What about dress code

[Onegin]

The most hateful and judgmental people I have ever met are the self-proclaimed tolerant ones. They want everyone else to tolerate whatever they wear (say, do, etc.) but as soon as they encounter someone who does have higher standards of dress or behavior they screech “legalism”, “pharisee”, “taliban”, etc. These are horrifically nasty comments and I have heard and read comments like that and far worse. When I did wear jeans and t-shirts almost exclusively (except at work where I wore camouflage utilities), not a single person said one nasty thing to me about my clothes for 20 years. When I started taking my faith more seriously and dress more conservatively I faced negative comments purely about my type of clothing (and the negative comments were always from women.) What we wear is a reflection of who we are since we as adults choose what we buy and wear (most of the time). The most conformist people of all are the ones who dress just like every teenager at the mall and think “they are so different”.

By way of anecdotal evidence, the weather is heating up here in England and as it was a fairly hot and sunny day, a good percentage of the female parishioners showed up very scantily clad. Tank tops, embarrassingly short skirts and tight, see-through clothing was the norm. Frankly, it was disruptive but you can’t really blame the parishioners themselves as the Priests would never dare address the issue in any way.

That’s where this so-called virtue of tolerance has gotten us today. It means that those who want to worship Christ must endure all sorts of atrocities in order that the ignorance of the uneducated will not be offended. In my own opinion, this is one of the worst failings of modern Catholicism today.

There should be no excuse for dressing immodestly in any Catholic parish. Priests need to address this issue. Modesty should be the bare minimum and after that, the issue of what is proper and decent dress (rather than just simply modest) comes next.

 

[Lycorth]

By way of anecdotal evidence, the weather is heating up here in England and as it was a fairly hot and sunny day, a good percentage of the female parishioners showed up very scantily clad. Tank tops, embarrassingly short skirts and tight, see-through clothing was the norm. Frankly, it was disruptive but you can’t really blame the parishioners themselves as the Priests would never dare address the issue in any way.

That’s where this so-called virtue of tolerance has gotten us today. It means that those who want to worship Christ must endure all sorts of atrocities in order that the ignorance of the uneducated will not be offended. In my own opinion, this is one of the worst failings of modern Catholicism today.

There should be no excuse for dressing immodestly in any Catholic parish. Priests need to address this issue. Modesty should be the bare minimum and after that, the issue of what is proper and decent dress (rather than just simply modest) comes next.

Amen

And indeed, the so-called “tolerant” and “non-conformist” are just the opposite of what they claim to be. The moment you believe in standards apart from “it if feels good, it must be good” is the moment you are practically crucified.

Tolerance is the virtue of a man who believes in nothing. Chesterton was right.

 

[mick321]

Amen

And indeed, the so-called “tolerant” and “non-conformist” are just the opposite of what they claim to be. The moment you believe in standards apart from “it if feels good, it must be good” is the moment you are practically crucified.

Tolerance is the virtue of a man who believes in nothing. Chesterton was right.

Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.

 

[Lycorth]

Say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.

I must be missing something - who brought up National Socialism?

 

[Miserys_Fence]

jeans are mens dress so I think they are disrepectful ask St Pio.

Jeans are the “dress” of anyone who works outdoors and/or physical labor. And I doubt any man would be caught dead wearing women’s jeans.

Miz

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I haven’t shot myself in the foot. There is no fine line and rather a clear difference.

Fine line == Difference.

Loyalty and blind faith are two different things. You on the other hand are only advocating the latter under the guise of the former. You ain’t fooling anybody.

How are we being “dolts” by insisting that there are standards of decency to follow?

I clearly value the reputation of the Church, as well as understand the dignity that ought to be shown to the Almighty. What about you?

Because such standards are arbitrary and to insist on blind obedience to ones that have already phased out is just the first step on the path the Taliban took (small step it may be). I find it hard to believe you value the Church’s reputation in that regard when you say things such as “rank and file soldiers” and “error of encouraging modernism in the Church”.

 

[MarysGirls]

what is wrong w/ jeans??

if a person works all day & goes to Mass @ night, he or she may not have time to change clothes…

i say the only thing tht should be discouraged is that which causes the mind to think of erotic stuff…

jeans are not very erotic… (uh… most of them anyhow…)

Nothing’s wrong with jeans, but there is something wrong with not giving JESUS the best you’ve got.
As for jeans not being erotic… you haven’t seen the jeans at my parish. The women’s are too tight; the men’s are too loose… both lead to seeing what one would much rather not see while trying to pray.
I think dress for Mass should be modest and something nice. If you can’t afford something nice, JESUS would rather you come as you are than not come at all.

 

[jimpres]

Jesus gave his life for us. We should give him the best we have which still does measure up to what he gave for us.

 

[Lycorth]

Fine line == Difference.

Loyalty and blind faith are two different things. You on the other hand are only advocating the latter under the guise of the former. You ain’t fooling anybody.

I’m not trying to fool anyone, just calling a spade a spade and telling the truth about clothing and decency.

Your cultural relativism is what fools no one. Been there, done that, grew up, moved on.

Because such standards are arbitrary and to insist on blind obedience to ones that have already phased out is just the first step on the path the Taliban took (small step it may be). I find it hard to believe you value the Church’s reputation in that regard when you say things such as “rank and file soldiers” and “error of encouraging modernism in the Church”.

There is no blind obedience being advocated here, despite what you think. I value the Church’s reputation more than you because you care about how the Church’s enemies view her, whereas I know that, as Saint Pius X said and is quoted in my signature, the true friends of the people are men of *tradition, *men of the efficacious cultural practices that helped to hone an entire civilization and make it a fitting standard-bearer for the Lord’s Church.

The Church has a problem with modernism whether or not you choose to recognize it, “rank and file soldiers” is a metaphor for the laity and therefore should not offend you at all, and you really need to learn that faith requires loyalty. Also, citing the Taliban doesn’t make your argument cogent. Having standards is a good thing.

 

[distracted]

The most hateful and judgmental people I have ever met are the self-proclaimed tolerant ones. They want everyone else to tolerate whatever they wear (say, do, etc.) but as soon as they encounter someone who does have higher standards of dress or behavior they screech “legalism”, “pharisee”, “taliban”, etc. These are horrifically nasty comments and I have heard and read comments like that and far worse. When I did wear jeans and t-shirts almost exclusively (except at work where I wore camouflage utilities), not a single person said one nasty thing to me about my clothes for 20 years. When I started taking my faith more seriously and dress more conservatively I faced negative comments purely about my type of clothing (and the negative comments were always from women.) What we wear is a reflection of who we are since we as adults choose what we buy and wear (most of the time). The most conformist people of all are the ones who dress just like every teenager at the mall and think “they are so different”.

i agree…

but Jesus did say that when you follow Him you will be “hated by all”

you haven’t said you are hated… but sounds like some are persecuting you… .and women are really “hateful” toward one another… Ok, not all, but a LOT of them… in my world…

i think a lot of them see other women as “competetion”

if they only knew how little i desire ANY man, much less theirs…

but anyhow…

i sa w this young woman in Church some time ago who looked like a cocktail waitress… back-less slinkly black thng…

geeze… i had been thinking of God and Heaven and Jesus and all that … until she walked in…

went back to doing so once i got over it…

 

[Redratfish]

Jesus gave his life for us. We should give him the best we have which still does measure up to what he gave for us.

According to the Bible God didn’t give us clothes. We made those after The Fall. I personally believe in Theistic evolution, so it doesn’t bother me.

Why would God care what we look like? According to Jesus, we should wear only a single tunic, and sandals for the journey… Or is that irreverent compared to a suit and tie?

IMO dress nice, but a suit and tie is not necessary. Don’t wear tight, or loose jeans, but a pair of nice jeans do fine. God does not care how we look, he made us in his image. He does care about what is on our hearts. You can look like a slob, but Jesus will still accept you (Luke 7:36-48)

 

[jfmarm81]

I only read a few posts, so I apologize if any of this has been said before. I don’t really pay much attention to what people are wearing at Church. I think it’s more important that they are there. In my parish, there are those that are wearing jeans, sometimes a T-shirt and sneakers, but they are in deep prayer. Then there are those who are the elite of the parish, in suits and ties, politicking before Mass, and on their Iphones during the homily. So which of these groups is showing reverence?? I mean, the elite are wearing suits and ties…and jeans are bad, right??
These arguments are silly. We don’t know everyone else’s story. Maybe jeans are all they have. I wear jeans and pray when I’m at Church. I thought that being there praying to God was what’s important. We go through debates like this, and before you know it, we’ll be discussing class statuses. What kind of people should be allowed to go to Church??
Jesus associated himself with all kinds of people, even those that were poor. So if someone can’t afford a nice pair of pants, should they not be allowed in Church??
I’m not saying that mini-skirts and short shorts should be the norm. But what is wrong with jeans??

 

[Lycorth]

I only read a few posts, so I apologize if any of this has been said before. I don’t really pay much attention to what people are wearing at Church. I think it’s more important that they are there. In my parish, there are those that are wearing jeans, sometimes a T-shirt and sneakers, but they are in deep prayer. Then there are those who are the elite of the parish, in suits and ties, politicking before Mass, and on their Iphones during the homily. So which of these groups is showing reverence?? I mean, the elite are wearing suits and ties…and jeans are bad, right??
These arguments are silly. We don’t know everyone else’s story. Maybe jeans are all they have. I wear jeans and pray when I’m at Church. I thought that being there praying to God was what’s important. We go through debates like this, and before you know it, we’ll be discussing class statuses. What kind of people should be allowed to go to Church??
Jesus associated himself with all kinds of people, even those that were poor. So if someone can’t afford a nice pair of pants, should they not be allowed in Church??
I’m not saying that mini-skirts and short shorts should be the norm. But what is wrong with jeans??

That’s the danger with reading only a few posts - you miss a lot.

It’s been all covered before; those of us who support traditional and reasonable standards of dress all know that there are folks who can’t afford better than jeans and a t-shirt and exceptions to the rule are to be expected.

 

[jfmarm81]

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That’s the danger with reading only a few posts - you miss a lot.

It’s been all covered before; those of us who support traditional and reasonable standards of dress all know that there are folks who can’t afford better than jeans and a t-shirt and exceptions to the rule are to be expected.

See, I get that, but what about thoise that just dress up to look nice but are just at Church to ‘show up’? Are they better than the person wearing jeans that is truely at Church to pray and recieve Communion?? Regardless of what someone can afford, isn’t the point of Mass to be with God, Jesus, and His other followers?? To share at His table?? Sometimes we have to stop and think, if Jesus came down tomorrow, would He reject those that came to His table, and shared with Him love in jeans?? I would think not…

 

[Springkeeper]

“The bottom line is that I go through the trouble out of respect for God and the other worshipers. Sometimes I’ll hear people say, “God doesn’t care what I wear.” Or, “God only cares that I come.” True enough. But faith and religion, in my view, is also about my response to God. God is not “lucky” that I showed up. I’m privileged to be invited. And the time and effort I put into bringing my family to His home freshly scrubbed, combed, and neatly dressed is part of my gift to Him. My God died on the cross for me. Dressing up to worship Him is the least I can do.”
parentdish.com/2010/06/09/have-we-become-too-casual-why-i-dress-my-kids-up-for-church/

 

[Lycorth]

See, I get that, but what about thoise that just dress up to look nice but are just at Church to ‘show up’? Are they better than the person wearing jeans that is truely at Church to pray and recieve Communion?? Regardless of what someone can afford, isn’t the point of Mass to be with God, Jesus, and His other followers?? To share at His table?? Sometimes we have to stop and think, if Jesus came down tomorrow, would He reject those that came to His table, and shared with Him love in jeans?? I would think not…

Sure, Jesus wouldn’t ever reject anyone just because they wore common clothes, but it’s about more than that.

Springkeeper put it nicely just above - we’re privileged to be there in His presence. God isn’t “lucky” that we are there. So, if that’s true, then why not go the extra mile and dress nicely for Him?

The point of Mass is to worship the Lord and receive Him in the Eucharist. Sure, we can do that regardless of dress, but again, why not treat it as a special event? No one is automatically “better” than anyone else because of what they wear, but we usually dress ourselves according to what is in our hearts. Usually, one does not see serious and reverent Catholics just turning up in old jeans and ratty t-shirts, but they make the extra effort to put on something nice for the Lord - even if it is just a nice pair of jeans.

I suppose the old comparison is true - if you wouldn’t wear it to meet a dignitary or a celebrity or someone else whom you respected, why would you do so for Mass?

 

[jfmarm81]

Sure, Jesus wouldn’t ever reject anyone just because they wore common clothes, but it’s about more than that.

Springkeeper put it nicely just above - we’re privileged to be there in His presence. God isn’t “lucky” that we are there. So, if that’s true, then why not go the extra mile and dress nicely for Him?

The point of Mass is to worship the Lord and receive Him in the Eucharist. Sure, we can do that regardless of dress, but again, why not treat it as a special event? No one is automatically “better” than anyone else because of what they wear, but we usually dress ourselves according to what is in our hearts. Usually, one does not see serious and reverent Catholics just turning up in old jeans and ratty t-shirts, but they make the extra effort to put on something nice for the Lord - even if it is just a nice pair of jeans.

I suppose the old comparison is true - if you wouldn’t wear it to meet a dignitary or a celebrity or someone else whom you respected, why would you do so for Mass?

That is a better way of putting it- I would never show up in Church with old jeans and a T-shirt. But I do wear a nice pair of jeans to Church. But that’s just who I am. I wear jeans to weddings and funerals. That is who I am. Those that know me and see me at those events, as well as Church, are not offended and know that I mean no disrespect. I feel that God also knows I mean no disrespect. To me, the only opinions that matter are God’s, my family’s, and my close friends’…I don’t try to impress those I don’t know. Again, that’s just me. I think it’s great for those that go the extra mile to look nice. I feel that I too look nice…

 

[Lycorth]

That is a better way of putting it- I would never show up in Church with old jeans and a T-shirt. But I do wear a nice pair of jeans to Church. But that’s just who I am. I wear jeans to weddings and funerals. That is who I am. Those that know me and see me at those events, as well as Church, are not offended and know that I mean no disrespect. I feel that God also knows I mean no disrespect. To me, the only opinions that matter are God’s, my family’s, and my close friends’…I don’t try to impress those I don’t know. Again, that’s just me. I think it’s great for those that go the extra mile to look nice. I feel that I too look nice…

I’ll go out on a limb and agree that you probably do. You sound like you put effort and care into your dress and bearing, which we all should do.

The only other thing, something I forgot to mention, is that we are all our brothers’ keepers - that is another reason dressing a certain way is important. We send out subtle cues to others when we dress a certain way; there might be lax Catholics in church with us who, if they see folks in common clothes, they might not feel any inspiration to get serious with their entire spiritual lives (not just how they dress for Mass). A certain standard of dress can, and in all likelihood does, have a great impact on the spiritual lives of our fellow Catholics, so setting a good example may be important in ways we don’t realize.

Currently, we’re not well-off at all. No jobs, no unemployment left to collect, only the charity of our family to rely on. All my wife normally has are a nice pair of jeans to wear to Mass, but she does that, and finds a nice blouse to go with it. She looks much more appropriate than a lot of folks that I can’t help but notice at Mass; of course, we cannot judge fully because we do not know what predicaments others may or may not be in, but exceptions aside, putting our best foot forward in Mass is important, and respectful.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

After two years in the LDS church and wearing suits and ties, I’ve been a little surprised to see men in shorts at the Catholic Mass’s I’ve been going to. After seeing guys in shorts and women in Harley Davidson shirts I figured clean jeans and a nice clean shirt is OK. I never wear T-shirts tho. Always a button up shirt or polo shirt. People showing up to Mass is the important thing, no matter what they wear. No doubt there are people who wear shorts or t-shirts to Mass who are far more Christian than I am.

 

[atassina]

The Popes thought it important enough to write a dress code into the Code of Canon law. It does not include jeans or t-shirts. The fact that casual clothes (minus coat and tie) are tolerated at Mass is a general symptom of the laxity of the clergy in teaching and inforcing Canon Law.

And please, spare us the examples of homeless folks. They are exempt.

Hey! Quote the mysterious canon.