What about 2012?

[Mannyfit75]

John Paul II may not have taken part in their false worship (which is a mortal sin against the first commandment), **but he encouraged **it. It was a scheduled even in his “prayer meeting”.

Cite your source. Where are you getting all this and don’t say I Googled it. I also like to see the words from Pope John Paul telling the pagans. “Go worship your gods.”

If you want you claim is true, I like to the evidence and source. Ideally, a quote from Pope John Paul II.

Considering that sins against the first commandment are, by nature, the most grave of all sins, what would we say if John Paul II invited abortion doctors to Rome, had an abortion scheduled, and provided them with a room to do it? That would be a mortal sin, and it is exactly what he did IN PUBLIC FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE at Assisi.

John Paul II would never invite abortion doctors. He is completely oppose to it.

Do you claim to know the heart of Pope John Paul II? Unless you are God himself, you can honestly say he committed a mortal sin.

However, you are a mere man, who are you to judge the Pope, the Successor of St. Peter?

And being the Pope, he could not be excused for ignorance, which might have excused those who actually committed the sin. Rather than teaching them the truth, he encouraged them to commit an objective mortal sin.

The Pope is a scholar and a theological. He knows what he is doing.

What he is doing is no different than a local Army Chaplain doing a prayer breakfast.

BTW, you can find the Assisi Apostacy on youtube. In it, you will see the arrival of the Witch Doctor being greete by John Paul II, and the Buddhist monks placing a statue of Budha on the Catholic altar and worshipping it. That is on the video.

You trust Youtube to spread your lies? Who grant you authority to be disobedient to the Church? I do not trust Catholics who think they are “traditionist” and made themselves theologians or pope. You have made yourself one by rebelling against the Pope.

You are like Korah who rebelled against Moses and Aaaron.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

In addition, this blog refutes the accusations against Pope John Paul, the Great.

socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/05/pope-john-paul-ii-and-koran-kissing.html

Read it and weep.

Weep is right. When you open the link the first thing you see if John Paul II kissing the Koran - the “holy book” of a false religion that blasphemes the Trinity and leads millions of souls to hell. For a Pope to do such a thing is indeed reason to weep.

But John Paul II never met a false religion that he didn’t have “deep and profound esteme” for. In fact, he had such a love for the false religion of Islam, that he actually prayed “May St. John the Baptist bless Islam”.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000321_wadi-al-kharrar_en.html

 

[Mannyfit75]

In addition to the Assisi incident, I like to quote the follow from the Blog which provided as a link to refute, Christus Rex.

This also is a gross distortion of what happened in the Assisi ecumenical conferences. Fr. Alfredo M. Morselli, in his defense of same, that drew heavily from St. Thomas Aquinas’ principles, noted:

[W]e can pose a more definite question: must an unbeliever (an unbeliever by way of pure negation) pray? I think the answer is “yes,” because, according to St. Thomas’s teaching, we know that religion is a part of Justice, and Justice is an obligation by natural law. Every man must be religious, because every man must be upright (iustus). Prayer is an act of religion (not an act of faith), so every man must pray. So we must say to an unbeliever: follow natural law; you must be prudent, temperate, strong, upright.

St. Thomas says:

Now the Divine law which is the law of grace, does not do away with human law (non tollit ius humanum) which is the law of natural reason. S. Th., II II, q. 10, a. 10 c.
How is it possible that God orders man to be religious, knowing that men (today the majority of humankind), although unbelievers “by way of pure negation,” performing this precept, will sin? If an unbeliever doesn’t pray, he sins (against natural law). If an unbeliever prays, he sins, because He doesn’t pray to the true God. This would be a trap!
Therefore, I conclude that invitation to unbelievers to pray, is not a formal participation in an act of false religion, but is a formal invitation to be religious, to follow natural law. The pope doesn’t says: “Pray to a false God,” but “Pray [as best you can].” Everything false in such act of religion, becomes an “indirect voluntary” (as the death of a child in case of removal of a cancerous uterus).

 

[Mannyfit75]

Catholic apologist Mark Shea noted the “traditionalist” myths about Assisi, too, in a paper that I uploaded to my site:

I’m having trouble figuring out what, exactly, the problem is with the whole Assisi thing.

Pope calls together a bunch of religions to agree on the need for peace. Blessed are the peacemakers, etc. I’m tracking with that.

Pope says no we’re not praying together, everybody go to your own corner and pray according to the dictates of your conscience. But let’s work together as we can to keep the world from going up in flames. Lumen Gentium and Unitatis Redintegratio teach this. Okay. I’m still tracking.

I’m not seeing an affirmation that “We’re all really saying the same thing.” Far from it, I see the same clear statement of Dominus Iesus and Lumen Gentium that in the Catholic faith alone the fullness of God’s revelation subsists. Same deal on the distinction between the baptized and unbaptized. I’m still tracking.

About half the people on the list are really, really angry about all this. I’m not tracking. I haven’t the time to read the whole thread. Could somebody summarize for me what the problem is? How is telling somebody at an interreligious gathering “Work with us where you can and go off and pray according to your conscience” (though the Catholic revelation is the fullness of the Truth) a craven capitulation to indifferentism, but telling somebody in your city they can have a mosque or a temple or a Lutheran Church or whatever a common sense acknowledgement of human conscience and freedom? It seems to me it’s all one or all the other. If it’s a wonderful testament to the Church’s anthropology that pagans are free to be pagans in a Catholic country, why is it a damning rebuke of the Church’s leaders that they apply exactly the same principle in a Catholic meeting? I don’t get it.

It seems to me that once the Church affirms the principle of religious liberty (as it should), it’s perfectly possible to hold a meeting like Assisi which, in essence, affirms what can be affirmed in common (like “Nuclear annihilation would be bad. Terrorists should really not blow up innocent people.”) and then tells the various participants “Go obey your conscience according to your religious tradition, just understand that we don’t affirm the truth of that tradition when it contradicts ours because our Tradition is the fullness of what God himself has revealed.” It appears to me that this is precisely what’s going on at Assisi. So I’m having trouble figuring out the problem. Do the critics of Assisi also think that Lumen Gentium and Unitatis Redintegratio were bad things?

Can somebody explain to me what I’m missing?

Well yes, the “traditionalist” critics do think that Vatican II had lots of “bad things,” but they want to play the game of equivocation: it contained no heresy, but it was (so we are told) deliberately “ambiguous.” They’ll say it is kosher out of one side of their mouth, and then say it would have been better if it had never occurred, out of the other. Go figure.

Alas, at length, Ryan stopped being disgusted and angry at John Paul the Great and was reduced to pity (gee, what a vast improvement):

In truth, I have to say that I have gained more of a soft spot to John Paul II, which is part of the reason I have refrained from writing “of infelicitous memory” as I used to after his name, and I have stopped writing anything about him so I can pray and discern whether or not he is in fact a saint. Let me go one further, at the risk of losing all my readers and becoming anathema to rad trads: I have been praying for God to change my heart on the subject if John Paul II is a saint and should be canonized.

In the end, I have made the following conclusion: John Paul II is more worthy of pity and prayer than of anger which I had for him generally when I first started blogging, but in the end he is not worthy of being raised to the altars. . . .

. . . he might do something rash, for example in trying to show solidarity with Muslims in Iraq who were being murdered every other day by US and British air strikes, he might do something rash and offensive like kiss the Qur’an. . . .

They had with them the Qur’an, and he thought by reverencing it he might show the Church’s solidarity with a people oppressed on the one hand by western bombing and on the other by a dictator in his palaces. So he kissed the Qur’an.

In such a context, my anger effaces, and is replaced by pity, pity for a man whose emotion boils over to the point where reason leaves him and he makes a rash action offensive to piety. . . . He didn’t stop and think, he just kissed the Qur’an…

 

[Mannyfit75]

I do not think you read the blog. You just come here to rant and complain about the Pope John Paul II, Pope Benedict XVI and Second Vatican Council. You like to foster disunity. Tell me are you doing the will of the Father, by denying Christ call that all Christians be one, or Christ desire that all mankind to be saved?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Weep is right. When you open the link the first thing you see if John Paul II kissing the Koran - the “holy book” of a false religion that blasphemes the Trinity and leads millions of souls to hell. For a Pope to do such a thing is indeed reason to weep.

But John Paul II never met a false religion that he didn’t have “deep and profound esteme” for. In fact, he had such a love for the false religion of Islam, that he actually prayed "May St. John the Baptist bless Islam".
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000321_wadi-al-kharrar_en.html

and you take the document out of context… a typical “traditionalist ploy.”

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

Cite your source. Where are you getting all this and don’t say I Googled it.

It is not denied by anyone. At John Paul II’s prayer meeting, a special room was given to each false religion. Some required a window so that the smoke from their “offering” could escape. The Jews - who HATE Jesus Christ, required that any and all statues of Jesus be removed, and that those which couldn’t be removed be covered. Of course, any request of an unbelieving Jew was granted so as not to offend them.

John Paul II would never invite abortion doctors. He is completely oppose to it.

You trust Youtube to spread your lies?

I didn’t get it from youtube. The news was everywhere when it happened; and, like I said, no one denied it. In fact, the usual suspects defended it. The youtube vidoe I was referring to actually shows it taking place. I found it to be worse watching it than reading about it.

But John Paul II is dead and burried. We have a new Pope now who is restoring the Church. It’s probably best to forget about the actions of John Paul II and look at the good that is taking place.

 

[ConservativeOne]

I’ve heard about this 2012 issue recently. Didn’t know where it came from…But whether it’s from Mayan calendars or whatever, we don’t know the day nor the hour. St. Malachy does say there will be one more Pope after the current one, while some try to dispute that maybe there are more popes in between…Go figure. I’m thinking it’s as the predictions are currently published. But it is a frightening thought considering how close it is - all the global warming issues that threaten us - the Third Fatima Secret, which to my knowledge has not been publicly revealed…Yet, I once heard that Pope John Paul II commented about the Secret saying, portions of the earth would be covered by water, asking why would we want to know more. (This may have been reported by a German newspaper.) No matter the year - our earthly lives - individually - have a deadline no matter what the earth’s deadline is. It’s a sobering thought.
God’s Plans are His alone to know.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

and you take the document out of context… a typical “traditionalist ploy.”

Out of context? What’s out of context. He prayed that John the Baptist would protect ISLAM. He didn’t just say the people who are deceived by the false religion of Islam. He prayed for him to protect Islam itself. And it is on the Vatican website.

If you think I took it out of context, please show me how the context changes the quote.

 

[Mannyfit75]

It is not denied by anyone. At John Paul II’s prayer meeting, a special room was given to each false religion. Some required a window so that the smoke from their “offering” could escape. The Jews - who HATE Jesus Christ, required that any and all statues of Jesus be removed, and that those which couldn’t be removed be covered. Of course, any request of an unbelieving Jew was granted so as not to offend them.

Do you generalized that all Jews hate Jesus because I not all them believe in doing that. They would not allow image of Jesus in the temple because they are Jews. If they were to accept Jesus Christ, they would be Christians and would not be bothered by image.

I would suggest you read up information about Hebrew Catholics, “Former Jews” who are now Catholic committed to Jesus Christ.

I didn’t get it from youtube. The news was everywhere when it happened; and, like I said, no one denied it. In fact, the usual suspects defended it. The youtube vidoe I was referring to actually shows it taking place. I found it to be worse watching it than reading about it.

But John Paul II is dead and burried. We have a new Pope now who is restoring the Church. It’s probably best to forget about the actions of John Paul II and look at the good that is taking place.

You got it from the news which is completely bias against Catholicism. I do not trust typical media that have bias against CC. It is better you get the news directly from Catholic media loyal to the Vatican.

 

[puzzleannie]

we made a lot of money complying with mandatory regulations to make our clients Y2K compliant about 10 years ago. I can only hope the same regulators pass some law about 2012 so we can start up the company and make some more big bucks making them 2012 compliant. would some of you theorists please tweak your predictions to show all the computers of the world with stop running on 1/1/12 and give us a break

 

[Mannyfit75]

Out of context? What’s out of context. He prayed that John the Baptist would protect ISLAM. He didn’t just say the people who are deceived by the false religion of Islam. He prayed for him to protect Islam itself. And it is on the Vatican website.

If you think I took it out of context, please show me how the context changes the quote.

You take it out of context, because Islam believes in a One God, which itself is a true statement. It is their believe in a one God that they will ultimately become converted. Read the entire text. The Catholic Church as a whole recognizes that there are three Abrahamic faith, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

It is a general agreement that Islam are decendents from Ismael. From this, they are properly called part of the Abrahamic faith.

and yes you did take it out of context.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

You got it from the news which is completely bias against Catholicism. I do not trust typical media that have bias against CC. It is better you get the news directly from Catholic media loyal to the Vatican.

No, it was all over the Catholic New. The secular news loved the event. I don’t get my Catholic news from secular sources. I know better than that.

Regarding your first comments, not, not all Jews hate Jesus. Only the unbelieving Jews, which are the ones I was referring to. It was they who requested that any sign of Jesus be removed.

 

[Christus_Rex_1]

Back to the O.P, and St.Malachi. I found the following on another message board. I have read what he is talking about, but I don’t have access to the actual document to quote it. I’ll just quote what he said on the other message board.

The thread on the message board is discussing the 7 ages of the Church, and where we currently fit in.

Should one go by the Ages of the Church theory, Fr. Rene Thibault, S.J. in his work, Les Mysterieuse Propheties des Papes (1949?) says that the Prophecy of St. Malachy is authentic but manipulated. He uses the verse and meter of the prophecy in which the last pope, the Glory of the Olive, currently Benedict XVI’s papacy will end in 2012 in which Peter the Roman is not a papacy but a sign of the end of an epoch(essentially an age) in the Church. If this is the case then I think it could merely be the transition between the 5th and 6th epochs of the Church. The 6th age will end when after a certain amount of time(probably short) after the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart there will be lukewarmness in the Church thereby ushering in the Seventh Age or Epoch which is brief and then the end shall come.

 

[Hislittlelady]

As for a bunch of pagans giving us predictions about the world coming to an end, people who never even heard of God, or if they did, they had no real knowledge of Him, I’d say ‘hogwash.’ Please read below as to the absolute truth of when the end will come, which we have no idea when, but our great God did give us warning signs, but to be interpreted very carefully. I use this portion of scripture as my guide as to when the end will come. We know not when, but as far as I can see, all the signs are slowly, one by one, beginning to appear. Jesus will surprise us in the twinkling of an eye.

Luke - Chapter 21

When he looked up he saw some wealthy people putting their offerings into the treasury 2 and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins. 3 He said, “I tell you truly, this poor widow put in more than all the rest; 4 for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood.” 5 2 While some people were speaking about how the temple was adorned with costly stones and votive offerings, he said, 6 “All that you see here–the days will come when there will not be left a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down**.” 7 Then they asked him, “Teacher, when will this happen? And what sign will there be when all these things are about to happen?”** 8 He answered, “See that you not be deceived, for many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and ‘The time has come.’ 3 Do not follow them! 9 When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end.” 10 Then he said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be powerful earthquakes, famines, and plagues from place to place; and awesome sights and mighty signs will come from the sky. 12 "Before all this happens, 4 however, they will seize and persecute you, they will hand you over to the synagogues and to prisons, and they will have you led before kings and governors because of my name. 13 It will lead to your giving testimony. 14 Remember, you are not to prepare your defense beforehand, 15 for I myself shall give you a wisdom in speaking 5 that all your adversaries will be powerless to resist or refute. 16 You will even be handed over by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends, and they will put some of you to death.
17 You will be hated by all because of my name, 18 but not a hair on your head will be destroyed. 19 By your perseverance you will secure your lives. 20 6 "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, know that its desolation is at hand. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains. Let those within the city escape from it, and let those in the countryside not enter the city,
22 for these days are the time of punishment when all the scriptures are fulfilled. 23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for a terrible calamity will come upon the earth and a wrathful judgment upon this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken as captives to all the Gentiles; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles 7 are fulfilled. 25 “There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves. 26 People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens 8 will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand.” 29 He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees. 30 When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near;
31 in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. 34 “Beware that your hearts do not become drowsy from carousing and drunkenness and the anxieties of daily life, and that day catch you by surprise 35 like a trap. For that day will assault everyone who lives on the face of the earth. 36 Be vigilant at all times and pray that you have the strength to escape the tribulations that are imminent and to stand before the Son of Man.” 37 During the day, Jesus was teaching in the temple area, but at night he would leave and stay at the place called the Mount of Olives. 38 And all the people would get up early each morning to listen to him in the temple area.

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/index.htm

 

[mangy_dog]

Hey everyone I’m Eva, and new member of this website. I want information on 2012. Do Catholics believe this is the End of Days? I am very interested on this topic.

2012; Mayan calendar; Nostradamus; Edgar Cayce…non of that is important nor pertinent to our Catholicism, to our hope, to our life of prayer and life of the spirit.

There are catholic prophecies, personal revelations, given to certain saints. But even these are not meant to induce panic or desparation - but hope and the desire to persevere in a life of the spirit and a life of prayer.

Do the basic catholic things really, really well:

• Pray the Rosary everyday.
• Confession and Communion weekly.
  -Wear and pray your Sacramentals, never leave home without them.
  -Institue the use of Holy Water in your home.
  -Love and serve the Lord and be a witness onto others.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Mannyfit75]

No, it was all over the Catholic New. The secular news loved the event. I don’t get my Catholic news from secular sources. I know better than that.

Regarding your first comments, not, not all Jews hate Jesus. Only the unbelieving Jews, which are the ones I was referring to. It was they who requested that any sign of Jesus be removed.

How bias of you to accused all Jews hate Jesus. The first converts were Jews.

 

[Mayu]

There have been many end of times prophecies since the world began.

look just within the last several years alone…

Y2K was when computers would go haywire, missles would be launched sending us into WWIII, supervolcanoes would blow and an astroid would hit the earth according to the “bible code”.

when nothing happened, they realized… oh wait… the millenium started with year 1… so the millennium really doesn’t change till 2001. that’s the REAL Y2K.

when nothing happened it became 6/6/06, the mark of the devil.

when nothing happened I believe they threw around 7/7/07… however there was absolutely NO spark on that and they dropped it.

When people started talking about the ending of the Mayan calendar in 2012, they moved onto 2012.

They started talking about how Nostradamus predicted 2012

here’s the problem with those two things.

The mayans didn’t believe in “and end” they believed in the ending of one cycle only to enter into another. So when the long count ends on 2012, it rolls over into a new cycle, starting at 0… kind of how our calendar ends december 31st, and a new one starts january the following year.

In fact, those who say the Mayans predicted the end of the world coming 2012 are putting words into their mouths. They didn’t really predict anything except a change of cycles. They never used the terminology dooms day or end of times, or end of the world. They never mentioned the end of anything.

As for Nostradamus… if you believe in those things which I really don’t… in a letter to his son, he said his predictions did not go farther than 3797 which means he believes that date to be the end of time. so almost 1700 years past the supposed 2012 prediction.

he never mentions nor talks about 2012. That is all made up… kind of how they made up that he predicted 9/11 and Y2K.

Only God knows when the end will come. Jesus knows he will one day return for his followers… but he doesn’t know when… only God knows when that will be.

So no one can predict whether mystically or scientifically the exact date and time our world end. All of this is just sensationalism for ratings.

that is why we must prepare ourselves. The end may not come in our lifetime or our children’s lifetime, or our grandkids lifetime. it may not even come for several thousand lifetimes…

however… we should all be trying to live every day we do have on this earth, as good as we can to be worthy of God’s love and earn our place in heaven for when our time does come, even if that’s when we’re 106 years old.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Back in 1976 when Christ came into my life, and I had joined up with two Charismatic Prayer groups, they were advocating the book, “There’s A New World Coming by Hal Lindsey.” According to him, the world should’ve ended by 1998.

I asked a priest friend of mine if he would read the book and comment on it.

Basically, Lindsey was a person who knew the Bible well enough to fool people, especially Catholics, who didn’t have much knowledge on the Book of Revelation.

My friend provided Catholic teaching on the Scripture verses Lindsey was using and of course, Lindsey was wrong, the Church was right.

Anyway, its best not to concern yourself with such things. We don’t know the day or hour of our own deaths, never mind when the end of the world will come.

The bottom line is, trust in God at all times.

Jim

 

[Mayu]

Back in 1976 when Christ came into my life, and I had joined up with two Charismatic Prayer groups, they were advocating the book, “There’s A New World Coming by Hal Lindsey.” According to him, the world should’ve ended by 1998.

I wonder if that’s what my late grandmother on my dad’s side followed. I remember growing up she’d tell all of us the world was coming to an end. I can’t remember if it was in 1998 or if she said it was earlier in the 90’s. but that name, Hal Lindsey, sounds familiar.