Westboro Baptist Church and the Pope's Visit to the United States

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i thought they were sued and was forced to stop their protests? maybe i read the article wrong but i thought i read that somewhere.
They were successfully sued in the State of Maryland, they are now on a court-ordered lien on their properties and been told to begin paying up even as they file their appeal. However, they were not to discontinue their protest as that would be a violation of the 1st Amendment right. However, they more they protest, the question arises about how much money they claim to have, and how much they do have.
 
Nope! Phelps is a Democrat. (wikipedia)

Democratic Party
Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15% of the vote in 1998.[37] In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31% of the vote [38] Phelps ran for mayor of Topeka in 1993 [39] and 1997. [40]

Support for Al Gore
Phelps supported Al Gore in the 1988 Democratic Party primary election.[41] In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a “gay bill of rights” and stated that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirm”.[42] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[43] According to Phelps, members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore’s 1988 campaign in Kansas. Phelps’ son, Fred Phelps Jr., hosted a Gore fundraiser, which Al and Tipper Gore attended, at his home in Topeka.[10][43] Fred Phelps, Jr. [served as a Gore delegate to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.[43][44] Gore spokesman Dag Vega declined to comment; “We are not dignifying those stories with a response.”[45]**

This link gives more information and has pictures of Phelps with Al Gore. (scroll down the page)

sweetness-light.com/archive/westboro-is-neither-baptist-nor-fundamentalist

Of special interest:
While its members identify themselves as Baptists, the church is an independent church not affiliated with any known Baptist conventions or associations, nor does any Baptist institution recognize the church as a Bible believing fellowship. The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles.

In its entry for Fred Phelps, Sr., Wikipedia also notes:
During 1993–94 interviews with the Topeka Capital-Journal, the four Phelps children (out of thirteen, Mark, Nate, Katherine and Dotty) who had left the church asserted that their father’s religious beliefs were either nonexistent to begin with or have dwindled down to nearly nothing. They insist that Westboro actually serves to enable a paraphilia of Phelps, wherein he is literally addicted to hatred.

The WBC not only claims to hate homosexuals, but they are also anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic and racist — just for starters
Code:
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There are things we can do to oppose and help stop the hate from spreading. We need to pray for them, help protect those they have targeted as the Patriot Guard has been doing and by supporting the families who have been targeted in their lawsuits against the WBC.

I know we need a place where we can share information which is important. We need to know what we are up against. I just hope we do not get to the point that we are validating hatemongers. Should this be a concern?

God bless!

sherrose
 
Yet I do not hate the homosexual, nor the pornographer, the masturbater, the fornicater, the adulterer, the one who aborts, or the one who takes birth control. I cannot hate them. I have been them. If I have not done what they have done exactly, I have done it in spirit, just as I have murdered the soul, stolen, born false witness, coveted my neighbors goods, cursed both my mother and father, taken the Lord’s name in vain, profaned the Lord’s day, and forgotten my God because He was inconvenient to what I wanted to do. I am a sinner, and I recognize my sins for what they are. Therefore I hold no hatred in my heart for anyone who sins. What right have I to judge? I know all too well the pain and anguish and fear and anger which lead into sin, and so when I see someone who sins I know that it is their pain, their anguish, their fear, their anger which have led them where they are and they need more than ever the love which loves them exactly as they are where they are without condition or limits. So I give them that love to the best of my ability, as I give it to you.

Forgive those who have hurt you. Realize that it is their brokenness that caused them to hurt you. Put down the burdens of bitterness and anger which separate you from others, and take up the gifts of love and understanding which are so much lighter and easier to carry. When you are hated, remember that you are also loved. God does love you, with all of His heart. I love you, as a sister to a brother. If you have been hurt, don’t hold your hurt to you. Let it go. It only hurts you when you hold it near to you.

If you need an analogy, imagine that you have an antique mirror which was given to you by a grandmother that you love dearly. She passes away, and the mirror is all you have to remember her by. In an accident, the mirror is broken. You sweep up the shards of glass and cradle them close to you. They cut you, and you hold them dearer, refusing to let them go. The wounds they cause grow and spread because you will not let them go. Eventually the wounds become gangrenous, but still you will not let them go. You die, poisoned by the wounds which you cradled too close. These wounds that you cradle will fester and produce anger, bitterness, rage, depression. They will eat you from the inside out. Don’t hold onto them. If you want to honor the partner you lost, let go of the wounds and embrace him in your heart. Give to God your grief and your wounds, along with your tears. Trust in Him to show you how to heal.
Well said!
I hope you don’t mind if I use your analogy. 🙂

God bless!
sherrose
 
I have not stated a word for days, regarding the Church’s stance against homosexuality, amongst other things (female clerics, birth control, a woman’s right to chose <this is a funny one because here you have a great big group of old men, in the Vatican, deciding what is best for people not of their sex>, etc). I mean, you can beat Leviticus into the ground with its rules and regs yet how odd it is that only the ones that are used, or quoted, or confused, are the ones that prescribe themselves to hating or being against more than half of the world’s population. If we are going to play “Leviticus”, then why not sell your daughters, have a few wives, send your wives to a ‘mikva’ for cleansing after their periods and/or giving birth. Stop eating those yummy lobsters and surely a pork roast is out of the question. No more oyester’s Rockefeller, either. Do not use what is convenient, if you are going to play the “Levitical” game, play it right, otherwise you are all, we are all, hypocrites. Is this not so? Maybe a good stoning is needed now and then to make the point! After all, it is permitted, even encouraged as a punishment for breaking the Sabbath, eating any hooved beast, idol worship (those crossed will have to come down) in Levitcus. BUT…the world has made advancements, both culturally and scientifically and humanistically…which is why all but one of the above “Levitical” laws are extinct…looked on as absurd, by most. So, why is the “man shall not lie with man” also extinct? After all, homosexuals have been around since history began, no? It was, at least 2700 years ago when the Torah, where Leviticus is found, was put on paper and no longer an “oral” tradition. I mean, really now. I wonder when the American Medical Association finally states unequivocally that being gay is genetic. Medical. Not a choice, which they have stated it is 99.9%, will people change their minds? After all, as I have seen on posters, bumper stickers and such, ‘God Does Not Make ****’, would imply the gay population as well, right? Why do people hate homosexuals so much? Where is the threat? Why hate so much? If those of you who are not gay knew the abuse, physical and emotional hurled upon people who are gay, they would, I believe understand that it is not a choice any sane person would make.
The quote I read here, where the language is anything but Christian, is no different than Mr. Phelps yet the author choses to see him or herself different from Phelps. Different. I an not offended by the language, not even the sentiment, but am offended by the judgment placed upon me and those like me who have been hurt and beaten as I have been or killed, shot through the head, as my partner was, simply for walking in a gay neighborhood. No robbery. Just guns and blood. People ask why gay people live in gay ghettoes, and the reason is that there, we are more protected, not judged, not killed, usually. I resent the judgment placed upon my late partner for being gay because I believe that when you think that way, you might as well have been the one to pull the trigger and killed PJ.
However, I am not sure which is sadder, that PJ died honorably and with dignity, just being who he was, not hurting a fly, indeed he helped people, or the author of the above quote and those like him, who expend such energy hating. ‘Let He who Is Without Sin, Cast the First Stone’…Amen…“Let it be so.”
Sorry Sherry, I tried my best.
 
amongst other things (female clerics, birth control, a woman’s right to chose <this is a funny one because here you have a great big group of old men, in the Vatican, deciding what is best for people not of their sex>, etc).
And here you are, a man, commenting on things which are not about your sex. 😃 I am glad that you wish to defend women from what you perceive as oppression, it shows the nature of your character and that you have about you cultivated that natural tendency to protect and defend which is God’s gift to every man, without allowing yourself to abuse it in search of power. When I was 16 I was every bit as indignant as you. It seemed silly to me that I, a female, could not be permitted to become a priest and serve the Lord had that been my calling. I thought the Church degraded women, down played our importance in Christianity. It took me years before I saw and understood the reasons that the Church had and knew that it was right just as it was.

The Church is the Bride of Christ, and Mary is the model for the Church - pure, unstained by sin, faithful and obedient, humble and meek, filled with love and tender care for others. In the womb of Mary, Christ is gently nurtured. When we are baptized we die to our old selves and become a cell in that Body of Christ. We then gain Mary as our Mother, and God as our Father just as Christ has them. In the same way, we are given a Joseph, too, in the form of the Priesthood and most especially in the form of the Pope. As Mary is our model, we must be obedient when our Joseph tells us to go down to Egypt and move quickly. Joseph wasn’t oppressing Mary with his commandments, he was working to save her. Even so, the Priesthood and the Pope isn’t oppressing the Bride, but working to save Her and keep Her from harm.

The Male sex is born with the testosterone flowing through their veins which makes them stronger in muscles and often taller in size than a woman. This is because you (speaking with all men in mind here, not specifically you although it applies to you as well) were called to the front lines in a battle, to give your life if necessary for the woman that you love and to protect her and, by protecting her, protect your children. You are taller that the enemy may notice you first. You are stronger that you might have the best chance of winning and, if you do not win, give your wife and children the best chance of escaping by slowing the enemy down. When situations arise, your natural biological response is fight or flight. This is to help you to fulfill the task you were created to do. For this reason, it is important that a woman learn to obey her husband. When the wolves are at the door, the husband needs to be confident that his wife will listen to him and do as she should do so that he can give himself completely over to the battle at hand without worrying about her.

The woman is born smaller, less muscular and far more limber than a man. This makes it easier for her to hide. What she lacks in muscle she makes up for in courage and patience. When trouble comes, a woman has a natural tendency to seek other women and to gather her children to her. This is to help her to fulfill her role. She can keep multiple priorities juggling at the same time for prolonged periods of time, necessary for keeping groups of children focused and tended while her husband is out doing battle. It is sometimes said that the hardest battles are done behind the front lines, because behind the front lines you can only trust that God is doing what He can do for those on the front lines. This is why we gather other women to us when we are in trouble - because waiting patiently is easier when you have a support network to do so. Because it is her job to keep the children safe, children must obey their parents. A child who keeps running off or won’t be quiet when mother tells them to endangers not only themselves but everyone that their mother is trying to protect, as well as their father.

Children in danger naturally seek their mothers and, if they cannot find her, seek to hide. This is a God-given inclination designed to help protect them from danger. Usually it works quite effectively.

If the husband fails to do his job, then the wife must do both her job and his job and the three of them are sure to perish. Indeed if any of the three refuse to do their job the entire family is endangered. So it is with the Church. Priests are the front line defense for the Church. If we, as women, attempt to join them the Priests cannot do their job as effectively. We must do what we were created to do so that they can do what they were created to do effectively.

A woman’s right to choose ends where another life begins, just as my freedom ends where it treads upon yours. Freedom requires life. No life, no freedom. Birth control is evil. It does horrible things to a woman’s body (if you want to know the details, just visit the infertility forums), not to mention what it does to the unborn, and is an offense to God by attempting to stop Him from creating new life.
 
Sorry Sherry, I tried my best.
Some, not all, of my side of the family will have nothing to do with me and my family to the point that my husband and I were even threatened at one time. I could actually feel the hate coming in waves directed towards us. It’s a long story and I won’t get into it.

I don’t hate any of them and forgive them.

Forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling. It doesn’t mean that the hurt done to us is okay. It means that we are no longer willing to carry that hurt around any more. It doesn’t mean that we have to be around whoever hurts us or put ourselves in the same situation. We forgive for their sake, for our sake and most of all for God, for that is what He calls us to do.

I daily pray for a deeper faith, conversion, forgiveness and healing for myself, my family, my friends, all families and all marriages. I will keep you in my prayers.

God bless!
 
This group needs our prayers, and, of course, so do the people that they hurt.
 
I’m sad to say that I’ve encountered these people when they showed up to protest the funeral of a dear friend who was killed in Iraq. We were fortunate that the Patriot Guard was at the funeral in full force and protected my friend’s widow, children, and family from seeing the signs that said terrible things like, GySgt. _____ is burning in hell today"

These people are incredibly vicious. The amount of hate that they bear for basically everyone in the world except themselves is heartbreaking. I’ve struggled ever since that funeral not to hate them right back. It’s hard though. I try to pray for them on days like this when I start to feel angry towards them.

I will say this, while it is a good opportunity for the Pope and Catholics everywhere to demonstrate real Christian love, I truly hope that they don’t get anywhere near Pope Benedict this week. There are so many faithful Catholics who are hoping and praying just to catch a glimpse of him - these people don’t deserve that privilege.
 
I will say this, while it is a good opportunity for the Pope and Catholics everywhere to demonstrate real Christian love, I truly hope that they don’t get anywhere near Pope Benedict this week. There are so many faithful Catholics who are hoping and praying just to catch a glimpse of him - these people don’t deserve that privilege.
None of us deserve the privilege of being Christ’s sisters and brothers, either. Perhaps the shadow of the Pope will fall upon them and heal their brokenness so that they can remember how to love and, in loving, to be human again.

Acts 4:15 “Thus they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on one or another of them.”
 
None of us deserve the privilege of being Christ’s sisters and brothers, either. Perhaps the shadow of the Pope will fall upon them and heal their brokenness so that they can remember how to love and, in loving, to be human again.

Acts 4:15 “Thus they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on one or another of them.”
You’re right! I pray that this will come to pass, despite my disdain for these people…
 
😦 Me and the Catechism disagree with that. It is the bad, not the good that scares people away.
2125 …sin against the virtue of religion. The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. “**Believers **can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to **conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion.” **

That is precisely my point: We have all heard it said that the Pope is the “Whore of Babylon”, and “the Pope is the Anti-Christ”, and a long line of other non-sense. They are taught from infancy that the Catholic Church is bad…“They worship saints and pray to statues.” But yet, look at the crowds the Pope draws when he comes to the United States; not all of those people are Catholics, and more than a few Protestants are keenly interested in the encyclicals and other writings of the Popes.
My point is that when you are a member of a religion that firmly believes in self-interpretation of the Bible, there is a lot of room for maneuvering there that allows you to believe whatever you want to, which of course, leaves room for plenty of error. But the Church holds to the truth rather than forming warm fuzzies based on what the individual wants a particular biblical passage to say. The Church’s attempt is to form people to God’s image, while it seems to me that the Protestant sects have spent centuries trying to form God to their image. Truth can be very frightening to such a mind-set, especially if it interferes with how people want to live.
When I was in college, I had to do a study on swingers for a psychology class. What I learned amazed me: most of the people engaged in that lifestyle regularly attend church services. But how they get around the adultery issue is by redefining the word. They theorize that it is not adultery if all adults involved are consenting. If it is done with the partner’s full knowledge, it is not adultery. The Church, of course, holds a very and more accurate view. The Church does not permit such violations of the sacrament of marriage, so the easiest way around that is don’t be Catholic; join a religion that allows you freedom of self-interpretation of the Bible. I think most people fear the authority of the Church. Who wants light shed in a room where there is so much going on in the dark? I apologize (my indent key isn’t working here, sorry) for not clarifying my statement in my original post.
God Bless.
Dave
 
And here you are, a man, commenting on things which are not about your sex. 😃 I am glad that you wish to defend women from what you perceive as oppression, it shows the nature of your character and that you have about you cultivated that natural tendency to protect and defend which is God’s gift to every man, without allowing yourself to abuse it in search of power. When I was 16 I was every bit as indignant as you. It seemed silly to me that I, a female, could not be permitted to become a priest and serve the Lord had that been my calling. I thought the Church degraded women, down played our importance in Christianity. It took me years before I saw and understood the reasons that the Church had and knew that it was right just as it was.

The Church is the Bride of Christ, and Mary is the model for the Church - pure, unstained by sin, faithful and obedient, humble and meek, filled with love and tender care for others. In the womb of Mary, Christ is gently nurtured. When we are baptized we die to our old selves and become a cell in that Body of Christ. We then gain Mary as our Mother, and God as our Father just as Christ has them. In the same way, we are given a Joseph, too, in the form of the Priesthood and most especially in the form of the Pope. As Mary is our model, we must be obedient when our Joseph tells us to go down to Egypt and move quickly. Joseph wasn’t oppressing Mary with his commandments, he was working to save her. Even so, the Priesthood and the Pope isn’t oppressing the Bride, but working to save Her and keep Her from harm.

The Male sex is born with the testosterone flowing through their veins which makes them stronger in muscles and often taller in size than a woman. This is because you (speaking with all men in mind here, not specifically you although it applies to you as well) were called to the front lines in a battle, to give your life if necessary for the woman that you love and to protect her and, by protecting her, protect your children. You are taller that the enemy may notice you first. You are stronger that you might have the best chance of winning and, if you do not win, give your wife and children the best chance of escaping by slowing the enemy down. When situations arise, your natural biological response is fight or flight. This is to help you to fulfill the task you were created to do. For this reason, it is important that a woman learn to obey her husband. When the wolves are at the door, the husband needs to be confident that his wife will listen to him and do as she should do so that he can give himself completely over to the battle at hand without worrying about her.

The woman is born smaller, less muscular and far more limber than a man. This makes it easier for her to hide. What she lacks in muscle she makes up for in courage and patience. When trouble comes, a woman has a natural tendency to seek other women and to gather her children to her. This is to help her to fulfill her role. She can keep multiple priorities juggling at the same time for prolonged periods of time, necessary for keeping groups of children focused and tended while her husband is out doing battle. It is sometimes said that the hardest battles are done behind the front lines, because behind the front lines you can only trust that God is doing what He can do for those on the front lines. This is why we gather other women to us when we are in trouble - because waiting patiently is easier when you have a support network to do so. Because it is her job to keep the children safe, children must obey their parents. A child who keeps running off or won’t be quiet when mother tells them to endangers not only themselves but everyone that their mother is trying to protect, as well as their father.

Children in danger naturally seek their mothers and, if they cannot find her, seek to hide. This is a God-given inclination designed to help protect them from danger. Usually it works quite effectively.

If the husband fails to do his job, then the wife must do both her job and his job and the three of them are sure to perish. Indeed if any of the three refuse to do their job the entire family is endangered. So it is with the Church. Priests are the front line defense for the Church. If we, as women, attempt to join them the Priests cannot do their job as effectively. We must do what we were created to do so that they can do what they were created to do effectively.

A woman’s right to choose ends where another life begins, just as my freedom ends where it treads upon yours. Freedom requires life. No life, no freedom. Birth control is evil. It does horrible things to a woman’s body (if you want to know the details, just visit the infertility forums), not to mention what it does to the unborn, and is an offense to God by attempting to stop Him from creating new life.
What an exceptional way to explain this. I may have to thieve this from you to use myself.🙂
 
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