she is forcing herself to be loving to our kids. She thinks that she forced herself to be the person she has been the whole time I met her because she wanted to create a family that she never had. Obviously this has all blown me away. We have had our issues over the years (11 years together) but you can’t say we were not in love.

Anyhow, basically she wants time to just think things through, see how she feels, see if the depression is causing her to be distant from me and the kids, see if she still loves me. Or to see if the reason she married me was because of some type of childhood drama or depression having an effect on her.

I don’t want to leave her. I want to work things out, but I realize the ball is 100% in her court. I try to be loving and not pressure her. I know this will take a long time for her to work out. But basically, in the end, she may leave me. If that happens, is all of this grounds for annulment? I have always tried to live by church teaching. I told her that if she leaves me that I would not remarry as I made a vow to her before God on our wedding day. Still, I know that my feelings may change as the years go by. Where does the church stand on this type of issue? Everyone who knows us would think I was crazy for asking for an annulment as we have always seemed like such a great couple and have wonderful kids.

The depression is likely the culprit of those changed feeling. Depression tells outright lies to the depressed. Depressed people believe the lies the depression tells them fully. It’s a very difficult situation for a marriage. This is a pretty good intro article about how depression changes thinking.

The ball about leaving/staying is 100% in her court. Try not to feel bitterness for her struggles right not. She truly believes these things even if they are not reality. I will pray that her counselor is the right person for her and that the counselor will help her begin to see the truth from the lies. I will pray for your patience and for the maintenance of a loving heart. You should see a counselor of your own to help you process your emotions about this.

You and your wife are in my prayers.

 

[styrgwillidar]

The depression is likely the culprit of those changed feeling. Depression tells outright lies to the depressed. Depressed people believe the lies the depression tells them fully. It’s a very difficult situation for a marriage. This is a pretty good intro article about how depression changes thinking.

The ball about leaving/staying is 100% in her court. Try not to feel bitterness for her struggles right not. She truly believes these things even if they are not reality. I will pray that her counselor is the right person for her and that the counselor will help her begin to see the truth from the lies.

It is a medical issue and she may need more than just counseling, she may require meds either temporarily or long term. If it is clinical depression it involves changes to brain chemistry including a decline in neurogenesis and shrinkage in some parts of the brain. It’s why this is an issue the OP needs to explore in venues like you’ve listed with information on the condition and treatment options vice CAF, where we can offer our prayers and support. And eventually advice an seeking a declaration of nullity should it lead to divorce.

I will pray for your patience and for the maintenance of a loving heart. You should see a counselor of your own to help you process your emotions about this.

If not a counselor, at a minimum take care of yourself, exercise, eat right, pursue enjoyable activities. It’s easy to get sucked into the vortex of despair, which will impede your ability to help your wife.

You and your wife are in my prayers.

 

[zea_maize]

styrgwillidar:
You make valid points. In my experience, an effective counselor will be much better at introducing the idea of medication to a depressed individual than a spouse or family member. Often, that suggestion leads to anger and a perception of the spouse/family member “just wanting to fix things/oh so you think i can just take a pill and change/you don’t love me the way I am and think I’m crazy/& on & on”.

 

[styrgwillidar]

You make valid points. In my experience, an effective counselor will be much better at introducing the idea of medication to a depressed individual than a spouse or family member. Often, that suggestion leads to anger and a perception of the spouse/family member “just wanting to fix things/oh so you think i can just take a pill and change/you don’t love me the way I am and think I’m crazy/& on & on”.

Understood. I don’t think we’re supposed to provide medical advice on CAF. So, I think all we can do is direct him to resources on the depression issue which can outline different treatment options, success rates, what the standards for treatment are.

 

[styrgwillidar]

You make valid points. In my experience, an effective counselor will be much better at introducing the idea of medication to a depressed individual than a spouse or family member. Often, that suggestion leads to anger and a perception of the spouse/family member “just wanting to fix things/oh so you think i can just take a pill and change/you don’t love me the way I am and think I’m crazy/& on & on”.

One of the things that was helpful about Sheffield’s book was the depressive reading it and recognizing themselves in it, many of the descriptions matched exactly what they were feeling, how they were acting. It led them to seeking treatment vice being pushed into it. Just one person’s experience, but why I recommend it.

 

[Catholiclife200]

Thank you for sharing please be assured of my prayers.

CatholicRaven shared a great link with the love languages. I would encourage you to check it out, it is not a fad but actually written with great respect for the way God created each of us.

Please do not sit back and wait to let your wife figure things out. I think this is a mistake, you are a huge part of this marriage and if the marriage is not working there are things you can do to help repair it. Clearly if things are not going well there were things on your end that didn’t go well, wouldn’t you agree? You can try and repair those in the meantime. She may not show instant romantic interest, (in fact she probably won’t) but the fact that you are working on them and are keeping at it over months and months is a good thing!

I would encourage you to check into Retrouvaille. With young children it may be a challenge to find child care but please, before you get a divorce this would be the way to go. Child care for a weekend is easier than child care for years and years so it’s worth it. God bless.

retrouvaille.org/

Great idea. Thank you. I know that right now she won’t go for it. She wants to do personal counseling before doing anything about marriage counseling. I will definitely keep this one in my back pocket though for whenever she may be ready.

 

[Catholiclife200]

You make valid points. In my experience, an effective counselor will be much better at introducing the idea of medication to a depressed individual than a spouse or family member. Often, that suggestion leads to anger and a perception of the spouse/family member “just wanting to fix things/oh so you think i can just take a pill and change/you don’t love me the way I am and think I’m crazy/& on & on”.

So her counselor told her she does not need any medication as she is highly functional. Anyhow, we’ll see what happens with subsequent visits as that may change. Since my wife is the one who recognized the depression on her own, I luckily am not in a position where I need to push anything medical on her.

 

[housedude]

What happened 2 months ago to trigger this? It sounds as though she has a mental health issue. You should strongly encourage her to seek psychiatric advice as well as counseling. This must be impacting your children so you should be observant.

Could you obtain a decree of nullity? Perhaps, if she had premarital psychiatric issues. However, the best outcome, by far, for the two of you and for your children would be saving your marriage.

what ever you do, do not encourage her to seek psychiatric advice. that will be a slap in her face. Love her and pray silently for her and get help. Ask her if she would attend “Retrouvaille” with you.

 

[Catholiclife200]

what ever you do, do not encourage her to seek psychiatric advice. that will be a slap in her face. Love her and pray silently for her and get help. Ask her if she would attend “Retrouvaille” with you.

I fully agree. I can’t suggest that. She’d avoid it simply because I had suggested it in the first place.

 

[Catholiclife200]

God bless you.

You know, I re-read your first post over again very carefully. I don’t know you or your wife, however I do know a great deal about human beings and marriage in general. To say that the ball is 100% in her court may be a mistake just my take on things. Here in this post you mentioned keeping things in “your back pocket” and I wonder again if that is another mistake, why would you wait?

I could be reading your post wrong, but it almost seems as if you are sitting back, waiting for your wife to make a final decision here and I think that is a mistake. Sit her down gently and tell her you plan on fighting for your marriage. You don’t have to be rude, no need to cram anything down her throat, just that you are a man keeping your vows and you are going to fight for her and your marriage and family and are going to do whatever it takes! Most women would love to hear those words actually. Then set about working on your bad habits, helping out more, whatever you believe God is calling you to do. You won’t see changes in her right away of course but stay the course, be the hero!

Maybe you don’t want to get your feelings hurt, that would be understandable. I just believe that your wife may need to believe you are in this for the duration. As far as your marriage not being where it should be, that is not all her fault either, much of it may be if she was hiding her emotions, but no difficult marriage is ever 100% the fault of one spouse. Therefore there are things that you will need to work on in the meantime to help fix what problems existed.

Please be assured of my prayers, this much be such a hard time.

Ok, so let me clear this up. I actually did not suggest that she go to a counselor. That was her idea. I have always felt that I can’t suggest stuff to her. She is her own woman and will avoid things that family suggests to her. Different with her friends though. Anyhow, when this all started, and even before the whole idea of depression came up, we were talking and I told her that I am a fighter and I will fight to do whatever I can to improve our marriage, be it giving her space, going on a retreat (religious or secular), or doing marriage counseling. Anything. I told her that we need to keep some fire on the flame and reignite our marriage. We should go out on more dates and have more alone and together time. She liked the idea, but I could tell that her heart is out of it.

She started to think over the next week or so and thought she may have personal issues that are causing her to feel this way towards me (she had not told me how she felt about the kids at that point). So she thought that before we do marriage counseling or those types of things that she should go and do some personal counseling. I was all for it. So that’s when they told her they think she has a very low level depression.

As for the ball being in her court, I sort of meant as to whether we get divorced or stay together. I will stay with her in good and bad…forever. I love her and I will honor my vows. As for things I can do, I am trying. I’ve been cooking and doing laundry, taking the kids on my own so she can have more personal time. Encouraging her to go out more with her friends…though they are mostly single or divorces, so I am not exactly thrilled about that idea. She says she has not mentioned any of this to anyone other than the counselor and I believe her. I’ve been helping the kids with homework and I get them ready for school every day and church on sunday. She takes a long time to get ready, so that has been our normal operation for years (something I never liked but just deal with). Anyhow, I know there are things I can do and am definitely trying. I want us to stay together for the good of the whole family at the very least and primarily because I love her so much. However, I think that if divorce comes to us, I need to be able to tell myself that I have done every possible thing for our marriage. Everything to improve as a man, a father, and a husband. I am very loving towards her. Anyhow, this was a long post. Thanks for reading. Thanks for all advice that has been posted and please post some more for me.

 

[styrgwillidar]

So her counselor told her she does not need any medication as she is highly functional. Anyhow, we’ll see what happens with subsequent visits as that may change. Since my wife is the one who recognized the depression on her own, I luckily am not in a position where I need to push anything medical on her.

Having experience with two highly functional depressives, I can not urge you strongly enough to research the disease, treatments, and success rates. Starting with the book I recommended.

 

[Anne1964]

It sounds like your wife is finally beginning to address the issues from her childhood with a verbally abusive mother with her counselor. This may take quite awhile for her to work out and she is likely to cycle through many emotions as she discusses her childhood with her counselor.

As she works through her issues with her mother she may naturally begin to examine her relationship with you as well. This is a process that may also take some time.

Depression often causes a person to feel overwhelmed and exhausted. Simple daily tasks can sometimes feel insurmountable.

It sounds like she is lucky to have such a considerate husband and I encourage you to continue supporting her.