Let’s suppose we are at a Vietnamese restaurant.
Unconscious decisions are made.Bradskii:
Let’s suppose we are at a Vietnamese restaurant.
Do we have a free choice for soup between either
Shrimp noodle soup or
Seafood noodle soup.
Or is the choice driven by something we don’t know about?
Do we have freedom to choose between
Shredded pork or
Pork meatloaf.
What will drive us to make this choice, or is it a matter of free choice and free will?
The choice was between
Are you being purposely obtuse?Bradskii:
The choice was between
Shredded pork or
Pork meatloaf.
There is no chicken involved in this decision. And we assume that the prices are the same.
There is very little difference between the two choices as they both involve pork.
This is a flawed ad hominem argument which does not touch upon the serious issue raised. When there is very little difference between two choices and yet, you choose one over the other, it is far fetched to say that your choice was not free but was predetermined or seriously influenced by something else. It is like saying when you flip a coin it is predetermined that it will be heads or tails.
Completely agree with your sentiment. We don’t have free will, as creatures our will is contingent upon God’s will.
Free will has nothing to do with pre-choice options; free will is: “are you being forced to read these posts and type counter posts? Or, are you willingly seeking to persuade us to think you know truth?”
My will, and my free will (the two are different), are about things that I MYSELF do, NOT about what others do to me nor what others do to give being to me.
As Mr. Bradskii has pointed out, there may be past experiences which influence your choices. And you may not be aware of this. IOW, free will is not just a matter of not being compelled to do something. I agree with Mr. Bradskii to a certain extent, but not to an extreme since I believe that there can be choices which are free and that there are cases where the unperceived influences on your choices are insignificant.
My wife won’t eat pho because it has mint in it. She was sick once after a bowl of it and the mint triggers that memory. She will, on the other hand, gladly drink a mojito or three. Which is stuffed with mint. It triggers happy memories of sun-kissed beaches.Bradskii:
There is very little difference between the two choices as they both involve pork.
How do you know that they are insignificant if they are unperceived? If your subconscious is making the choice before it passes that decision to the conscious ‘you’, then in the first instance you aren’t aware of that. So we can’t say if the influences are insignificant or not.John_Martin:
As Mr. Bradskii has pointed out, there may be past experiences which influence your choices. And you may not be aware of this. IOW, free will is not just a matter of not being compelled to do something. I agree with Mr. Bradskii to a certain extent, but not to an extreme since I believe that there can be choices which are free and that there are cases where the unperceived influences on your choices are insignificant.
Do you contend that the conscious you can never overrule the subconscious you?
This one example does not constitute a contradiction to my contention that there are some cases where it would be far fetched to claim that your choice was not free because there is very little difference between the two choices. I already gave one example with the pork dishes. Let me give another. You are buying flowers for your wife. There are five different bunches of flowers at the flower shop, but there really is no easily perceivable difference between any of the bunches. For all practical purposes they are identical bunches. You choose one particular bunch of flowers over the other four. Why and how did your subconscious make the choice before passing the decision onto the conscious you? What was the significant event in your past life as a toddler that impelled you to choose the bunch you did? Remember, each bunch of flowers is virtually identical to the other. As far as you can see, there is no real reason to choose one bunch over the other and it is a completely random choice. It is like flipping a coin or tossing a die.
Respectfully very confused with theses statements on Free Will, seems to speak differently then what is written in the Epistle or Letter of James do they not?
What is free will?..The gift of freedom, free will, to choose… but first to know…for our Heavenly Father left us not ignorant…Live by his Word…etc?If our Creator in all his infinite wisdom, glory… did not give us all the gift of…free will… then our choices whether they be right or wrong…our Creator, our Heavenly Father… would be held fully accountable and held responsible for our choices, would he not? Without the gift of his free will, we would not be held accountable right?
Actually you do have a lot of say in the circumstances you are born, but your choice in those circumstances are limited by your past karma. Often entire families reincarnate together so you will usually meet your parents and siblings in the next life - although the relationships will change - your mother in the last life could be your sister in the next.
However, this would be an example of a conscious choice that was made at some point, which later sunk into a permanent habit. Doesn’t dislodge the notion of ‘free will’, though…
You can still choose not to eat when hungry or not drink when thirsty; conversely, you can choose to eat or drink when your body’s giving you the “I’m full” signals.
It probably would have helped if you had framed up your example in that way. From your prior post, it sure seemed like you were merely asking “can we choose in a non-deterministic way?” …
Sure she does! She just goes along with her initial, memory-based impulses… she could choose to ignore them. (It’s just that it would be somewhat unpleasant to work through the remnants of the memory association…)
Respectfully toward…known as dietary laws…instruction, his word, his teaching for us to know and.given to us…to maintain good health?
What is written within the Bible, does it not give us knowledge, understanding, his teaching instructions, as guidelines, for the good of all?
“When we learn to conquer the wars within us, then we can give what is good, for we cannot give what we do not have first for ourselves”. Little St Therese…unquoteGift of free will, the precious gift of life was given in the purest Holy love to experience for ourselves, Love, peace, joy and to know the opposite to appreciate his Holy Love for us all, right?
This answer will deal with what you asked and what Georgias posted.Bradskii:
Do you contend that the conscious you can never overrule the subconscious you?
You would know it by its effects, wouldn’t you? Or are you saying that your wife has no idea why she avoids pho? Just by making the choice against it – even, putatively, in an unconscious way – she knows that she’s made a choice, and understands it consciously!
That just doesn’t hold up to reason. If a bowl of pho is set before me, and my reaction is “ugh! pho!”, then I know what my reaction is and what I’m choosing. If my wife makes the bowl of pho for me, though, and I want to honor the effort she put into it, I can clearly overrule my initial reaction and decide to take a taste.
Even if the decision-making process is deep in your subconscious, the decision itself is visible to you. Therefore, you can overrule what your subconscious has chosen.