Were you screened out by your diocese or parish?

[Clevus]

Not much is said of the effects of the new policy of criminal record checks for job screening by the diocese or parish. There surely must be a significant number of Catholic lay community that had their life changed by it.

   Just wondering what your thoughts and experiences are on this. Some topics for discussion are: 1/Were you treated with discretion and dignity through it all?. 2/Were attempts made for alternative placement in the diocese/church?(managearial to worker,etc) 3/How much of it 'got out' after a while.?  4/Were your family or loved ones affected by it?   

    If you are not a subject in this, that's OK, opinions are welcome.
  
   Thanks.

 

[Horton]

Not much is said of the effects of the new policy of criminal record checks for job screening by the diocese or parish. There surely must be a significant number of Catholic lay community that had their life changed by it.

   Just wondering what your thoughts and experiences are on this. Some topics for discussion are: 1/Were you treated with discretion and dignity through it all?. 2/Were attempts made for alternative placement in the diocese/church?(managearial to worker,etc) 3/How much of it 'got out' after a while.?  4/Were your family or loved ones affected by it?   

    If you are not a subject in this, that's OK, opinions are welcome.
  
   Thanks.

I actually just went through this process. I was offered a position working with youth contingent on passing the background check. I’m not exactly sure what can be on a background check, except the obvious, and still be allowed to work for a parish or diocese. I know I was not allowed to work until mine came back. I have a clean history, having never been arrested for anything at all.

It was done with the utmost respect & dignity. Of course knowing there was nothing there and I’ve been passing background checks since the 90s, I had nothing to worry about. I also needed to renew my safe environment training.

I believe to be a great rule. Even volunteers that work with minors have to pass a background check. Those with certain offenses should not be working for any church, school, or diocese ever.

As to information getting “out”, I’m not sure that can happen. The parish doesn’t necessarily see the results of a background check, just that is either ok or not. There is some legal protection for the individual being checked.

 

[Clevus]

Your diocese seems to be blessed with competent individuals who are assigned to this unpleasant task. It makes for a reassuring work environment for everyone.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I actually just went through this process. I was offered a position working with youth contingent on passing the background check. I’m not exactly sure what can be on a background check, except the obvious, and still be allowed to work for a parish or diocese. I know I was not allowed to work until mine came back. I have a clean history, having never been arrested for anything at all.

It was done with the utmost respect & dignity. Of course knowing there was nothing there and I’ve been passing background checks since the 90s, I had nothing to worry about. I also needed to renew my safe environment training.

I believe to be a great rule. Even volunteers that work with minors have to pass a background check. Those with certain offenses should not be working for any church, school, or diocese ever.

As to information getting “out”, I’m not sure that can happen. The parish doesn’t necessarily see the results of a background check, just that is either ok or not. There is some legal protection for the individual being checked.

I agree with the above. The process is the norm when working or volunteering with minors at church, school or diocese and has been around here for some years, I’d say maybe even ten by now. Additionally, I’m fairly sure most–and perhaps even all–employers run background checks on any prospective employees these days.

 

[pianistclare]

What exactly are you alleging? That background checks are done at the parish level and then everyone talks about the results? That simply does not happen.

The Chancery handles this through independent companies that screen for many industries. The checks are typical, and thorough. Parishes don’t even collect the data, such as DL# or SS#. All of that is done through secure means online. What we receive back is clear to be in active ministry or not clear. No one at the parish level ever knows why.
I’ve only known one guy at one parish that didn’t come back clean. He didn’t have to leave the parish, but he could not sing in the choir because there were teens there. No problem. He sat in the pew with his family. The only reason I knew is because I was, and now am again, the Choir Director.

 

[SwizzleStick]

I do not think it is a “one and done” type of thing, either. That would be too much liability, I suppose. I think it is ongoing or perhaps renewable as long as employment or volunteering lasts. I know that I have gotten letters over the years, perhaps every 3-5 or so, indicating the results of the check. I think it is just what has to be done routinely.

 

[Phemie]

In my area we first go to the court house for a court check and once that result is available we take it to the RCMP station and they do a criminal check. Add a vulnerable sector check if we’re going to be doing home visits to the shut-ins or working with minors or vulnerable adults.

We have the option of doing it ourselves with a letter from the diocese so that it’s free or just giving our application to the parish which then takes them to the court house and the RCMP and picks up the results. I’ve never heard anyone discuss this with anyone and I was the parish secretary when we started doing this.

I’ve had it done. No problem. Husband has had it done, several times, since he’s a Scout leader. Last time his name triggered something and he had to be fingerprinted to show that he wasn’t the person in question.

 

[pensmama87]

I do not think it is a “one and done” type of thing, either. That would be too much liability, I suppose. I think it is ongoing or perhaps renewable as long as employment or volunteering lasts. I know that I have gotten letters over the years, perhaps every 3-5 or so, indicating the results of the check. I think it is just what has to be done routinely.

Yes, and the knowledge that it is being done routinely is what discourages offenders from applying. In our diocese we offer information that allows to check references that aren’t necessarily criminal (after all, offenders are rarely caught on a first offense), but would alert to suspicious behavior or a refusal to comply with socially appropriate norms (grooming behaviors.)

Is it annoying and potentially invasive? Sure. But knowing that you will be checked on deters those who depend on secrecy. Unfortunately, predators seek out situations that give them easy access to prey.

 

[robertmidwest]

Not much is said of the effects of the new policy of criminal record checks for job screening by the diocese or parish. There surely must be a significant number of Catholic lay community that had their life changed by it.

   Just wondering what your thoughts and experiences are on this. Some topics for discussion are: 1/Were you treated with discretion and dignity through it all?. 2/Were attempts made for alternative placement in the diocese/church?(managearial to worker,etc) 3/How much of it 'got out' after a while.?  4/Were your family or loved ones affected by it?   

    If you are not a subject in this, that's OK, opinions are welcome.
  
   Thanks.

Are you asking people who have lost or been denied employment due to a background check to share their experiences? Is this appropriate for CAF?

 

[tawny]

Everyone who works for my Archdiocese in any capacity goes through this background check. It’s part of the “Safe Environment” process. I’ve been through it. If there’s nothing to hide; there’s nothing to worry about.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes, and the knowledge that it is being done routinely is what discourages offenders from applying. In our diocese we offer information that allows to check references that aren’t necessarily criminal (after all, offenders are rarely caught on a first offense), but would alert to suspicious behavior or a refusal to comply with socially appropriate norms (grooming behaviors.)

Is it annoying and potentially invasive? Sure. But knowing that you will be checked on deters those who depend on secrecy. Unfortunately, predators seek out situations that give them easy access to prey.

Excellent point. This is precisely why it is necessary.

 

[Clevus]

*What exactly are you alleging? That background checks are done at the parish level and then everyone talks about the results? That simply does not happen.
*

I know of one case where the administrator who is sworn to confidentiality, had the task to process the applications in trust, and relay the result to designated parish staff. She divulged a negative return to a friend in her rural community. The subjects case involved a misdemeanor dating 30 years.

The story goes that the subject had recently registered in the parish. If he was set back by scandal and ostracized at this stage, then he was trapped from moving on because his home was newly mortgaged, making his resale accumulated value, considered with the cost of legal financing a negative value. Bankruptcy was the only option.

His children, upstanding and well behaved were attending their new school and were now open to this information and influence. The effect in child rearing if they should find out about the past opened a new problem, in that he can no longer present a bone-fide authoritative example for child raising. It poses a potential hindrance to them and increases the likelihood of arguments in the family, which is his society and institution.

The measure of burden on his wife as now doubled. Some of her friends are no longer contacting. When the couple walk on the street, one would receive a greeting, and the other is snubbed. They live between their walls, and the neighbors know them as the strange ones. The bricks through the windows typically follow next.

This is one case. I have others, and even one where it was discovered he had received a pardon. A collective Alleluia! should have been proclaimed by the Church. One would think, what an opportunity for the Church to substantiate it’s principles of charity, substantiated forgiveness, and instill in her faithful the worth of striving to become a “New Man”. The message given by this discovery is “No” it is not futile. Not only this reason to rejoice, but the Church has just discovered that a civil body can express charity to a single individual, proving it’s teachings to that collective body bore fruit, Alleluia!. The Church in it’s statement of implementation said it would ‘work with the civil government’ on the screening process, as instead of a negative it has a long waited positive. But when it came to show the proper expression to the good news, the diocese this time asked him to back down out of the position and he agreed. Saints in our time, hey?

I hope these cases answer the question for you. It does show that my fellow Catholics are quite capable to follow through on renowned psychologist and Catholic the late Rene Girard’s theory called Mimetic Desire(scapegoating). It takes so little to injure people these days, and a study should be made to determine whether the effect of these common goods actually justify the tenfold compounding injuries it causes to people who have long paid their due.

 

[pianistclare]

When someone posts “the story goes…”

I check out.
Who committed the crime?

Can you imagine if the churches gave everyone a pass who had a crime in their past?
There would be no churches. No sacraments, no place of worship, no safety for the children and elderly.
Is it sad and ridiculous that we have to do these screenings in a Church? Yes.
But is paramount. I can’t envision a time where the Church will soften its stance on this.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t see what the big deal is, given that every job I’ve held past high school required a background check and in many cases they were fairly extensive. I think it’s important to protect children and vulnerable adults from harm as well as protect the parish finances from fraud, and I don’t think churches should be an exception to the general practice of employers. There’s been too much scandal and too much liability already.

 

[angell1]

When someone posts “the story goes…”

I check out.
Who committed the crime?

Can you imagine if the churches gave everyone a pass who had a crime in their past?
There would be no churches. No sacraments, no place of worship, no safety for the children and elderly.
Is it sad and ridiculous that we have to do these screenings in a Church? Yes.
But is paramount. I can’t envision a time where the Church will soften its stance on this.

and it depends on what the crime was, and whether or not it was pardoned. and what type of ministry you are trying to get in to

it’s not just a blanket shut-down for everyone.

no, these things should not be gossiped about outside of the screening process, that was a serious lack of confidentiality.

I’m all for more chances for people to repent and change, but security measures must be taken, unfortunately.

and just look what happened when these procedures weren’t in place. sex abuse scandals, anyone? not something we want to be happening

 

[Clevus]

Everyone who works for my Archdiocese in any capacity goes through this background check. It’s part of the “Safe Environment” process. I’ve been through it. If there’s nothing to hide; there’s nothing to worry about.

In my area it was initially implemented to address child molestation, and in a case by case basis. Any person with a criminal past would have been pleased to read the screening statement in my diocese. The statement said it would try to determine what would be suited to the person. The final decision to the priest or diocese administrator… Every job position had a level of security. It was also prioritized according to managerial, or worker. Searching screening policies on the web to determine norms, a typical situation had the dealing with children the highest for managerial and workers. It became less strict from then down. Groundskeeper and gravediggers in that priority order was the least concern. Choir was not all that strict also, but can’t recall what the position was. Collection was a concern for theft, but I found it strange because it was a deviation from the addressing the child molestation problem which prompted the screening initially. The theft action was an indicator that the screening was spreading to a no tolerance stage, so when it was proclaimed a no tolerance policy I wasn’t surprised.

Doing the research a year later, the parish priests decided they didn’t want the decision making and responsibility for the odd statistic, knowing the true heart of their congregation, so everything was made high priority. We now have Fort Apache the Church.

But it creates legal ecclesial problems for the Church. The past offenders are members too. The exclusion because of discrimination instead of job disqualification, makes their case in Canon law one of excommunication, and states that it can be incurred for a delict in civil crime. Restriction to community service is one penalty of that, so we have a precedent the Church needs to fall through on. Even if it doesn’t, it definitely needs to tell the person he is in the state of delict, to follow thru with posting of banns and the like. He is now in the state of de-facto excommunication.

It goes deeper but that’s enough for now. Bed time.

 

[graciew]

I was screened for hospice,nursing homes and hospital ministries and it was a very reasonable request . No issue,no problem and the least one can offer so that elderly and ill people can be at peace.
Also the Virtus training to be able to deal with children plus screening for hospital.
Apart from that I was months accompanying those who knew so that I learnt and they got to know me.
So grateful I had that chance to serve and a very reasonable request if you ask.
For Jail Ministry also,but that is kind of obvious that it will be requested and for a very good reason.
So,that is part of some transparency we need to offer. That we do it for free or volunteering doesn t mean that it isn t taken seriously.
It was the differently institutions then,some tears ago, ( hospital,nursing homes,etc) that asked for those screenings,so if we wanted to serve there,it had to be done( Plus some x rays for hospital…)
So the parrish complied and informed us and we had no problems overall .
The Virtus training was a Church request
Good point for ministries in US. ,they didn t know me rhat well,… there was also a letter from my pastor abroad requested .I did Visitation Ministry as an EMHC ( hope I write it well),not at Mass,there were enough.
I loved my parrish there,I have the best of memories,lovable persons !

 

[Clevus]

We can’t be talking about the same Church.

The nation is a society, and so is the Church, and so is the Family. As members of that nation society also, Catholics are able to effect changes in that society. They do so when they assume the capacity of citizen. Effect the change where it is needed, civil justice. If we don’t want them around, we should do something about it, but prepare to honor the consensus decision of God’s Authority for that society.

 

[Clevus]

I was screened for hospice,nursing homes and hospital ministries and it was a very reasonable request . No issue,no problem and the least one can offer so that elderly and ill people can be at peace.
Also the Virtus training to be able to deal with children plus screening for hospital.
Apart from that I was months accompanying those who knew so that I learnt and they got to know me.
So grateful I had that chance to serve and a very reasonable request if you ask.
For Jail Ministry also,but that is kind of obvious that it will be requested and for a very good reason.
So,that is part of some transparency we need to offer. That we do it for free or volunteering doesn t mean that it isn t taken seriously.
It was the differently institutions then,some tears ago, ( hospital,nursing homes,etc) that asked for those screenings,so if we wanted to serve there,it had to be done( Plus some x rays for hospital…)
So the parrish complied and informed us and we had no problems overall .
The Virtus training was a Church request
Good point for ministries in US. ,they didn t know me rhat well,… there was also a letter from my pastor abroad requested .I did Visitation Ministry as an EMHC ( hope I write it well),not at Mass,there were enough.
I loved my parrish there,I have the best of memories,lovable persons !

Glad it worked out well for you.

 

[graciew]

Glad it worked out well for you.

Yes ,it did,I cannot tell you enough how much I loved them and my time there.
I miss them all dearly!!
You are very loving and lovable as a people,it would be veeeery veeeery difficult to try and change my mind about it. .