Were the Original 4th and 5th Glorious Mysteries Changed in the 20th Century?

[Mintaka]

The Circumcision would have been done 8 days after Jesus’ birth, in accordance with the Law, and it would have been done by some mohel guy in Bethlehem. There is blood involved, and the Covenant, and a relationship to the story of Zipporah – “You are a bridegroom of blood to me.”

The Presentation in the Temple was 40 days after Jesus’ birth, also in accordance with the Law.

Feast of the Circumcision, Jan. 1.

Presentation/Candlemas, Feb. 2.

 

[rangerdillon]

I was not asking if you had to do your penance. Just saying that a rosary could be required.

 

[twf]

I’ve had the entire Rosary assigned as a penance once or twice. And a decade other times. Not sure how often. I must just be a much greater sinner than you .

 

[Minks]

Thanks, Bearself. I have learned my one new thing for the day, and I can now go back to bed

D

Isn’t that the truth?! At least one new thing, and usually more than one, comes my way each day! My first today was finding “acceptation,” used by @OddBird, perhaps in an older thread.

 

[twf]

There are icons of the coronation of Our Lady. Google one to help you visualize it?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The Circumcision would have been done 8 days after Jesus’ birth, in accordance with the Law, and it would have been done by some mohel guy in Bethlehem. There is blood involved, and the Covenant, and a relationship to the story of Zipporah – “You are a bridegroom of blood to me.”

The Presentation in the Temple was 40 days after Jesus’ birth, also in accordance with the Law.

Feast of the Circumcision, Jan. 1.

Presentation/Candlemas, Feb. 2.

Just goes to show you learn something new every day. I have thought they both took place on the same day (8th day after birth) for 45 years now. I totally failed to “connect the dots” and realize that they were two separate observances, on two different days, with two feast days.

Don’t know how I slipped up that way. Nobody ever told me, and I never asked anyone. Thanks so much.

“We are all ignorant, just of different things.”

 

[Minks]

Yes, I’ve read that there were various variations on the mysteries before Pope Pius V’s standardization.

Additionally, as we’ve discussed before on the forum, in the Joyful Mysteries it was traditional in some areas to have the Circumcision rather than the Presentation as the Fourth Joyful Mystery until fairly recently. I had an old book as a child that probably dated from the 1940s and it had the Circumcision as the Fourth Joyful Mystery.

Lol! Yes, The Circumcision was included when I learned the rosary in the ‘40s. When I asked Sister Mary Cleophas, a Benedictine at Christ the King, what it meant, her answer included a “My Dear Child.” Lol! We fifty-two First Graders had learned that a sentence starting with “My Dear Child,” should never be asked again. I don’t recall her specific answer, but a “My Dear Child” always prefaced the idea that we had a zillion things to learn about Our Lord and the Church, and that was waaaay down the list, so we needn’t worry about it for a few years. I don’t remember seeing it in print when I was in high school, nor hearing it discussed during the ‘50s, though.

 

[Minks]

rangerdillon:

As far as never being required to say a Rosary, what if your confessor assigns it as a penance?

Do confessors do that? I’ve never had one give the Rosary (or any decade thereof) as penance.

Lol! You’ve been with some easy priests on the other side of the screen! Maybe you’re simply less inclined toward sin than those of us who’ve been given a decade or an entire rosary.

 

[Catholic361]

Yeah really lucky lol I’ve been told to say Hail Mary’s since I was baptized in the Faith in '2018. Which reminds me that I need to get to confession soon haven’t been in a while.

 

[po18guy]

The answer is yes.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I spent many years thinking the Circumcision and the Presentation were the same thing and happened on the same day, because of that book. Only within the last few years did I become aware that the Circumcision would have happened many days earlier under Jewish law.

LOL I can understand the sister wanting to punt that question though

 

[OddBird]

I don’t want to derail the thread, but take my “acceptation” with a pinch of salt, as English isn’t my first language and I have a strong tendency to use “Frenchisms”

 

[Minks]

Lol! I looked it up. (Love that feature on my phone!) You were 100% correct in your usage. It was simply new to both, my eyes and my ears.

 

[Nikolaite]

This would be helpful for me, as I have a very hard time visualizing the Coronation — not saying it didn’t happen, just that I have to try and create a scene in my mind of Our Lady being crowned queen of heaven.

Pope Pius XII referred to the fifth Glorious mystery as the “mystical crown of the heavenly Queen” (and not coronation) in his 1954 work called Ad Caeli Reginam. It’s a good read.