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christianley
Guest
This must be an intermountain thing. Perhaps they couldn’t get away with it out in the mission field.
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PaulDupre
Guest
I think he did it because I was a recent convert, and he just didn’t trust a convert to pay a full tithe. Other converts have had the same experience.
When I went to BYU 6 months after being baptised, my branch president also did not like or trust converts. When I registered in the branch, I told him that I was a priest (which I was) and he corrected me “No, you mean you’re a deacon.” “No really”, I explained, “I was ordained a priest one month after my baptism.” He did not believe me and would not allow me to serve as a priest in the branch. He treated me as a deacon, not even allowing me to home teach (which I had done in my home ward).
The father of a girl I was dating told me that he did not want her dating a man who had not attended Primary. I reminded him that neither Joseph Smith nor Brigham Young had attended Primary, and they seemed to be faithful Mormons. He was not amused.
Paul
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zerinus
Guest
Never heard such perverse falsehood perpetrated against the LDS Church, at least on this board. Yes, be very afraid of the wicked lies and falsehoods that apostates and anto-Mormons are willing to declare against the LDS on this board.
zerinus
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PaulDupre
Guest
This [tithing audit] happened in Billerica, MA., which in 1975 was definitely the “mission field”.
Paul
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christianley
Guest
I’m pretty sure they don’t do this anymore. I think if a member reported this to SLC the leader who did this would get in trouble. Heck, you can pay your tithing directly to SLC and SLC won’t even tell the local leader how much tithing you paid. All you have to do is declare yourself a full tithepayer. Rich people do this all the time because they don’t want local people talking about how much money they make. You could send $1 to SLC, call it a full tithe to your Bishop, and he’d never be the wiser. I know people who pay directly to SLC and their Bishop never knows what they pay.
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wademann
Guest
Paul,
you obviously have an ax to grind against the LDS Church. Some how you must have had a really bad experience. Have you tried counseling? I think that if someone wanted to, they could go on a simular rant about the Catholic church. If you want to compare our bishops to your priests using a broad brush, we could, but what a waste of time. Your hatred is only hurting yourself. If what you said happened, really did happen, then you should have reported the people involved.
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wcknight
Guest
Jesus also said to Peter, you are the Rock on which I build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.
Even after all the controversies, the Catholic Church remains intact, and it will prevail because Christ and the Holy Spirit still guides it and always will.
What sort of bad experience are you talking about ? There may be bad priests or bad members and even some bad popes, but the Catholic Church itself, will always be the bride of Christ.
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wademann
Guest
Paul,
I have reported someone that was making inapropriate comments to women. His bishop spoke to him and told him to stop, which he did. 6 months later he was caught having an affair with his kid’s 18 year old ice skating instructor. He is now divorced, and out of the church. Maybe you should of had a backbone and stood up for what is right, instead of running away and blaming all your problems on the church. I know that everybody in the catholic church is perfect though.
I have reported someone that was making inapropriate comments to women. His bishop spoke to him and told him to stop, which he did. 6 months later he was caught having an affair with his kid’s 18 year old ice skating instructor. He is now divorced, and out of the church. Maybe you should of had a backbone and stood up for what is right, instead of running away and blaming all your problems on the church. I know that everybody in the catholic church is perfect though.
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tundramom
Guest
I’ll let Paul speak for himself, but I don’t know of anyone in the Catholic church who believes themself “perfect”. Quite the opposite. We look to Jesus for perfection. Through the Sacrament of Reconcilliation, we ask forgiveness for our mortal sins and are much more aware of our venial sins on a day to day basis than any of the Mormons that I am aware of. Most Mormons who realize they are sinners resign themselves to just accept the Telestial or Terrestial kingdoms and leave those who think they’re perfect to their celestial selves. It’s one of the things that actually brought me out of the Mormon church. I knew I was a sinner, but I didn’t know I was saved by the Grace of God. I thought I had to work for it and could never be sure. hmmmm Maybe Paul has a more substantial backbone than you imply, Wademann.
in Christ
Steph
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majick275
Guest
be more afraid of the lies and false prophecies that the followers of joseph smith spread in trying to lure folks into that cult.
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tundramom
Guest
AMEN!
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wademann
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wademann
Guest
Round and round, BASH,BASH,BASH. So this is what it is to be catholic?
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jmcrae
Guest
Welcome to the human race. There is no place you can go where you won’t find at least some people who have an ax to grind against someone else.
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tundramom
Guest
No wademann,
This is what it’s like to be against the teachings of a false prophet, but to have to defend the teachings of Jesus in the same breath. Then again, there are some who just don’t get it. :banghead:
in Christ
Steph
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wademann
Guest
Likewise I’m sure.
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majick275
Guest
before we get to far down the path of claiming victim status and crying foul on the “bashers” let’s please remember that the LDS church is based on Joseph Smith claiming that not only were ALL other churches wrong but that their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight. Now most LDS probably aren’t very familiar with creeds in this context but try to imagine if soemone said that they had to start a new church because the articles of faith were an abomination in the sight of God and that all who taught them were corrupt. Then maybe you’ll begin to understand why the LDS doctrine is so offensive. That “great apostasy” lesson still begins most missionary discussions by the LDS.
Think about this for a moment. Joseph smith claimed that Christians had messed up gods church so badly that ALL authority to operate a church in gods name was removed from the entire earth for over 1500 years. He then claims that only he was given whatever was necessary to restore Gods church to the earth. compare that with the LDS position that Jesus himself established a church that was basically gone in a generation.
Do you see what I’m saying now? I have the word of God in the bible. I can verify, contextualize and understand it’s meaning through sacred tradition, history and prayer. This allows me to see that despite Joseph Smiths unsupported allegations the Catholic church of today teaches the same doctrine and sacraments as the Apostles taught and thus what Jesus taught. Compare that with the BoM wich doesn’t even teach current LDS church structure, practices or even what are today considered the most important doctrines and ordinances. Those come from the D&C which isn’t even consistent with itself on what the Lord wants you to do.
See Mormonism for what it is. this is like scientology or the branch davidians depending on what part of LDS history you want to look at.
Come on folks! Read the Bible, study it and seek to understand it. Pray to the one and only true God and find your way to Gods church, it’ll be the one with the real presence in the eucharist. The one where God is WORSHIPPED and glorified and praised consistently. Where Christians pray as Jesus taught us to every time.
Repent and be baptized.
Think about this for a moment. Joseph smith claimed that Christians had messed up gods church so badly that ALL authority to operate a church in gods name was removed from the entire earth for over 1500 years. He then claims that only he was given whatever was necessary to restore Gods church to the earth. compare that with the LDS position that Jesus himself established a church that was basically gone in a generation.
Do you see what I’m saying now? I have the word of God in the bible. I can verify, contextualize and understand it’s meaning through sacred tradition, history and prayer. This allows me to see that despite Joseph Smiths unsupported allegations the Catholic church of today teaches the same doctrine and sacraments as the Apostles taught and thus what Jesus taught. Compare that with the BoM wich doesn’t even teach current LDS church structure, practices or even what are today considered the most important doctrines and ordinances. Those come from the D&C which isn’t even consistent with itself on what the Lord wants you to do.
See Mormonism for what it is. this is like scientology or the branch davidians depending on what part of LDS history you want to look at.
Come on folks! Read the Bible, study it and seek to understand it. Pray to the one and only true God and find your way to Gods church, it’ll be the one with the real presence in the eucharist. The one where God is WORSHIPPED and glorified and praised consistently. Where Christians pray as Jesus taught us to every time.
Repent and be baptized.
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LittleDeb
Guest
I was impressed and listening up until that last sentence. Please don’t do that. It only hurts your cause.
I defend LDS beliefs all the time. I am a devout Catholic and anyone who misrepresents either belief will get a good scolding from me. What the former LDS here are seeking to do is to make sure people know what they are actually getting into before joining the LDS church.
I do the very same with anyone seeking to join The Catholic Church. I make sure to point out all the “weird” stuff. As a Catholic I also point out that I absolutely LOVE the weird stuff! It is the “weird” that makes us distinctly Catholic.
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wademann
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I don’t have anything against catholics. I just wanted to make the point, that anyone can pick out isolated incidents, for the purpose of bashing any religion. I know that they don’t think they are perfect, but I was making a point with sarcasmhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif. I could easily go on a rant, against the catholic church or any other religion, as Paul and some others do on this forum, but really I don’t have a problem with any religion that teaches that you should love thy nieghbor, and puts people on a path of growth, through following the example of Jesus. I come to this forum now and again, and I have learned alot about the catholic church and my own church. I have read through all the arguments for and against each church and still believe that my church is true , but have also gained a new respect for the catholic church. There are very inteligent people on both sides and I love reading respectable debates, which I usually stay out of, but when I see blatent bashing and falsehoods. It makes me want to respond.
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majick275
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I really want to know what “falsehoods”. I think I can prove any of my assertions. It is NOT bashing as compettive activity or for fun or out of anger or anything else. It is the quest for truth that motivates me.
I may not have a “problem” with religions that teach love thy neightbor, etc. but that doesn’t mean in my case (or yours if we are being truthful) that I think it’s great for folks to just stay in their current church. I want folks to become Catholic in the devout belief that it is the only way to provide them with the “fullness” of the gospel and thus maximize their opportunity for spiritual growth. I want everyone to have the best possible relationship with God. I beleive that at least on the surface this is the primary motivation for LDS missionary efforts, yes?
I think though that in the case of the LDS church it’s NOT just a church that teaches soome good things. The founding of it is problematic in my opinion and I believe that it’s doctrines and practices lead people AWAY from God.
I mean we could easily look at wiccans as basically good people who teach spiritual growth and while not following the example og Jesus specifically do teach love and respect for others. Does that mean that I think it’s okay to be pagan? certainly not. I also think there is a significant difference in using the same name for a conceptually different entity (Jesus) than actually worshipping the same God. I find this a major point of difference between Catholic and LDS beliefs that appears to be waved of by the LDS. We don’t define Jesus or God the same way at all. We say the same names but we mean something VERY different.
I may not have a “problem” with religions that teach love thy neightbor, etc. but that doesn’t mean in my case (or yours if we are being truthful) that I think it’s great for folks to just stay in their current church. I want folks to become Catholic in the devout belief that it is the only way to provide them with the “fullness” of the gospel and thus maximize their opportunity for spiritual growth. I want everyone to have the best possible relationship with God. I beleive that at least on the surface this is the primary motivation for LDS missionary efforts, yes?
I think though that in the case of the LDS church it’s NOT just a church that teaches soome good things. The founding of it is problematic in my opinion and I believe that it’s doctrines and practices lead people AWAY from God.
I mean we could easily look at wiccans as basically good people who teach spiritual growth and while not following the example og Jesus specifically do teach love and respect for others. Does that mean that I think it’s okay to be pagan? certainly not. I also think there is a significant difference in using the same name for a conceptually different entity (Jesus) than actually worshipping the same God. I find this a major point of difference between Catholic and LDS beliefs that appears to be waved of by the LDS. We don’t define Jesus or God the same way at all. We say the same names but we mean something VERY different.
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