What advice would you give?

[iluvmybabies]

Good day, hope all is well with everyone! I am here looking for help so I can advise a couple of friends whom are well, having a few problems, and whom have asked me for help but I have been at a loss for words… And unsure of how to respond to them…

This is a Catholic -live in- couple…They have been both raised as modern Catholics, go to church once in a while, family loves GOD but never really went deeply into the subject of Bible reading and the love and respect and laws of GOD …Her parents started once she was older-like adult hood-kind of like with my parents-never really taught us much about GOD except for me everything was “you’re going to hell for all this!” But his parents never did…I know that they are trying to get deeper into GOD’s laws and love but it’s a work in progress… They are engaged, and they both work hard at raising their kids…

She and I have been friends for a while, several years, they have been living together for about 4 years engaged for about 2…Something like that, we celebrated their engagement together, it was nice! Uhm, she has been telling me that lately, since he turned 21 he’s been treating her really bad… I know they are both young, she’s around that age too a little older than he is, she works part-time, he doesn’t have a job, he got laid off and hasn’t been able to work for a while…They are making it, with what she makes but even though I see the stress in her eyes and she’s always exhausted. She told me she got a second job because for some strange reason her fiance is unable to get hired…I think it’s because he hasn’t gotten his Highschool diploma but she is certain he is a hs graduate… Not sure.

So anyhow, she told me she’s thinking that this is not working for her…she’s trying to be patient with him, but she can’t stand his unwillingness to work as hard as she does. He does keep their house up, they just bought one not that long ago and they are payments she can afford, and he put all the down payment money and the closing costs she didn’t put a single penny in and they bought a pretty nice house…3 bedrooms and all…lol…

And now she’s the one making the payments… She knows she loves him and she knows how much their kids love him but she’s not sure about how to deal with his change…They had an appointment with their priest yesterday and because he’s been procrastinating in mowing the yard, he decided that yesterday was the day to do it. The both had forgotten about their appointment until they received a call reminding them, she panicked and went on a bit of a rampage on him, with raised voice and all to tell him to go…He told her off-like said s. the f. up what the f ever i have things to do…then she was like this can wait till tomorrow our appointment can’t after what he said to her she stopped called the priest and told him that her fiance didn’t want to go, that he was too busy and that when he was ready he was going to give him a call…

She said that her fiance’s reaction surprised her, he kind of froze and looked at her with this “I can’t believe this just happened” look, as if he realized what he did to her…But didn’t say anything back…She said that later on that evening he tried to justify his reaction to her raising of voice…She didn’t appreciate it…And didn’t say anything to him…

She called me and we left on a long 2 hour walk and took the kids to the park… He kept calling her phone…Then he accused her of cheating on him when she got back home…She said he was just playing with her but she kind of got bothered with it… Yes she had cheated on him before, but it was in the begining of their relationship when they had taken a break and I guess he didn’t know they took one??? But he would have never known about it except she was honest with him and told him…Even though she had told him it was a break time…

Anyhow, they are a young couple, dating since he was 17 and she was like 19 or 20… He’s turning 22 in a month…And he’s very mature for his age…He has always acted like a much older man…Even when I first met him I thought he was actually older than her…But I notice recently about a year ago she has started to complain more about his reactions towards her and his treatment towards her as more rude and disrespectful…It’s really weird…Because even I got surprised about his reaction towards her…He’s super friendly with all her friends, and pretty comfortable with them…But with her he started to treat her with more disrespect than even married couples I know treat their wives…

And even though he swears he loves her enough to marry her and have all the kids they have…And she loves him enough to do so as well…And for being so young they’ve lasted quite a while…Yes they are not married but they will…they’ve been saving for their marriage and with children and him being unemployed now it’s a bit more difficult…I am helping her with wedding and all but still you know?!

His family won’t help them, and neither will hers…Her sister is super excited about a wedding, she was like “it’s about time!” ANd even their priest is proud of them…BUT with his new attitude even the priest was surprised and showed annoyance towards him…She told me that once she told the priest what she told him about her fiance’s reaction about their appointment that the priest sounded very annoyed with him…

This morning she texted me asking me if she could stay with me over the weekend…I was like why?? What happened now?! She was like “well I asked him to help me with the kids this morning and he didn’t, he gave me an attitude and when I raised my voice at him for not helping me and for giving them the wrong clothes that didn’t even fit none of our boys he snapped at me and told me off, like with cuss words and all! Then she was like “I can’t deal with this anymore! I have put up with it all this time and it’s just too much! What is his problem? HE gets mad at me when I ask friends for advise over him makes promises about working things out and never keeps them, and lately I feel as if I am stuck in an asylum with a crazy man I can’t understand? He confuses me, plays with my head so much with his oh I’m sorry I am going to remember what I did so I don’t do it again, and then turns around and does it again?!” I was like ok well you’ve dealt with it all this time what’s a few more years of you both growing together?! You are older than him by a couple of years and he’s just turning 22 so give him some time…I remember when I was that age, I was a train wreck!! LOL Always wanting to party even though I all ready had kids but I knew my responsibilities and I stuck by them…And she was like duh so do I…and he’s been more fribolous about everything including paying bills!

 

[iluvmybabies]

I know they are a great couple and before she never complained about him at all except for once in a while when they would argue then kiss and make up…I am super proud of them, because usually kids their age just want to go out party and be promiscuous and deal with bcps and stuff like that and not care about responsibilities nor want a family, and they have made it for all this time and raising their children healthy and all…and she tells me how before he would like apologize immediately after he would blurt out something rude or mean and he would literally get on his knees and apologize then tell her how much she’s his queen etc…And I saw him do this a couple of times and I would tell her how lucky she was…

He would even tell me things like “If it wasn’t for her I don’t know where I’d be!” And she would tell me the same thing…But now she’s like “I don’t know what I am doing?!” And she asked me what I would do…I don’t know! I mean she says that now he doesn’t apologize, she can tell he knows he did something wrong but if it’s not her asking for an apology he won’t do it…AND I don’t have any advice to give her! After 10 years of putting up with a manipulative man I left him…But this guy doesn’t manipulate her nor tell her what to do…

I think maybe it’s the stress that he had a good computer job since he was 18 and got laid off 2 years later and hasn’t been able to find another job as good as that one…I mean this guy was banking in about 50 grand all on his own without a degree… that’s how he was able to put down all the money he did for their house…And now she has to work 2 jobs…She hates her second job because it’s in a pizza place but she’s like “OK I can work making pizzas and he can’t?”

I can’t give her advise because I don’t want them to break up, and me being a stubborn woman for abusive men would advise for her to leave him so I told her I didn’t know but that I was going to get really good advice from some great people…they have such great potential and give me hope for the youth of this world and for my relationship as well… But she’s willing to give up when they are so close in receiving GOD’s blessing… But I don’t know what to tell her about her fiancé…Or how to make it work?

She’s been drinking a lot lately…We used to have a few drinks during the weekends together all of us, but soon she would leave and get a full bottle of strong alchy and then fights would start between the 2 of them because she felt so mistreated…I would feel super bad for her… This weekend I told her I had no money for drinking, it’s true I don’t, so she was like “oh ok it’s cool because I need to take a break for all of this!” And then asked me if she could stay with me…

I don’t know what to tell her…any advise would help… I told her I would get back at her because I was busy at the moment…She didn’t tell her family because her sister would tell her to leave him…SO I told her to wait until I got some good help! And I could really use it right now because I know she’s desperate…And extremely frustrated…She hasn’t been treated this way by him before and she said it’s beginning to be a daily thing now! And I know they can work things out…I just don’t know what to tell her…And she needs some really good advise right now! They made it this far and without being married that’s pretty good…So I know they can make it…He still swears he needs and loves her and that she’s the one for him…so what’s wrong with him???

So any advise is greatly appreciated! I thank you in advance…Hope you have a blessed day! Sorry this is long but I just feel like I am the only friend she has right now that doesn’t judge them but is trying to help them out…you know? I don’t know it’s kind of hard to really give advise to someone when I don’t really know what to say you know?! Thanks again for your help!

 

[SpaceNeedle]

I hate to say it, but maybe a little “cooling off” time, since they are not married yet- might be in order. Could your friend stay with you, or would that be too burdensome with the kids? It sounds like the family is no help…

One thing I believe, is that a baby (or two!) does not a marriage make. Plenty of people have babies with people they’re not really compatible with. This is why, even if you’re pregnant or have children, you’re still required to go through pre-Cana and other marriage prep stuff before you can receive the Sacrament- it’s important, and just because you might have made some incorrect decisions in the past does not mean you are bound to the person you made the poor decisions with. Marriage requires a true discernment process…it kinda seems like you’re friend is discerning right now, and the result isn’t good.

It sounds like you are a good shoulder for your friend. Please continue to be so, and I will pray for you both.

 

[dashso40]

You say he’s mature but he sounds quite immature…I think they both need counseling right away before they get married…

 

[iluvmybabies]

I hate to say it, but maybe a little “cooling off” time, since they are not married yet- might be in order. Could your friend stay with you, or would that be too burdensome with the kids? It sounds like the family is no help…

One thing I believe, is that a baby (or two!) does not a marriage make. Plenty of people have babies with people they’re not really compatible with. This is why, even if you’re pregnant or have children, you’re still required to go through pre-Cana and other marriage prep stuff before you can receive the Sacrament- it’s important, and just because you might have made some incorrect decisions in the past does not mean you are bound to the person you made the poor decisions with. Marriage requires a true discernment process…it kinda seems like you’re friend is discerning right now, and the result isn’t good.

It sounds like you are a good shoulder for your friend. Please continue to be so, and I will pray for you both.

Thanks! I know they too are taking their premarital classes…that’s why it’s kind of weird that he’s been acting kind of cold to her??? I mean I was like “if you decided to have kids with this man and woman why would you start acting up after words?” I mean I am 7 years older than she is and even I think they have done pretty well for being just an engaged couple not married…

Well I have 3 kids and with hers it would kind of be a little I don’t know noisy?? LOL But of course if she really needs to stay my doors are always open, I just feel that they need to really talk or go see the priest about this because I mean, there has to be something going on with him if he’s disrespecting her and treating her so coldly, I mean they aren’t even married and he’s treating her as my exhusband treated me while we were married!! Except without the whole manipulation thing… lol

Well I don’t think they made the children from mistakes, or not using bcps, they were both very open to life…But she told me that he’s been smoking pot lately too, that she caught him with a few friends in their basement, and then he told her that “you know what ***** told me, he said this is a natural birth control did you know it makes the man infertile for a while that’s why his wife hasn’t gotten pregnant for over 3 years isn’t that great we won’t have to worry about having more kids and endangering your life with more kids for a while and we can dedicate to the ones we have, isn’t that cool?!” She was like WHAT? I know they used to before they had kids, they were into all that party life, and then the kids came and they had stopped just a few drinks here and there and stuff…I mean they are really mature for their age…But now this?? I am even confused…

I mean I remember my exhusband would smoke pot all the time, it never bothered me because he never did it around me, always with his friends so it was like whatever…But with this girl, I don’t know it kind of feels wrong you know?! And he told her it was a once in a while thing so she dropped it because like I said she told me they used to on a daily basis…Then she was like “we grew up!” And so I was like so what’s his excuse now?! And then she told me what he said…And I was like ok…???.. And then he was like “God put this here for men to smoke it up so that they don’t get their women pregnant!!” I started laughing I thought it was just the most hilarious thing I had ever heard…she started laughing with me too but it’s a serious matter you know?! What if it is true isn’t that a sin? I mean seriously? I know he didn’t come up with the excuse all on his own I mean I didn’t even know that…and if knowingly smoking something so that you don’t have working sperm isn’t that a sin??? I don’t know maybe he’s being too naive…This friend of his is like in his late 30’s…

I don’t know… I don’t want to tell her to leave him…and that it’s ok to just give up on her relationship that she has worked so hard with her man, I mean I know they love each other…And like I said they have been together for 4 years and just recently he’s started to act so rudely to her…BUT I just don’t know if it’s because he’s feeling as if he owns her or what his deal is…She texted me right now telling me he wants to talk to her and see her…She’s at work…I told her I was working on it still!!! She wants to see him…I was like UHM WAIT!! LOL I seriously don’t know what else to say…I feel bad…

 

[iluvmybabies]

You say he’s mature but he sounds quite immature…I think they both need counseling right away before they get married…

Yes they go to their premarital classes and they have told me it had been going great…I don’t know what’s been going on with him though…And lately she’s been really depressed and very doubtful you know!?

I mean seriously I had not heard about him mistreating her at all before, this is just recently…Which kind of makes me wonder what in the world could be going on with him?! He reminds me of my soon-to-be bil, he started treating his fiance cold too before they got married, and then she left him for 2 weeks and then things got better for both of them…I don’t know if it is a phase men go through before they are married that they treat their women as possessions or what??? Really weird and I got divorced so I can’t really tell her good advise you know?!

 

[dashso40]

I partied before i had kids…but I stopped once I had them…He needs to stop smoking pot and hanging out with his friends…he needs to get serious and be there for his family…he’s young, his issues will only get worse without counseling…

 

[iluvmybabies]

I partied before i had kids…but I stopped once I had them…He needs to stop smoking pot and hanging out with his friends…he needs to get serious and be there for his family…he’s young, his issues will only get worse without counseling…

Yeah I mean it surprised me that he cancelled their appointment with the priest…I was like huh? What’s his problem??? And he told her off and everything… I don’t understand him…And I don’t know what to tell her… I told her I wasn’t so sure about letting him smoke so much, I understand you need to you know get relaxed or whatever but somethings just go over board you know?!

Especially with so many young children…

 

[dashso40]

Maybe he’s cheating on her…which might explain the erratic behavior…

 

[iluvmybabies]

Maybe he’s cheating on her…which might explain the erratic behavior…

Really? I didn’t even think about that??? I don’t know when or how they are together most of the time except for when she’s at work…I mean she trusts him, I don’t know he doesn’t look like the cheating type…I mean he’s nice to all of her friends, and he tells her how much he loves her…It sickens me!! LOL…The other day they were in their car waiting for us to go with them and they wouldn’t stop making out, it was like all lovey dovey and ****! LOL That’s why it’s kind of hard to believe they are having such problems you know?!

I don’t know should I tell her maybe he’s cheating on her???

 

[MitziQB]

I’d like to say a word on his behalf. He is a very young man, faced with responsibilities that men much older and experienced than he would not be able to handle. Your friend does not sound very compassionate to the fact that so far he has been a good father and provider (after all, he put all the money down on the house, correct?). And she CHOSE him to be the father of their children. As the woman in the relationship, I firmly believe she has the power to build him up or tear him down. Right now he’s obviously going through a tough time and probably feels like a failure: he can’t get a job, he can’t support his family, he can’t do what he’s supposed to do as the man. That’s an awful situation to be in, and instead of being supportive and loving, it sounds as though she’s spending a lot of time yelling at him and then being surprised (!!!) when he reacts. If you kick an animal that’s wounded, they’re going to bite. Humans are very similar: when we are in pain, we overreact. I’m not saying that he has the right to swear at her, but it’s understandable. She does not have the right to yell at him, either.

Of course, I realize we do not have the whole story: no one does except this couple. I would recommend she read Dr. Laura’s The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. Dr. Laura has a lot of insight into situations like this, and I’ve learned a lot from her, much to my husband’s delight and our family’s benefit! Maybe it will help them, too. For the sake of their children, they need to open to change. They have a very important responsibility to their sons’ well-being.

 

[MitziQB]

Do NOT tell her he might be cheating on her if she doesn’t have any suspicion and if you never thought about it before. If there’s no smoke, don’t report a fire. It will just cause more problems. Go with the facts you have, not suspicions, for the sake of the children.

 

[iluvmybabies]

I’d like to say a word on his behalf. He is a very young man, faced with responsibilities that men much older and experienced than he would not be able to handle. Your friend does not sound very compassionate to the fact that so far he has been a good father and provider (after all, he put all the money down on the house, correct?). And she CHOSE him to be the father of their children. As the woman in the relationship, I firmly believe she has the power to build him up or tear him down. Right now he’s obviously going through a tough time and probably feels like a failure: he can’t get a job, he can’t support his family, he can’t do what he’s supposed to do as the man. That’s an awful situation to be in, and instead of being supportive and loving, it sounds as though she’s spending a lot of time yelling at him and then being surprised (!!!) when he reacts. If you kick an animal that’s wounded, they’re going to bite. Humans are very similar: when we are in pain, we overreact. I’m not saying that he has the right to swear at her, but it’s understandable. She does not have the right to yell at him, either.

Of course, I realize we do not have the whole story: no one does except this couple. I would recommend she read Dr. Laura’s The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. Dr. Laura has a lot of insight into situations like this, and I’ve learned a lot from her, much to my husband’s delight and our family’s benefit! Maybe it will help them, too. For the sake of their children, they need to open to change. They have a very important responsibility to their sons’ well-being.

Question…As this girls friend, and a mother myself, and exwife as well…I don’t think it’s fair either that all the responsibility has to fall on her only right now that he’s not feeling well… ??? I mean if I ask my husband to help me with the children one day because I am running late and he doesn’t do it right because he’s being lazy, and that makes me late to the only job that pays our bills, I will snap…She didn’t cuss at him or tell him off, she did yell at him but didn’t tell him off and he did do that to her…

This woman tells me everything…the other night, a week ago, her fiance was very upset with her because she’s an open book to all her friends, he pulled me away from everyone with her, and was like “how much of our relationship do you know?!” I was like whatever my dear friend has told me… And he was like “damn it that’s the same ******** her sister said and all these other bitches! WTF!!!” I was like uhm, what’s going on??? But he had been out with his friends that night and did have a few drinks…

The next day he was all apologizing for his reactions and all, and I was like dude it’s no biggie and she was like “yes it is I can’t believe him, he goes and tells his friends everything and lately doesn’t want to listen to what I have to say, so why can’t I confide in the only people that seem to want to listen to me?!” She was really upset but they worked out through it…he admitted he did the same talk to his “boys” all the time and all…so they made it ok out of that small dilemma…

And I have never seen her want to quit you know?! Yes they both worked really hard I saw their efforts, and while she was studying and advancing and raising the children, he was working and trying to maintain their household and saving for their home…And they have 3 tiny tots…not just one…And even though he too decided to help make the children, they didn’t make themselves so he needs to be responsible as well…

That’s like my exhusband, he was stressed taking care of his family, I worked, studied and was a full-time wife and mother…All he did was work, where was my break??? I couldn’t let myself fall into depression because of all I had to do…I didn’t have time…Even after I was diagnosed with postpartum depression I had to fight my way out of it with myself…It was difficult especially not having my husband’s support instead all the manipulation and all, so I don’t think it’s fair that everything has to fall ontop of the woman because the man is having a breakdown…??? And I am not going to tell her that she’s in the wrong when all she wanted was his help with their own children… He hasn’t worked in over a year…next year will be 2 years…

Yes I understand it must be frustrating to him about being the bread winner and all but I just don’t think if he’s not being mistreated that he needs to mistreat her and disrespect her when he feels like it… I hope they can work this through…She’s seeing him for lunch…

I feel bad for her because I still couldn’t give her advise she chose to see him on her own…I didn’t say anything to her…

 

[iluvmybabies]

Do NOT tell her he might be cheating on her if she doesn’t have any suspicion and if you never thought about it before. If there’s no smoke, don’t report a fire. It will just cause more problems. Go with the facts you have, not suspicions, for the sake of the children.

yeah i am not telling her about the cheating thing…besides i think they just need to talk about things…because they made it this far dont know why they cant make it longer you know?! thanks…I’ll just keep to myself until she comes back from lunch and she starts texting me…lol…

 

[MitziQB]

You are a very kind, loving friend. Just being there for her and listening is a wonderful gift. It must be a great comfort that she has your shoulder to lean on. She and her fiance are in my prayers. What a difficult situation! May God bless your efforts to show her His path for their family.

 

[whatevergirl]

*Hi iluvmybabies;

I will try to be as kind as I can be…but she should say…BYE! Let’s see…he doesn’t have any ambition to work, she’s working two jobs, he is mean, yells at her, treats her badly…sounds like he could be lying about his hs diploma. I say she should take some time away from this guy for a while, and really REALLY think about things before marrying him. Marriage will not iron out these kinks, they’ll only get worse. Much. He also sounds incredibly immature. Ugh, why do women settle like this???

He knows how to push her buttons, and he does. He knows what to say, to make her think things are going to change…and then, they go back to the same old same old. I am a forgiving person, but this is why you don’t move in with a man before marriage, buy a house with someone you’re not married to, and you don’t marry a man who doesn’t treat you well. This is all she knows, because they have been dating since they were teens, trust me, there are many better men out there. :sad_yes: He actually sounds like a boy, frankly. Sorry, I would not marry this man at the status quo.

Ok, now go back and tell her all that. Kidding, but I would not candy coat this…she needs a friend who will help her. If she wants to marry a man who treats her badly, calls her names, doesn’t work, and is immature…then, he’s the right one.

Liberano…where are you??? npatrol: I KNOW she will offer great advice. *

 

[whatevergirl]

yeah i am not telling her about the cheating thing…besides i think they just need to talk about things…because they made it this far dont know why they cant make it longer you know?! thanks…I’ll just keep to myself until she comes back from lunch and she starts texting me…lol…

*No, now see…this is what keeps people in toxic relationships…well, we bought a house together, have gone this far together…it’s never too late before you’re married to do an about face before marrying the totally wrong person. The problem is that she pretends they are married already, buying a house, having kids…they are not married, and because she chooses to pretend like they are, she tolerates way too much. Even married, this relationship needs major help.

I know they have kids together, but marrying this man at the status quo will be a big mistake…UNLESS, she likes immature, mean, lazy men…then, she has the right man for her. *

 

[whatevergirl]

*I’ll say this too…when you date/marry a man who doesn’t make you feel good about yourself over and over…when he treats you less than you deserve over and over…and you don’t leave…then, you eventually become accustomed to being treated that way, and you don’t see a way out. You only know this treatment.

I tell my daughter, don’t ever settle. It’s better to be alone, than choose a man who will treat you badly. I dated men who treated me badly before my husband, and when I met my husband, I did not know there were such good men on the planet! That’s what happens when you keep picking the wrong guys to be with…you grow accustomed to being treated poorly. Hopefully, my dd will see, that her dad treats me great, and that is what you look for in a man…

I’m sorry, I wish I could sound encouraging, but I think your friend’s fiance sounds far from being ready to be married. FAR. *

 

[Liberanosamalo]

So… they played house and made babies for 4 years, starting way too young. Their brains are still growing and developing, and his is going in a direction she doesn’t like. He’s a work in progress. So is she. It’s hit a crossroads. The road is diverging in separate directions. She is responsible, he seems to be seeking the teenage years he missed out on.

Do you marry that? Will that make it better? She has a glimpse of the future with a man who doesn’t handle stress well. She wants to tie herself and her children to that forever?

She doesn’t tell the truth to the people she suspects will give her advice she doesn’t want to hear.

He doesn’t want to talk to the priest.

Neither of them are ready for marriage. Her drinking and depression are because her gut is telling her this is a bad decision. She needs to learn to trust her own instincts. This relationship is not healthy for her or the children.

Yes, he could be making pizza. Anything to provide for his children. If he was really talented, they’d make him a manager. Some men lose a job and go find two smaller jobs to replace them. Others sit around and lose their joblessness as a reason to be angry and abuse the people who depend upon him.

And the closer the wedding date comes, the more hostile he becomes. Deep down he does not want to be married. He’s pushing her away. I’ve seen it many times. It was fine till the wedding date came on the horizon.

Why are YOU so invested in this couple making it? A little too much. Don’t put your hope for the youth of the country on this flawed couple’s shoulders. They really aren’t that mature. Buying a house and making babies who aren’t protected by the legal boundaries of a marriage doesn’t make people adults and mature. This couple has shown that neither of them has a lot of impulse control.

They’re not adults yet. And marriage is for adults.

 

[iluvmybabies]

thanks for the advise… After they had lunch on friday she told me that they were going to talk…They spent saturday with us, and things looked ok…But she’s the one whom doesn’t really like to tell a lot of the truth for fear of what she’ll hear several times she’s done that to me and her sister…But I saw them over the weekend and heard from her on monday and things seemed a little mellow…She told me that he even called the priest today and the Father wasn’t there so he left a message wanting to schedule an appointment, she said she was there when he did it…So like she tells me, too soon to tell… I asked her too if maybe he had cold feet? He told her he wants to marry her and for her to be his wife… So I hope that things continue going well…So far she told me he hasn’t raised his voice nor told her off…But like she said too soon to tell. Hopefully they can get in there and talk to the priest and get some counseling you know?!

I shouldn’t be too all up on them and everything but she is my friend as well and well, I want to be there for her as much as possible…