Were there others present at the time of Adam?

[shocktrooper]

It seems the ‘‘soul’’ is the real issue fro the church, not whether Adam and Eve were a literal couple. And in a way that’s a good position to hold, because the current state of our knowledge is that mtConEve evolved tens of thousands of years before yChromAdam.

Sarah x

Again, how does above square with this…

from Humani Generis…
37. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]

I would like to know how someone can be an individual (physically human being) but not be taken to be a real (literal) human being. Can you please explain that to me?

and again, this, since you seem to be ignoring what the Church teaches but I guess that should be expected since you are an atheist…

1- The first man was created by God. (De fide.)
2- The whole human race stems from one single human pair. (Sent. certa.)
10- Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De fide.)
15- Adam received sanctifying grace not merely for himself, but for all his posterity. (Sent. certa.)
16- Our** first parents** in paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment. (De fide.)
17- Through the sin our** first parents** lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God. (De fide.)
18- Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the Devil. (De fide.) D788.
19- Adam’s sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent. (De fide.)
20- Original Sin consists in the deprivation of grace caused by the free act of sin committed by the head of the race. (Sent. communis.)

I enjoy seeing you search for the God you claim doesn’t exist. You seem to be intuitively searching for God without even knowing it. You will surely find Him standing right behind you once you decide to turn around after having your back to Him.

May God continue to bless you as you stumble home.

Pax Christi.

 

[atheistgirl]

May God continue to bless you as you stumble home.

Are all of the above statements articles of faith, infallible, that must be believed?

I don’t see how they could be when the churches official stance seems to be one is free to either believe in a literal Adam and Eve, or to believe in evolution.

You position, as I understand it, is clear, you believe in a litteral Adam and Eve, created specifically by God and who did not evolve.

Many catholics believe in evolution, including the fact we evolved from a common ancestor, apes and monkies share this same common ancestor, and God directed the evolutionary process, including, at some point in time, taking the raw homo sapiens and infusing him with a soul, lifting him above all other animals.

It seems from what Ive read the magisterium of the church has no problem with catholics believing in either proposition.

Sarah x

 

[shocktrooper]

Are all of the above statements articles of faith, infallible, that must be believed?

I don’t see how they could be when the churches official stance seems to be one is free to either believe in a literal Adam and Eve, or to believe in evolution.

You position, as I understand it, is clear, you believe in a litteral Adam and Eve, created specifically by God and who did not evolve.

Many catholics believe in evolution, including the fact we evolved from a common ancestor, apes and monkies share this same common ancestor, and God directed the evolutionary process, including, at some point in time, taking the raw homo sapiens and infusing him with a soul, lifting him above all other animals.

It seems from what Ive read the magisterium of the church has no problem with catholics believing in either proposition.

Sarah x

There is not much that has been declared by the Church to be infallible. Nevertheless, the faithful must hold the teachings listed.

Many catholics believe in evolution, including the fact we evolved from a common ancestor, apes and monkies share this same common ancestor, and God directed the evolutionary process, including, at some point in time, taking the raw homo sapiens and infusing him with a soul, lifting him above all other animals.

I have never said this was NOT a possible position for Catholics to hold. You are not reading the postings correctly that I have made. Everything I have said has to deal with the implantation of the “rational soul” into whatever you want to call the pre-existing material. I don’t believe in evolution (as stated above) but I have not been arguing that one could not hold that belief. The Church does allow for this. I stated reasons why I don’t hold to an evolutionary belief but never condemned anyone for it.

This is my position which is what the Church teaches…once the soul was breathed into the first human by God, then every other man (rational soul/being) descended from that one individual and the woman that was created by God. Everything that lead up to the part of God breathing a soul into the “beast” or “whatever” is up for grabs as far as the Church is concerned, at this point. Again, the Church teaches that God created humankind by breathing a rational soul into “him” and then all other human beings descended from Adam and Eve who are our first parents. They are real (literal) people that really did exist at the threshold of human history. They are not just symbols, myths, allegories, or figments of someone’s imagination. They are real people, our first parents, and we all descended from them.

I hope this clears some things up for you.

Pax Christi.

 

[donsnow]

Good evening, all,

Considering the OP questioning if other [humans] were present when God created Adam and Eve, that’s not really relevant to God having created Adam and Eve. In two different Creation accounts, God is shown as creating man and woman, who are named Adam and Eve in each story.

I would like to point out, even an allegorical account has the purpose of carrying a truth. So, it doesn’t change the truth of Adam and Eve, whether the story is allegorical or literal.

My personal opinion has it that God could have created Adam and Eve as Homo sapiens sapiens in the midst of the other homonids thousands, not millions, of years ago. And, he used existing materials, not beings, to do so.

God loves all of you, lurkers, too,
Don

 

[Marocchino]

For those who advise others not to read Genesis as literal history, you incur the condemnation of Pope St. Pius X in his 1906 document on Genesis.

Adam and Eve had many more sons and daughters in addition to Cain and Abel. It explicitly says so in Genesis.

Brothers and sisters had to marry each other in those early generations of man.

 

[donsnow]

For those who advise others not to read Genesis as literal history, you incur the condemnation of Pope St. Pius X in his 1906 document on Genesis.

Adam and Eve had many more sons and daughters in addition to Cain and Abel. It explicitly says so in Genesis.

Brothers and sisters had to marry each other in those early generations of man.

Good afternoon, Marocchino,

I agree wholeheartedly. Your post sums up my position in a nutshell.

God loves you,
Don

 

[chris62]

For those who advise others not to read Genesis as literal history, you incur the condemnation of Pope St. Pius X in his 1906 document on Genesis.

Adam and Eve had many more sons and daughters in addition to Cain and Abel. It explicitly says so in Genesis.

Brothers and sisters had to marry each other in those early generations of man.

Got it.

 

[BibleFriend]

You could keep discussing it and you will continue to get different point of views. The main point to be derived from the book of Genesis is God created man period. God created the heavens and the earth, Whether it was the big bang or any other theory out there it all started with God… God’s love for man is great and at one point or another man fell from God’s grace…

 

[Gethsemane]

I’d like to point out that the theory of evolution as put forward by Darwin does not take into account whether or not God exist. Science can’t tell us for certain that God exists, for the existence of God is philosophical question and not a scientific one. Those who are spirtually minded though see that the creation clearly testifies of God.

When I read the first account of Genesis I find it interesting that the order of creation is similar to the order in which evolution and abiogenesis work. The second account states man came from dust which is interesting because supposedly all of the universe was essentially created from star dust.

I see evolution and abiogenesis to be theories of how makind came about. They are unproven, but the most likely as far as science is concerned. I see no reason why God could not use these things, as he uses physics or chemistry to bring about man.

I see no issue with man evolving from apes since this would have occured before the Fall and thus creation was still “good.” I believe we literally had Adam and Eve and that these were the very first of Homo Erectus.

I think creation intimately knew God and there very well could have been an actual tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. He’s God, He could easily simply create the Tree bypassing evolution - who am I to say it is or isn’t so.

I may not fully understand how God brought all these things into being but I know he did because His Word says so. I know also he did so because Love is ment to be shared.

 

[edwest2]

Good evening, everyone.

This type of question is brought up frequently here. It involves a simple question: Is there scientific evidence that there were other human beings when Genesis speaks of Adam and Eve or not? For Catholics, the answer is we cannot verify this. In the encyclical by Pope Pius XII, Humani Generis (1950), he made it clear that there were no other human beings present at the same time. He did not discourage responsible research into the question but added that evidence for and against the theory needed to be examined.

The other issue for Catholics is that we are taught two individuals, Adam and Eve, freely committed the Original Sin. This is why Jesus Christ was born, lived, died and rose again. And that this Original Sin was transmitted to all of us. This information is essential to our understanding of the reality of the parents of all and the need for a Redeemer.

And Genesis is not the only source in the Bible that mentions Original Sin.

bible.cc/romans/5-12.htm

Sometimes, people point out that Adam means man in Hebrew. But as we see in the book of Romans, we are made to understand that Adam was a particular individual.

Peace,
Ed

 

[RobbyS]

Adam was a singular human being, man as he ought to be, and therefore, until he fell, different from us. His relationship with God was as ours ought to be. It is the nature of man, however, to be tested. He failed that test. Jesus did not, and he showed us that we are not doomed to fail. Just become his follower and go where he leads us.

 

[edwest2]

The Adam and Eve stories are the first primordial stories that were passed down through Jewish generations. The creation accounts of Genesis are not history books; but rather literary forms employed to describe primordial creation, and to present universal religious themes: that of the fatherhood of God, the free will of man, the disobedience of man, and the chance for salvation. The reader is not supposed to ask questions like, “who were Cain and Abel’s wives?” None of the biblical writers in fact know precisely how many people there were, or how things started out. Again, the earliest stories known concerned Adam and Eve and their family. No stories invovled other people, although of course a reasonable person reading seeking out historical facts would have to assume there were other people around at the time.

None of the Vatican statements on Adam and Eve are conclusive, but are somewhat vaguely worded, so as to verify the Adam and Eve story–that real primordial events are described–but without accounting for all associated historical details. We have to use our brains a little when reading this stuff, or we can begin to sink into the type of so-called thinking that avers there were no dinosaurs because they are not mentioned in the bible, there was no rain before the flood, etc.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Peace,
Ed