You are correct that Maccabees causes problems. For instance, the sin committed was clearly idolatry. The soldiers died with what has been always taught was a mortal sin, and they died with it unconfessed, unrepented indeed they were right in the middle of committing their mortal sin.
There is just no way either in Catholic Tradition or Scripture for those soldiers to be in any state other than eternally condemned. If such a sin can be purged, then the Universalists are correct, everyone will be saved, you can even worship false gods and will be saved. Something that is contrary to scripture and Tradition.
JJ
While the sin of the soldiers was apparent, the Bible doesn’t say whether it was mortal or venial, nor the results of Judas’ prayer for their souls.
It does however, note that “
It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins,…”
Judas Maccabeus (who was not only there, but also likely better versed in Jewish law than any of us), didn’t presume to judge them himself, instead hoping & praying that God would have mercy on their souls.
Which brings up starfish’s earlier question:
But what of praying for the dead? Once you are dead, that is it! It’s too late, afterward.
God is outside of time. All times are “now” to Him. Thus, not only does He know of our prayers before we even utter them, He hears & knows of them at the same time as the practical judgment of a person occurs.
When my grandfather stood before God after he died on Dec. 14, God knew of my prayers for him that I offered the next day, because to God, both days were/are NOW.
I still do not believe in Purgatory. Jesus paid the price for us. When we die, if we have accepted Jesus as our Savior and we ARE born again, Heaven awaits us.
Are you assuming that we are
forgiven in purgatory, or that it is redemptive? This is an incorrect conclusion that is often made, even by Catholics.
Yes, Heaven awaits God’s children when we die.
However, it is important to note 2 things.
The first is that Scripture states that, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven. (Rev. 21:27)
The second is that while, yes, Jesus’ sacrifice
is complete, & His work is
more than sufficient for our redemption, this redemptive work still needs to be applied to us.
“
Repent & be baptized for the forgiveness or your sins” (Acts 2:38) indeed. Forgiveness & sanctification are two different things.
Sanctification is not complete once we “accept Jesus”, or once we are “baptized”, or at any altar call we respond to, or even once we die. It is a process that is applied throughout our lives through the grace we receive from God, especially in the sacraments, but is still not complete at our deaths.
Others have shown scripture passages which note that we are made perfect after death. For this to even be possible, we cannot already be perfect.
Scripture emphatically supports, even without Maccabees, an intermediate state, between our physical deaths & our entrance into heaven, in which we are finally purified & our sanctification is made complete.
This intermediate state is what the Catholic Church calls “purgatory.”
God Bless,
Chris
