What About Mormons?

[majick275]

(continued)

1. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

The LDS church has changed it’s organization more than once. I would point out that history gives us no indication that early christians EVER had a church structure similar to the LDS church.

1. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

what Christians don’t?

1. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

I take issue with this. The LDS church pretty much ignores the Bible as hopelessly corrupt and frequently even ignores the BoM in favor of the D&C and “moderrn prophecy”.

1. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

Okay, what Christians don’t? (guess it depends on how you define “reveal”)

1. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

kind of the tip of the racist iceberg here. completely fabricated by Joseph Smith.

1. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

sounds good but not very practical and certainly not reflected in actual practice by LDS today. Obviously there will be cases where worship conflicts with the law. Utah is a good example of how this has been dealt with by LDS.

12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

well this certainly wasn’t the case during the times of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, etc.

1. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

sounds great… but what about “lying for the lord”? blood atonement? polygamy? I don’t see much benevolence or virtue there. Chastity, truth, honesty? not so much.

Most of that sounds very agreeable to me, and I think it must sound fairly good to you, too. A lot of it is the same as Catholicism. I can’t say I know for sure about the whole Zion on the American continent thing, but I am not yet willing to rule it out, either. This is a process of discernment to me.

Good luck with your discernment but I think that until/unless you fully accept the Bible it will be difficult for you.

 

[Brad_Haas]

“Meaningless and an empty promise”, to seek an answer from God? I guess the words of James were empty and meaningless as well when he counselled “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.”(James 1:5)

The following verses should not be neglected either: “But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. For that person must not suppose that a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways, will receive anything from the Lord.” This promise in James is not addressed to someone who decides to base his entire life of faith on what he perceives to be an answer to his prayer. It’s addressed to someone who already has the faith and needs wisdom to understand it or to act rightly in his life.

Wasn’t it Jesus who said that we must be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect? How esle can we do that than to become divine like the Father?

Something is perfect when it is what it is, fully and without admixture of anything else. For created things, this means being what they were meant to be. Humans are imperfect when they haven’t reached complete union with God; i.e. when there is some admixture of sin in their life or the lack of some good attribute. Jesus wants us to reach that point (also note that the parallel to this verse in another Gospel - Luke, if I remember right - has Jesus saying “Be merciful, as your Father in heaven is merciful.”).

God is perfect by default because He’s truly self-existent - He defines what is good for everything else because He made everything else. There is nothing in Him that is not Him, and everything He has, He has infinitely. For Him to be perfect and for us to be perfect mean very different things, just as the things a bicycle needs to do and have to be perfect are different from the things an apple needs to do and have to be perfect. We can both be said to be perfect in the same breath, but we are different kinds of beings.

Of course, Mormonism does deny that we are different types of beings, but that’s another topic. Hopefully this shows how we can be perfect as God is perfect. (And by the way: yes, as some have pointed out, it is God alone who perfects us.)

 

[valient_Lucy]

I don’t know, Catholics. It just seems to me that the Mormons have it going on. I mean, doesn’t it make sense to you that Christ would have wanted to make his Gospel available to the people on the American continent too?

Why JUST the American continent? Why would Jesus ignore the subSaharan continent? Why not go to China and far east Asia? Why not go to Australia to teach the Aborigines? Why did the Americas deserve to get special treatment?

It just seems that Catholicism is so corrupt, and that the Church pretty much fell apart without Jesus around. I find it hard to believe that you’ll honestly deny the good points made by Mormonism.

If the Church fell apart after Jesus Ascended into heaven, why bother with Jesus, or God, at all? Jesus promised that “the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church” and “The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth.” If the Church became Apostate and irredeemably corrupt, then Jesus is a liar, or complely incapable of fulfilling His promises. If God is so incapable of preserving the Church, and needed to start all over again from scratch, He’s a pretty pitiful excuse for a God, and should probably let someone else do the job.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Well, folks:

I know the Mormons believe humans can attain divinity. I don’t have much of a problem with it. In fact, it seems reasonable to me. Once again: “You must become perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Those are the words of Jesus. How can one become perfect as the Father is perfect without becoming divine? I’m not sure I can see any other way of fulfilling that command.

I’m intrigued by the fact that you all have such strong opinions against the Latter-Day Saints, but I would like to know why. Explain to me in detail, especially those of you who have been in the Mormon Church, or have family who are.

It seems to me, also, that for God’s creation to become divine in itself only exalts and glorifies God all the more. No?

To be honest, my strong opinions of Mormonism come from an impending marriage of a friend of mine. I have two friends who are Mormons; one was born Mormon, the other converted from Catholicism. They are getting married soon, and they want to be married at the Mormon Temple, so that they can be married for all eternity.
Here’s the thing. Non-Mormons are not allowed in the Temple, even for a wedding. As a result, the convert’s family will not be allowed to attend the wedding. He had to tell his own parents that they were not allowed to attend his wedding, and that the Church could not make any exception for them. They were crushed.
So much for “Mormon family values.”

 

[TimOliv]

I don’t know, Catholics. It just seems to me that the Mormons have it going on. I mean, doesn’t it make sense to you that Christ would have wanted to make his Gospel available to the people on the American continent too? And seriously, isn’t divinity the only worthy goal to which we should aspire? Wasn’t it Jesus who said that we must be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect? How esle can we do that than to become divine like the Father?

It just seems that Catholicism is so corrupt, and that the Church pretty much fell apart without Jesus around. I find it hard to believe that you’ll honestly deny the good points made by Mormonism.

I’m not a Mormon myself. I’m kinda “between religions” right now, after a bad experience with the Catholic Church, and then a brief stint in a local church called the “Reformed Norse Christian Assembly,” I am considering the Mormons. What do you guys all think?

What exactly goes on in the Reformed Norse Christian Assembly?

 

[Sweeney]

OK… if Jesus came back to America after He was crucified, and gave them the “real” Christian religion, does that mean that Jesus started the Masons, since the Mormon Temple ceremonies, signs, words and handshakes are the same as the Masons’ ?

And why did Jesus let the gold plates containing all this be buried in a jerkwater village like Palmyra, NY (my Wife and I are from Western NY) ? I mean, you’d think Jesus would have come back somewhere major, like New York City, Chicago, or L.A., wouldn’t you, instead of Wayne County, NY?

 

[frnate]

I don’t know, Catholics. It just seems to me that the Mormons have it going on. I’m not a Mormon myself. I’m kinda “between religions” right now…

Hey Bill,

Glad you’re looking! I believe the best site on the WWW for an honest, loving look at the LDS and how their doctrines are not compatible with true Christianity, regardless of one’s denominational leanings, can be found at:

truthinlovetomormons.com/site_map.htm

And don’t mind the “nattering naybobs of negativism” who may have responded to you in a somewhat un-charitable fashion. There are those of us here who, believe it or not, truly wish that all seekers like you will come to hold the catholic faith as your own, despite the apparent corruptness of some of the other humans in the institution that is the Catholic Church. A corruptedness which, when honestly assessed, is shared by all still bound by this flesh.

Peace,
+Nathan

 

[tundramom]

another really good site is www.irr.org

in Christ
Steph

 

[az_4_faith]

A few years back, I attended a talk by Scott Hahn at a local parish. After an inspirational hour or so, he opened the floor up to random questions. The parish is located in the heart of Mormon country in Arizona. Someone asked him what his thoughts were on the Mormon Church since he was in one of it’s most populous counties. His answer was deafening. He smiled, looked at the floor, looked up and said “Ah, the Mormon Church. Well, you’ve got to give the devil his due . . .” and he went on to explain that . . . you see, Satan hates the Catholic Church so much that he has tried to copy it, present a cheap imitation of the Catholic Church in the Mormon Church. Just look at it - it’s an imitation of Catholic hierarchy, the priesthood, the bishops, the sacraments, the social structure, family centered, etc - the parallels are amazing. Satan tries to draw good folks away from the Catholic Church, the True Church by imitating Her. But the Mormon Church will never be complete, only a false imitation. In the same way that the Evil One lied to Adam and Eve using near-truths (they could be like God if they ate the fruit, that God was holding out on them, hmm, sounds a little like the Mormon aspiration to be divine!) the Evil One lies to Mormons by presenting something that looks really good, but is filled with lies. Unfortunately, so many GOOD people are being duped by him. And believe me, I have great friends who are Mormons, but boy, oh boy, they are as rock solid in their faith as many devout Catholics I know. The Evil One knows his stuff. But I trust that Jesus’ mercy will overshadow Satan’s lies when it comes to the final judgment of these good folk’s souls.

Keep the Faith!

 

[christianley]

A few years back, I attended a talk by Scott Hahn at a local parish. After an inspirational hour or so, he opened the floor up to random questions. The parish is located in the heart of Mormon country in Arizona. Someone asked him what his thoughts were on the Mormon Church since he was in one of it’s most populous counties. His answer was deafening. He smiled, looked at the floor, looked up and said “Ah, the Mormon Church. Well, you’ve got to give the devil his due . . .” and he went on to explain that . . . you see, Satan hates the Catholic Church so much that he has tried to copy it, present a cheap imitation of the Catholic Church in the Mormon Church. Just look at it - it’s an imitation of Catholic hierarchy, the priesthood, the bishops, the sacraments, the social structure, family centered, etc - the parallels are amazing. Satan tries to draw good folks away from the Catholic Church, the True Church by imitating Her. But the Mormon Church will never be complete, only a false imitation. In the same way that the Evil One lied to Adam and Eve using near-truths (they could be like God if they ate the fruit, that God was holding out on them, hmm, sounds a little like the Mormon aspiration to be divine!) the Evil One lies to Mormons by presenting something that looks really good, but is filled with lies. Unfortunately, so many GOOD people are being duped by him. And believe me, I have great friends who are Mormons, but boy, oh boy, they are as rock solid in their faith as many devout Catholics I know. The Evil One knows his stuff. But I trust that Jesus’ mercy will overshadow Satan’s lies when it comes to the final judgment of these good folk’s souls.

Keep the Faith!

The more likely reason Mormonism seems so much like the Catholic Church is that early Mormons tried to replicate what they saw in the New Testament. It shouldn’t surprise us at all that Mormons would come up with a church very much like Catholicism when they tried to follow the New Testament. I wouldn’t blame it on Satan. Joseph Smith and his followers had very little contact with real Catholicism in Western New York. Their experience was with Baptists and Methodists. Mormonism is perhaps a testimony that when one really looks closely at the New Testament they will come up with something very much like Catholicism.

 

[Ahimsa]

The more likely reason Mormonism seems so much like the Catholic Church is that early Mormons tried to replicate what they saw in the New Testament. It shouldn’t surprise us at all that Mormons would come up with a church very much like Catholicism when they tried to follow the New Testament. I wouldn’t blame it on Satan. Joseph Smith and his followers had very little contact with real Catholicism in Western New York. Their experience was with Baptists and Methodists. Mormonism is perhaps a testimony that when one really looks closely at the New Testament they will come up with something very much like Catholicism.

True. Upstate NY in the early 1800s wasn’t exactly a hotbed of Catholic ferment. It was mostly composed of descendants of the Puritans who had gone west from New England and who had decided to experiment with new ways of being religious. Thus, you have the Mormons coming down from NY, as well as the Oneida community founded by Noyes. Interestingly, both of these groups practiced unique forms of marriage.

 

[az_4_faith]

Come on folks, get real. The Evil One uses any means he can to pull us away from the truth, and if it means tempting some unwitting wanna-be from upstate New York into forming a new religion that kind of looks like the true Church, so be it. No one said that Joseph Smith studied the Catholic Church to replicate it, the Evil One did it all. He used human souls to achieve his goal.

 

[perez639]

I have gone through something similar to you. I almost left the Catholic church for the Mormon religion. For about a year I attended Sunday services at a large stake. Stakes are just bigger than wards which are both the terminology used for their church. I urge you to think twice before making such a decision!

The Roman Catholic church is by no means perfect in any way but I strongly believe that it is innately good considering it was Jesus who started it. Trust that over the revelations that Joseph Smith recieved to start a new one religion. The “true” church that lds members like to call it.

I have done enough research about the lds religion to last me a lifetime and am grateful I did not join a mass who believe many falsehoods. If they seem appealing, that’s how they draw you in. They preach good morals but it is their doctrine that is in err all over the map. If you are finding the Catholic church to not be backing anything up you are in for a surprise with what you discover about the lds religion and how poorly they back up many crucial aspects about the divinity of Jesus Christ. I can tell you this much they don’t make any sense. Feel free to ask any questions…

Prayers are w/ you and your struggles w/ faith,

Regis University Student

 

[mochi]

and know very well of which we speak. i have 37 years under my mormon bridge.

i am not a catholic yet, so i am also, technically-speaking, between religions.

you sound youngish. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST, before you accept any religion. don’t take anyone’s ‘burning testimony’ as fact. use your OWN effort of study and prayer.

investigate the correlation between the mormon religion (and others) with what psychiatric experts state are the use of brainwashing and other techniques used by cults to draw in new members and then,keep them tied up in knotted ropes of guilt without God’s Grace and held prisoners in closets of ignorance.

whatever you commit to, don’t buy any shares for at least two years,bottom line, and remember, as long as the people who are trying to get you to join know that you are wishywashing, they work all that much harder. IT WILL BE A BADGE OF HONOR to bring you into their organization that will bring them adulation and increase of status among their peer group.

and as a post-script, how would you compare the translation of holy books by scholars to that of a man who stared into a stovepipe hat for the words to appear?

good luck and God bless

 

[PaulDupre]

Big Bill,
You think you had a bad experience in the Catholic Church? Just wait until you become a Mormon!!

Wait 'til you see the married guys hanging out in the foyer after Sacrament Meeting eyeing the young girls and saying “that one will be my second wife in the millenium!”.

Wait 'til you get called into the bishop’s office for tithing settlement and the bishop expects you to produce your last pay stub for the year so that he can move the decimal point and compare it to your total tithe for the year. If it doesn’t match, you will receive an invoice for the difference. You have 30 days to pay up or you lose your temple recommend and your callings.

Wait 'til you go to the temple for the first time. You have been told it is “so spiritual” so you expect something wonderful. Instead, you are treated to a Masonic ceremony wherein you wear crazy robes and a killer hat, and you have to promise to give all your money and possesions to the church, and you have to learn the secret handshakes and passwords that will allow you to pass by the angels that guard the gates of heaven. It’s basically Uncle Nutsie’s Clubhouse.

You have no idea what you are getting yourself into. They present a very nice, sweet, positive image while you are investigating. But once you are a member, the mind control starts, and they will rule every aspect of your life. It’s easy to get in, but very hard to get out.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

God help you,
Paul (an ex-Mormon)

P.S.: These are just my experiences. Yours may be even more weird.

 

[BJRumph]

…wherein you wear… a killer hat…

 

[asquared]

I I’m kinda “between religions” right now, after a bad experience with the Catholic Church, and then a brief stint in a local church called the “Reformed Norse Christian Assembly,” I am considering the Mormons. What do you guys all think?

there is all kinds of discussion about Mormons here, do a search and see what you find, but personally, I would like to hear more bout Reformed Norse Christian Assembly, which sounds a lot more fun, but probably not what comes to mind when I link those words in my mind.

 

[Lillith]

Well, folks:

I know the Mormons believe humans can attain divinity. I don’t have much of a problem with it. In fact, it seems reasonable to me. Once again: “You must become perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Those are the words of Jesus. How can one become perfect as the Father is perfect without becoming divine? I’m not sure I can see any other way of fulfilling that command.

Hello big Bill…the “ex-Catholic”…how did you not recognize a passage that supports the doctrine of purgatory?

The created cannot become the creator.

 

[christianley]

Big Bill,

Wait 'til you get called into the bishop’s office for tithing settlement and the bishop expects you to produce your last pay stub for the year so that he can move the decimal point and compare it to your total tithe for the year. If it doesn’t match, you will receive an invoice for the difference. You have 30 days to pay up or you lose your temple recommend and your callings.

I never had a Bishop do that, and I lived in 10 different wards over a 30 year period. The Bishop you describe had to be some kind of a nutso.

 

[jmcrae]

I never had a Bishop do that, and I lived in 10 different wards over a 30 year period. The Bishop you describe had to be some kind of a nutso.

No, I’ve heard of that happening, too - we have a fairly large Mormon population, here, and I’ve often heard of people being audited by their Bishop to determine the amount of their tithe.