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Yerusalyim
Guest
I think we can argue they aren’t even Christian, much less Protestant.
Westboro Baptist Church and the Pope's Visit to the United States
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Bennie_P
Guest
Well here we go, what a wacky world, first we get reports of the exremist on the far left of the “gay” rights movement planning on protesting the Pope by throwing condoms on him and now we get reports the exremist that take hate to the utmost level protesting his visit too.
Sometimes, I think they both are on the same side. both use the same intolorant actions that border on violence.
A Note * to those that think most Christians hate those that struggle with Same Sex Attraction, you are wrong. the unacceptance of immoral behavior and dicussing it based on scripture and acceptable moral standards is not hate.
Please don’t tie those that try, many times in an imperfect way, to point out the falicies and contradictions of the “gay” lifestyle, with the actions of the WBC. many such as the Patriot Riders don’t accept the “gay” lifestyle as being acceptable, but they also don’t believe others should be ridiculed, or targeted with hateful and/or violent actions.
Just meditate a little on the actions of the extremist - then meditate a little on the word of God.
PAX to all.
Sometimes, I think they both are on the same side. both use the same intolorant actions that border on violence.A Note * to those that think most Christians hate those that struggle with Same Sex Attraction, you are wrong. the unacceptance of immoral behavior and dicussing it based on scripture and acceptable moral standards is not hate.
Please don’t tie those that try, many times in an imperfect way, to point out the falicies and contradictions of the “gay” lifestyle, with the actions of the WBC. many such as the Patriot Riders don’t accept the “gay” lifestyle as being acceptable, but they also don’t believe others should be ridiculed, or targeted with hateful and/or violent actions.
Just meditate a little on the actions of the extremist - then meditate a little on the word of God.
PAX to all.
J
JudyLH
Guest
We live in Maryland, where there was a lawsuit and judgment against WBC. Over the weekend, two teenagers died in a tragic car accident here, and the WBC web site says it plans to show up and protest at their funerals. Why? Because according to WBC, the death of the teens was God’s judgment on Maryland for persecuting them.
These people are seriously whacked. We think it is an excellent idea to pray for them. Needless to say, the community is very upset to hear they might show up to protest at the funerals of these kids. But out of respect for the families, there will be no counter-protest. I understand the Patriot Guard will also not be attending, because these are not the funerals of people who died in Iraq, and that is the Patriot Guard’s mission.
Thanks to everyone for their prayers for members of WBC. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see Fred Phelps wake up one day and realize how very wrong he’s been all these years?
Judy
These people are seriously whacked. We think it is an excellent idea to pray for them. Needless to say, the community is very upset to hear they might show up to protest at the funerals of these kids. But out of respect for the families, there will be no counter-protest. I understand the Patriot Guard will also not be attending, because these are not the funerals of people who died in Iraq, and that is the Patriot Guard’s mission.
Thanks to everyone for their prayers for members of WBC. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see Fred Phelps wake up one day and realize how very wrong he’s been all these years?
Judy
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GaryPeter
Guest
I write to thank Ms. Miller, BRANDYMILLER, on her heartfelt and brave message to me. Your forthrightness and courage in the face of the most atrocious things that could happen to one, especially as a child, was chilling but also a triumph for you. In sharing that with a person whom you do not know, is a lesson as well as blessing for us all to read.
However, I would ask you ro scroll through the postings and see the inference to ‘fags’ that perhaps is not as literal as the WBC placards, “GOD HATES FAGS”, “AIDS CURES FAGS”, MATTHEW AND PJ IN HELL" (in reference to Matthew Shepherd who was crucified, literally, in Wyoming for being gay and my partner, Pj, for the same reason), “SOLDIERS IN HELL”…but the feeling is still there. The fact that people talk about a gay agenda and put the word ‘gay’ in quotes, is odd to me. Prettier prose, perhaps but same inference. To have such sentiments against the young men and women who are out there defending this nation as it is something they believe they should do, and are doing it with pure heart, is sickening.
Yesterday, when I posted my message about the WBC and the Pope’s visit, I alluded to and shared a story that incorporated my feelings about being a gay and Catholic man and my experience with the Church and their rejection when I probably needed them most. People have discussed this ‘gay agenda’ of which I am not aware of, and I am rather aware of things that are going on. People have stated that “gay” people will be throwing condoms at the Pope and this, too, I have heard naught, of. However, if condoms are thrown, it is not a gay protest but an AIDS project. I would interpret their feeling that the use of condoms is not an issue of birth control, anymore, but a matter of life and death. Is it the right time and place to do such a thing, of course not.
I have received so many messages regarding my messages and responses that I am overwhelmed. Some have asked for my email address which I have given, to most. Most of the emails I have gotten are kind and loving. So different from the messages, if you have time to read them, at the WBC website. Hate filled and disgusting words. Pix of the kids, most ‘intus prosapia’ or within the same family, who are holding the above signs, or similar. I think those kids, as the kids in Texas in the Mormon compound, should be promptly removed so they can learn to think for themselves. I have written to the WBC, always ending with a prayer, for them. Not hateful at all. It has been suggested that it is ok to be gay as long as you don’t act out on these feelings. It is compared to not having sex with someone until married. If this was a similar situation, then I know that gay people would be lining up to have committment ceremonies done, with the asssistance of their spiritual guide, whether it be a priest, rabbi, minister, iman. That is not a choice, though, given to us all. The WBC, I believe, has as much to do the Word of God as a roast beef sandwich. Niente. Nothing.
In this world, where there is so much hatred, violence, mayhem, blood and bullets being flung around, in all societies, it is nice to see the word “Love” rather than “Hate” being used.
I am appreciative and grateful to those who have showed kindness toward me and my late partner, here on this site and in emails. A motto I use, often, is the Latin “Foi Vanquera”, faith heals/conquers all…and I would ask all out there to look for similarities and commonalities rather than differences, whether it is toward me or a Muslim neighbor or a person of a different color. I, as I have been doing, will pray for those in the WBC, especially the kids, and for all of you. I am tired, so tired, of having to do battle against people I do not know and issues that are so repellant. It is better, for me, to pray.
Peace.
However, I would ask you ro scroll through the postings and see the inference to ‘fags’ that perhaps is not as literal as the WBC placards, “GOD HATES FAGS”, “AIDS CURES FAGS”, MATTHEW AND PJ IN HELL" (in reference to Matthew Shepherd who was crucified, literally, in Wyoming for being gay and my partner, Pj, for the same reason), “SOLDIERS IN HELL”…but the feeling is still there. The fact that people talk about a gay agenda and put the word ‘gay’ in quotes, is odd to me. Prettier prose, perhaps but same inference. To have such sentiments against the young men and women who are out there defending this nation as it is something they believe they should do, and are doing it with pure heart, is sickening.
Yesterday, when I posted my message about the WBC and the Pope’s visit, I alluded to and shared a story that incorporated my feelings about being a gay and Catholic man and my experience with the Church and their rejection when I probably needed them most. People have discussed this ‘gay agenda’ of which I am not aware of, and I am rather aware of things that are going on. People have stated that “gay” people will be throwing condoms at the Pope and this, too, I have heard naught, of. However, if condoms are thrown, it is not a gay protest but an AIDS project. I would interpret their feeling that the use of condoms is not an issue of birth control, anymore, but a matter of life and death. Is it the right time and place to do such a thing, of course not.
I have received so many messages regarding my messages and responses that I am overwhelmed. Some have asked for my email address which I have given, to most. Most of the emails I have gotten are kind and loving. So different from the messages, if you have time to read them, at the WBC website. Hate filled and disgusting words. Pix of the kids, most ‘intus prosapia’ or within the same family, who are holding the above signs, or similar. I think those kids, as the kids in Texas in the Mormon compound, should be promptly removed so they can learn to think for themselves. I have written to the WBC, always ending with a prayer, for them. Not hateful at all. It has been suggested that it is ok to be gay as long as you don’t act out on these feelings. It is compared to not having sex with someone until married. If this was a similar situation, then I know that gay people would be lining up to have committment ceremonies done, with the asssistance of their spiritual guide, whether it be a priest, rabbi, minister, iman. That is not a choice, though, given to us all. The WBC, I believe, has as much to do the Word of God as a roast beef sandwich. Niente. Nothing.
In this world, where there is so much hatred, violence, mayhem, blood and bullets being flung around, in all societies, it is nice to see the word “Love” rather than “Hate” being used.
I am appreciative and grateful to those who have showed kindness toward me and my late partner, here on this site and in emails. A motto I use, often, is the Latin “Foi Vanquera”, faith heals/conquers all…and I would ask all out there to look for similarities and commonalities rather than differences, whether it is toward me or a Muslim neighbor or a person of a different color. I, as I have been doing, will pray for those in the WBC, especially the kids, and for all of you. I am tired, so tired, of having to do battle against people I do not know and issues that are so repellant. It is better, for me, to pray.
Peace.
A
ack
Guest
Attention CAF members: we need you!
As you may have already heard, there will be two principle moments for a Popemobile Motorcade (route information below). The Archdiocese is expected to be inundated by protesters from across the country who are also coming in to see the Pope. As a result, we are trying to mobilize all the faithful Catholic supporters to line the streets early. So grab your T-shirts, flags, banners, guitars, and please spread the word!
As you may have already heard, there will be two principle moments for a Popemobile Motorcade (route information below). The Archdiocese is expected to be inundated by protesters from across the country who are also coming in to see the Pope. As a result, we are trying to mobilize all the faithful Catholic supporters to line the streets early. So grab your T-shirts, flags, banners, guitars, and please spread the word!
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MORE ROUTE INFORMATION:
After the pope’s **April 16 **visit at the White House, **around noon****, the pope will travel in the popemobile to the Vatican Embassy on Massachusetts Avenue. From the White House, the route will follow Pennsylvania Avenue to Washington Circle. From there, the motorcade will head toward Massachusetts Avenue through Rock Creek Parkway, to the residence located across from the U.S. Naval Observatory.**
The public generally can see the pope from the sidewalks throughout the route. Sidewalks immediately in front of the White House and Lafayette Park, directly across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House, will be closed to the public. Washington Circle also will be closed as a viewing location.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The Westboro Baptist Church is just another right-wing neoconservative group.
Most Americans see them for what they are.
Jim
Most Americans see them for what they are.
Jim
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VietCatholic83
Guest
their agenda really isn’t about converting anyone. i watched a documentary on them by a British journalist who lived with the Phelps family for a month or so. Their theology is so extremely flawed that it would take too long to go into all of it. Basically, they just want to spread the message of God’s “hatred” for pretty much everyone who is not them. The Holy Father has been through more difficult experiences than this one throughout the course of his life. I will pray for the Pope’s safety and success of his trip to the US.
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Gisella
Guest
I think getting mad over this “church” is a waste of energy. They have no real power. No one takes them seriously. Taking any action against them just gives them what they want: attention! I don’t have any desire to question their right to freedom of speech. I choose to ignore what they say.
I don’t think it’s fair to lump these people with any political group. Conservatives hate them because they protest the funerals of fallen soldiers. Liberals hate them because they protest the funerals of gay people. Just about everyone hates them, and they hate everyone back.
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Yerusalyim
Guest
No, they are an extermist group, to include them in the “conservative” camp is spurious.
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GaryPeter
Guest
Well, Oy Vey to that quote! I was going to try to not say anything further, period…but, To not include the WBC in the realm of Conservatism, is an untruth and although their agenda’s vary, the sentiment is the same. Same sentiment, uglier prose.
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kristie_m
Guest
Well, I’m a conservative, and definitely don’t appreciate getting lumped together with these hate-mongers.
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Yerusalyim
Guest
Nope, not the same sentiments, not the same agenda…not the same anything.
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AlaAnnie
Guest
A year or so ago there was a tragic school bus wreck in our city and 4 children were killed. WBC came to protest at the funerals. The city required them to obtain a permit and “assigned” them a spot across the street for the protest. Just before funeral time, city busses arrived and sat running in the street where they were blocked from the view of the church. God bless our city officials.
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kristie_m
Guest
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GaryPeter
Guest
I dod not mean to infer all Conservatives in with the WBC so forgive me if that was what was understood. I seem to not be able to express myself clearly or accurately and apologize to those whom I offended. You know, all I want, and I do not think it is a Liberal or Conservative issue and most definately not a WBC trait, but all I want is to be treated openly as myself, whether it be in a church, courtroom or restaurant. Myself. However, in my eyes and in the eyes of many of me peers, it appears that the Conservative movement is congruous with the Evangelical movement and that movement, with whom the WBC is identified as it is a right wing religious group, has openly and often told me how they feel about the likes of me, again is a more tidy way than the WBC. However, I do not and want to take away from this site’s goal and further and if anyone has issue with me or what I say, you can email me at laprimavendetta@aol.com. I so regret that I ever posted anything, at all and will not disturb anyone further.
EGO REPUTO VOS PROTESTOR NIMINIUM
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Catholic_Dave
Guest
I have long held a theory that those people and (Protestant) organizations that claim to “hate” the Catholic Church live either in fear of her, are intensely envious of her true authority, or both. I live in an area that is predominantly something called “Apostolic Lutheran” and the members of that religion really crack me up more than anything. They shout things like, “The Catholics added seven books to the Bible,” “The Catholics have five sacraments that aren’t in the Bible,”, and a host of others that go hand in hand with the ignorance of Protestantism. Yet, they cannot utter one thing that the Church does believe, and are just repeating what they heard their parents say as they were growing up. But there is not one Protestant sect that can trace its origins back to the Jesus, or to Peter. They don’t even try. And they don’t deny that the Catholic Church can and does. I don’t think that they are full of hate so much as that in their heart of hearts, they know their own religion is lacking something, and they fear that the Church they were raised to oppose is actually the Church founded by Christ. Everybody fears being wrong, but when you are talking about the religion that you are raised to believe is the true one, and Catholic Church was there first, and still has a Pope, it scares them.
I dunno. It’s just a theory that I have. What does anyone else think?:newidea:
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desert_cath
Guest
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Steadfast_love
Guest
Me and the Catechism disagree with that. It is the bad, not the good that scares people away.2125 …sin against the virtue of religion. The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. “**Believers **can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to **conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion.” **
Of course the flip side is that *good *Catholics save souls. May God repay them!
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Steadfast_love
Guest
Nope! Phelps is a Democrat. (wikipedia)
Democratic Party
Phelps has run in various Kansas Democratic Party primaries five times, but has never won. These included races for governor in 1990, 1994, and 1998, receiving about 15% of the vote in 1998.[37] In the 1992 Democratic Party primary for U.S. Senate, Phelps received 31% of the vote [38] Phelps ran for mayor of Topeka in 1993 [39] and 1997. [40]
Support for Al Gore
Phelps supported Al Gore in the 1988 Democratic Party primary election.[41] In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a “gay bill of rights” and stated that homosexuality was not something that “society should affirm”.[42] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[43] According to Phelps, members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore’s 1988 campaign in Kansas. Phelps’ son, Fred Phelps Jr., hosted a Gore fundraiser, which Al and Tipper Gore attended, at his home in Topeka.[10][43] Fred Phelps, Jr. [served as a Gore delegate to the 1988 Democratic National Convention.[43][44] Gore spokesman Dag Vega declined to comment; “We are not dignifying those stories with a response.”[45]**
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brandymmiller
Guest
I am a conservative. I believe that the practice of homosexuality is a sin because that is what my God has said. I believe that marriage can only be between man and woman because that is what my God has said. I believe that pornography, masturbation, fornication, and adultery are sins because that is what my God has said. I believe that abortion and birth control are evil because that is what my God has said.
Yet I do not hate the homosexual, nor the pornographer, the masturbater, the fornicater, the adulterer, the one who aborts, or the one who takes birth control. I cannot hate them. I have been them. If I have not done what they have done exactly, I have done it in spirit, just as I have murdered the soul, stolen, born false witness, coveted my neighbors goods, cursed both my mother and father, taken the Lord’s name in vain, profaned the Lord’s day, and forgotten my God because He was inconvenient to what I wanted to do. I am a sinner, and I recognize my sins for what they are. Therefore I hold no hatred in my heart for anyone who sins. What right have I to judge? I know all too well the pain and anguish and fear and anger which lead into sin, and so when I see someone who sins I know that it is their pain, their anguish, their fear, their anger which have led them where they are and they need more than ever the love which loves them exactly as they are where they are without condition or limits. So I give them that love to the best of my ability, as I give it to you.
Forgive those who have hurt you. Realize that it is their brokenness that caused them to hurt you. Put down the burdens of bitterness and anger which separate you from others, and take up the gifts of love and understanding which are so much lighter and easier to carry. When you are hated, remember that you are also loved. God does love you, with all of His heart. I love you, as a sister to a brother. If you have been hurt, don’t hold your hurt to you. Let it go. It only hurts you when you hold it near to you.
If you need an analogy, imagine that you have an antique mirror which was given to you by a grandmother that you love dearly. She passes away, and the mirror is all you have to remember her by. In an accident, the mirror is broken. You sweep up the shards of glass and cradle them close to you. They cut you, and you hold them dearer, refusing to let them go. The wounds they cause grow and spread because you will not let them go. Eventually the wounds become gangrenous, but still you will not let them go. You die, poisoned by the wounds which you cradled too close. These wounds that you cradle will fester and produce anger, bitterness, rage, depression. They will eat you from the inside out. Don’t hold onto them. If you want to honor the partner you lost, let go of the wounds and embrace him in your heart. Give to God your grief and your wounds, along with your tears. Trust in Him to show you how to heal.
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