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AlNg
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Suppose a Roman Catholic, with full knowledge and full consent, commits one mortal sin and does not repent before death. Will he still be able to go to heaven?
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Hard to say, theres purgatory for that too. Ive heard of atleast one case where dead person did not want to forgive someone’s sin so he remained in purgatory. Nevertheless, God judges people, all we can judge are sins themselves.
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dochawk
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EO and EC both have a “conflicted” relationship with the subject. The distinction isn’t recognized, even denied–but, nonetheless, prominent theologians have written entire volumes about it . . .JohnLawson:
I’d never have guessed EO Bishops would allow that, wow. That is actually very interesting.
Provided people understand canon law and western orthodoxy
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That’s the real catch here. I wasn’t aware of anyone but the AOC recognizing the notion.
I haven’t the foggiest whether the RCC will recognize hims as western orthodox, or ROCOR.
For that matter, this is the first instance I’ve heard of swimming from WO to RC; it’s largely the other direction, and sometimes Protestants, too.
hawk
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Perhaps problem will be with perception of people but canon law is clearly on his side of becoming Latin Catholic.
And about mortal and venial sins… I’d call out unnecessary anti-Latin attitude as main reason for denouncing it as heresy anyway. Would be akin to anti-Eastern attitude from trad catholics towards doctrinal interpretation of East. Doesnt AOC sponsor western orthodoxy in a way? Might be reason.
Its very encouraging though. It made my day a lot better to be honest.
And about mortal and venial sins… I’d call out unnecessary anti-Latin attitude as main reason for denouncing it as heresy anyway. Would be akin to anti-Eastern attitude from trad catholics towards doctrinal interpretation of East. Doesnt AOC sponsor western orthodoxy in a way? Might be reason.
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dochawk
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One way another, whether directly for fairly quilt thereafter. But if WRO isn’t recognized, there’s no canon law support for it as a base . . . but all in all, it makes little difference, as he could trivially change rite to latin.
I’ve never seen it denounced as heresy (which doesn’t mean it isn’t common). It’s just, AFAIK, that the distinction isn’t recognized.
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RomanChristian
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The Tridentine Mass is not the nomal Mass said in the Church today you are going have to work on finding a parish that has it. I’m sure why you want to pit your through this but different stokes for different folks. If you wnat to know in a few years you will leave Roman Catholic Church you will go through some of what I ended up going through it’s your road you have choosen to walk.
I was once a Traditionlist Catholic but got push out the Novus Ordo Religionist a Nun to be Frank. So I left for good and got Baptized in a Russian Orthodox Church and have truly found my place in Mother Church…
I was once a Traditionlist Catholic but got push out the Novus Ordo Religionist a Nun to be Frank. So I left for good and got Baptized in a Russian Orthodox Church and have truly found my place in Mother Church…
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Margaret_Ann
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ONE sin caused 1/3 of the angels to become demons. ONE sin caused Adam and Eve to lose Paradise. ONE mortal sin can send a person to Hell.
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
wait wait wait, you got rebaptized? That’s contrary to Nicene Creed, and therefore contrary to faith. Kinda sacrilegious from Russian Orthodox Church too. I’m pretty sure this guy is fine converting to Church that does not do that, not sure why you think he will leave it. As St. Ignatius of Loyola said, to think one’s spiritual path is same as yours is naive.
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dochawk
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While different EO churches are all over the board on this, the ROC itself, is, too. They range from re-baptism in defiance of the early councils affirming the validity of baptism by heretics (Arians, in particular), to accepting priests at times by “vesting”, and accepting their orders.
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angelic06
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Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums!
I know this if off topic, but I am just wondering: how well is the Western Rite respected in Orthodoxy?
I know this if off topic, but I am just wondering: how well is the Western Rite respected in Orthodoxy?
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TomH1
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I’m going to begin my answer with the disclaimer that I’m not a canon lawyer.
I think you should go to see a catholic priest. There’s a good chance the priest you see won’t be an canon lawyer so I’d hope he’d refer the matter to one as his diocese will have them.
My understanding is that if a person belongs to a non-Catholic Christian church or ecclesial community that if they are received into the Catholic Church they become a member of that Catholic Church sui iuris that is closest in praxis to the church or ecclesial community they have left. Therefore, in your case that would mean you would become a member of the Russian Catholic Church.
It is possible to transfer between churches sui iuris so it may be possible to transfer to the Latin Catholic Church after you become a member of the Russian Catholic Church. You would need to take advice on this because I don’t really know the procedure or how easy it is.
Even if you become a member of the Russian Catholic Church all Catholic churches in communion with the Holy See are fully recognised and as a Catholic you can validly attend Mass/Divine Liturgy in any of them and receive Communion in any of them. Receiving some other sacraments may be a little more difficult, though, most noticeably, marriage.
I think you should go to see a catholic priest. There’s a good chance the priest you see won’t be an canon lawyer so I’d hope he’d refer the matter to one as his diocese will have them.
My understanding is that if a person belongs to a non-Catholic Christian church or ecclesial community that if they are received into the Catholic Church they become a member of that Catholic Church sui iuris that is closest in praxis to the church or ecclesial community they have left. Therefore, in your case that would mean you would become a member of the Russian Catholic Church.
It is possible to transfer between churches sui iuris so it may be possible to transfer to the Latin Catholic Church after you become a member of the Russian Catholic Church. You would need to take advice on this because I don’t really know the procedure or how easy it is.
Even if you become a member of the Russian Catholic Church all Catholic churches in communion with the Holy See are fully recognised and as a Catholic you can validly attend Mass/Divine Liturgy in any of them and receive Communion in any of them. Receiving some other sacraments may be a little more difficult, though, most noticeably, marriage.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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Problem with that is clearly that he is bound by Eastern Canon Law, as well as Eastern Feasts etc.
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dochawk
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That’s exactly what isn’t clear: is he bound by Eastern by membership in ROCOR, or by Western from his rite in ROCOR . . ,
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runningdude
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To “convert”, you would make an profession of faith before your bishop or a designated priest. (You would not technically convert, but enter communion).
I am uncertain if you would automatically be Latin Rite, but if not automatic it is possible to be transfer with the permission of the local Eastern Catholic bishop serving your rite. Your pastor may need to check with the Latin diocese and the eparchy.
I am uncertain if you would automatically be Latin Rite, but if not automatic it is possible to be transfer with the permission of the local Eastern Catholic bishop serving your rite. Your pastor may need to check with the Latin diocese and the eparchy.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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He would be* is what I meant- if he became eastern and just attended Latin Masses.
I am still pretty convinced Canon Law speaks for
him staying Western, but that heavily depends on who will be judge of that in his situation.
I am still pretty convinced Canon Law speaks for
him staying Western, but that heavily depends on who will be judge of that in his situation.
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TomH1
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I do not see why that is a problem.
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OrbisNonSufficit
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Because he needs to observe different Feasts he wont be informed of in Latin Church and Canon Law, can’t get married in Latin Church without approval of East (formalities, but annoying I imagine). Its not strictly problem, but complication and unnecessary one at that.
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TomH1
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The problem he really does have though is he is required to become a Russian Catholic if he is received into the Catholic Church. It would not be too difficult to get a list of feasts he must observe and, unless the Eastern Code of Canon Law is different from the Latin Code, he would be able to fulfil any obligation at a Latin Catholic church. Marriage is not something one does often (I hope!) and I think most of the headache with the paperwork would be for the priest not the OP.
Of course, what is open to him is to be received into the Catholic Church in the Russian Catholic Church. Then after some time he can ask to transfer to the Latin Catholic Church. I believe he would have to be attending a Latin catholic church on a regular basis prior to being allowed to transfer.
He may also have a very practical problem. Although he would canonically become a Russian Catholic if he were received into the Catholic Church he may not readily find a Russian Catholic church to attend. He may out of necessity have to go to another Eastern Catholic church or to a Latin one.
Of course, what is open to him is to be received into the Catholic Church in the Russian Catholic Church. Then after some time he can ask to transfer to the Latin Catholic Church. I believe he would have to be attending a Latin catholic church on a regular basis prior to being allowed to transfer.
He may also have a very practical problem. Although he would canonically become a Russian Catholic if he were received into the Catholic Church he may not readily find a Russian Catholic church to attend. He may out of necessity have to go to another Eastern Catholic church or to a Latin one.
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Michael_Anthony
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Ordained Eastern Catholics can celebrate Western Rite Mass and vice versa, so it really just depends on circumstance and what you want, you may be required to be received as a Russian Catholic, but allowed to receive Latin Rite Holy Orders and serve in a Latin Rite diocese.
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CoffeeFanatic
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I have a question (sorry if I’m intruding here). I’m also Orthodox (Antiochian Byzantine Rite). I have a great love for the Byzantine rite and definitely prefer it. I really get a lot out of the Divine Liturgy.
However, there are no Eastern Catholic parishes of any kind near me. The closest such parish (Melkite) is over four hours away. There is a church near me that has mass in the Ordinary Form (NO?), Extraordinary Form, and also has an Anglican Ordinariate parish. I really like the Ordinariate mass- not nearly as well as Divine Liturgy- but well enough. If I were to ever become Catholic- how would this work for me? I’d still want to be Byzantine rite- because if that were an option I’d be there- and I would miss it terribly (you don’t even know).
ETA: Also- I wouldn’t be expected to change the way I cross myself- would I? It’s ingrained now.
However, there are no Eastern Catholic parishes of any kind near me. The closest such parish (Melkite) is over four hours away. There is a church near me that has mass in the Ordinary Form (NO?), Extraordinary Form, and also has an Anglican Ordinariate parish. I really like the Ordinariate mass- not nearly as well as Divine Liturgy- but well enough. If I were to ever become Catholic- how would this work for me? I’d still want to be Byzantine rite- because if that were an option I’d be there- and I would miss it terribly (you don’t even know).
ETA: Also- I wouldn’t be expected to change the way I cross myself- would I? It’s ingrained now.
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