What are "demons" accused of doing these days?

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My friend, you don’t have to tell me that. 🙂 I know that. But it was supposed that St. Vitus dance was a sign of demonic possession. Don’t you realize that the whole OP was tongue-in-cheek? To expose the incredible gullibility and stupidity of those who used to believe all that nonsense?

I am infinitely surprised that there are still people who believe in guardian-angels, demons, imps, werewolves, witches, poltergeists and such. In the 21st century! As Einstein said once: “There are two things which are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the Universe”. I know about people who believe in the curative powers of pyramidal structures, who trust “lay-on-hands” con-artists (aka: faith-healers), who believe in auras, astrology, and such. Incredible and very sad.
lol.
 
My friend, you don’t have to tell me that. 🙂 I know that. But it was supposed that St. Vitus dance was a sign of demonic possession. Don’t you realize that the whole OP was tongue-in-cheek? To expose the incredible gullibility and stupidity of those who used to believe all that nonsense?

I am infinitely surprised that there are still people who believe in guardian-angels, demons, imps, werewolves, witches, poltergeists and such. In the 21st century! As Einstein said once: “There are two things which are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the Universe”. I know about people who believe in the curative powers of pyramidal structures, who trust “lay-on-hands” con-artists (aka: faith-healers), who believe in auras, astrology, and such. Incredible and very sad.
How do you know that all cases of epilepsy these days are indeed cases of epilepsy?
Can you provide some evidence? And i wouldn’t quote Einstein when it comes to mocking the ignorant.
 
I think you should differentiate between “Church has never taught” to “before we knew about epilepsy, it may well be considored the sign of a demon”.

Having fits and seizures was one of the signs, before we knew about epilepsy and related conditions, which could have been interpreted as a sign of posession. Even I know that.
op calls it church teaching, I didn’t let him provide a source, a general statement on “what might have been misunderstood” does not require an apologetics response, for which he is asking
 
What is the (infallible) teaching of the Catholic Church nowdays concerning “demons”? Do the demons still assumed to cause epilepsy? Or other actual maladies? Are the demons still being exorcised? Or did the Church realize that medical science has bypassed those dark-age ideas? Do demons have horns, and walk on hoofs? Amazing questions. Any answers?
Read this book and it should help you to understand a little better:
St. Teresa of Avila’s Interior Castle

My opinion is that demons can be blame for most sickness due to their inheritableness of your body. This can mainly be observed when you see the unworthy(the unforgiven, such as the ones that did not go to confession) partake of Communion. Other observations can be to closely watch people whom you know to have evil minds, think about people that are consider psychotic murders, rapists, they are often associated closely with voices in their heads which tells them to do bad things. Think hard about your own thoughts where you seem to naturally flow with dreams and in your dreams the persons seem to be talking to one another but mostly to you. Are these demons Ior the imagination? Doesn’t some of these characters seem to be able to be in your mind irregardless of rather you want or not,
do they seem to have voices which are of their own? I notice in jails, when the Sheriff department use to run them instead of private companies, that a lot of the deputies seem to inherent the spirits of the prisoners which they were in charge of, I always thought that if you wanted better behaving cops then they would have to separate themselves from having to associate so much with prisoners. So the sickness of the minds were brought about by association which often led to the Cops being just as bad as the worst prisoners.

I do not know much about exorcism but some good and constant reading of spirit fill teachings can certaintly keep the demons at bay. Much better thought processes anyways.
HEALTHY MIND = HEALTHY BODY
Or did the Church realize that medical science has bypassed those dark-age ideas?
I can see by that comment that you have never experience the Spirit of God or you would know that it is science which is far-far-far behind The Church. Never-the-less, read the above book which should not take much of your time from your science studies. And also, you can learn to love both science and The Church, if you so choose.
 
My friend, you don’t have to tell me that. 🙂 I know that. But it was supposed that St. Vitus dance was a sign of demonic possession. Don’t you realize that the whole OP was tongue-in-cheek? To expose the incredible gullibility and stupidity of those who used to believe all that nonsense?

I am infinitely surprised that there are still people who believe in guardian-angels, demons, imps, werewolves, witches, poltergeists and such. In the 21st century! As Einstein said once: “There are two things which are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the Universe”. I know about people who believe in the curative powers of pyramidal structures, who trust “lay-on-hands” con-artists (aka: faith-healers), who believe in auras, astrology, and such. Incredible and very sad.
So are you saying that people who believe in guardian angels and demons are stupid?
 
So are you saying that people who believe in guardian angels and demons are stupid?
I did not say that explicitly, but I definitely implied it. And I take responsibility for it. Now, let me ask you back: do you think that people who believe in poltergeists, astrology, auras, palm-reading, etc… are stupid?
 
I did not say that explicitly, but I definitely implied it. And I take responsibility for it. Now, let me ask you back: do you think that people who believe in poltergeists, astrology, auras, palm-reading, etc… are stupid?
Ah. The depth of your ignorance is such that it’s hard to know where to begin.

Did you ever wonder why all of humanity for most of history and most of humanity even now not only believes in, but interacts with and actively experiences the spiritual realm?

Do you not recognize the holes in your own logic wherein YOU are blindly accepting and even regurgitating statements that seem true to you but have ABSOLUTELY no substance or credibility?

It’s easy for me to write this because I am speaking to a younger, much less wise ME.

If the Bible doesn’t matter to you, then I really don’t understand what you’re even doing on this site; but if it does matter, then you need to spend a lot more time reading it. BECAUSE then you’d have noticed that there is a clear and definite DISTINCTION made between “healing the sick” and exorcism. Jesus very distinctly does BOTH. It is a total lie contrived by modern mud-slingers that states that “most illnesses were thought to be due to possession”. That’s simply not so and I would love to see a single shred of supporting documentation to that fact. I already have pointed to the Bible.

Now; as for modern exorcism. As an earlier poster already stated, but I will restate for the slow of reading; it is required that before the ritual exorcism is performed, the possessed person must undergo extensive medical evaluations. I mean running the full gamut of doctors every which way till Tuesday. We’re talking Psychoanalysis, imaging, physicals the whole works. Think about it logically, if the Church, doesn’t perform such things, then they are liable if something goes wrong. Additionally, if an exorcism is performed and the person does not improve, then there is the risk of faith being lost.

The main point for recognizing a need to perform exorcism is when the person exhibits knowledge beyond what they should. Like, for example, speaking in ancient Greek; or knowing that the exorcist dropped his piece of toast on the floor that morning. It is also a requirement that a medical doctor be present during the exorcism, in the diocese I’m familiar with.

Yes exorcisms are real, and yes they are performed and yes they do work and are probably more common than you might think; however, far more common are those people that DO like to blame everything on demonic activity. For example, an out of control teenager MUST be possessed, never mind that they were never disciplined growing up. It really is no wonder that people take the larger sum of data-points and assign false conclusions of hysteria regarding the demonic. Sadly, it is that recognized stigma that prevents people with REAL problems from stepping forward.

Spock, we all know about epilepsy. The Church knows about epilepsy. But after an MRI reveals no evidence of the scarring that accompanies epilepsy and when a Tonic–clonic seizure aka grand mal seizure is accompanied by levitation and fluent Latin, those with *wisdom *and insight try to look a little closer at what may be happening.

By the way; many, probably most Catholics don’t believe this sort of thing or choose to ignore it. It is NOT a requirement of our faith that we believe in exorcism.

Oh, and to answer your question; people who “believe” in poltergeists, astrology, auras, palm-reading, etc… are *misguided *and misinformed as to potential dangers, not to mention breaking the first Commandment.
👍
 
Did you ever wonder why all of humanity for most of history and most of humanity even now not only believes in, but interacts with and actively experiences the spiritual realm?
I do wonder indeed. But I can see a reason for that in the old times, when the amount of knowledge was miniscule compared to our age, and people tried to explain the unknowns of nature. The simplest “explanation” is, of course, some unknown force, or a god. Usually there was a process of performing a sacrifice to appease this force.

As for “interaction” it would be nice to see a well-documented example, performed in the company of trained stage-magicians, like James Randi. Magicians are trained in separating the make-belief from reality. By the way, the foundation started by James Randi has a one million dollar prize claimable by anyone who can prove any kind of “supernatural”. The setup is not hostile toward the claimant, they actively participate in the arrangement of the experiment. So far… guess what… no winners.

The most common “excuse” for rejecting to participate is that the claimant is not interested in “money”. How lame. They could use that cool one million to give to any charity of their choice, if they did not want that “dirty” money in their hands.

By the way, exorcism would belong into this category. Somehow I don’t see the exorcists bang on the door of the foundation. (randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) I wonder, why?
 
From a rational perspective…Devils and demons as well as witches, goblins, elfs, ghosts etc. are the invention of incredibly, idiotic inventions of a sick mind. It’s funny how some people imaginations run wild especially when that something is invisible and unprovable. Rapid proliferation to other gullible individuals is usually dependent on a profit motive. You remove the motive and you remove the nonsensicle and idiotic.Superstions and ignorance usually trumps reason, common sense and intelligence only in the religious realm where anything and everything is possible.In this day and age we need to abandon the idea that there is an outside force or being attached to human behaviors or afflictions. We need to take direct ownership of everything we say or do and not ascribe these to anything outside our own minds.
I also believe these adult fantasies are not good to our children emotional health:)
 
What is the (infallible) teaching of the Catholic Church nowdays concerning “demons”? Do the demons still assumed to cause epilepsy? Or other actual maladies? Are the demons still being exorcised? Or did the Church realize that medical science has bypassed those dark-age ideas? Do demons have horns, and walk on hoofs? Amazing questions. Any answers?
Cynicism
Sarcasm
Skepticism

Comments from a trolling “asm”.
 
I do wonder indeed. But I can see a reason for that in the old times, when the amount of knowledge was miniscule compared to our age, and people tried to explain the unknowns of nature. The simplest “explanation” is, of course, some unknown force, or a god. Usually there was a process of performing a sacrifice to appease this force.
Wow. How easy it is to pull unreferenced “facts” out of the air. Your assumptions are to such a degree as to be astounding. All people for all times including most people before this time … until “Spock” and a few special elite are gullible idiots. When I think of the brilliant minds, including Einstein, that you resign to idiocy, it; well just blows me away.
As for “interaction” it would be nice to see a well-documented example, performed in the company of trained stage-magicians, like James Randi. Magicians are trained in separating the make-belief from reality. By the way, the foundation started by James Randi has a one million dollar prize claimable by anyone who can prove any kind of “supernatural”. The setup is not hostile toward the claimant, they actively participate in the arrangement of the experiment. So far… guess what… no winners.
I’m very familiar with Randi’s challenge.
Are you familiar with Randi’s agenda?
Have you personally perused all the documentation that has been submitted to him?
Do you understand what is required to “prove” supernatural activity?
Supernatural activity is not a side-show that sends out fliers telling us where the next “happening” is going to take place in order that we can set up all our equipment and document every moment of what is taking place. Even if we could or did, all Randi has to say is: this could have been faked. Please try to think of a scenario in THIS day and age that couldn’t be faked. If you thought of one, you’re deluded and ignorant.
The most common “excuse” for rejecting to participate is that the claimant is not interested in “money”. How lame. They could use that cool one million to give to any charity of their choice, if they did not want that “dirty” money in their hands.
It’s fascinating that you have such keen insight into the minds of those who don’t step forward. I’m curious as to how you are able to accomplish said feat. Hmm… is it ESP? Better call Randi and see if he’ll for over his money.
By the way, exorcism would belong into this category. Somehow I don’t see the exorcists bang on the door of the foundation. (randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) I wonder, why?
Gee. Did it ever occur to you that by bringing a private thing like an exorcism or healing or anything else to Randi’s door makes them subject to his authority? It is not for Randi or anyone else to judge what God allows. Besides the Church is not in the business of proving the supernatural. It was not until very recently that this religion of non-religion even came into being.

Randi’s lack of “test” results only proves something to the truly gullible and the incredibly ignorant. Think *OUTSIDE *the box. Spock. Don’t be afraid to use your own mind instead of parroting mainstream rhetoric. You’ll be surprised to learn that the world is a MUCH bigger place than you ever imagined.

Judging, by the fact that you patently ignore all my good points and pick one that affords you an opportunity to soapbox… I’m not holdin’ my breath for you bud.
 
From a rational perspective…Devils and demons as well as witches, goblins, elfs, ghosts etc. are the invention of incredibly, idiotic inventions of a sick mind. It’s funny how some people imaginations run wild especially when that something is invisible and unprovable. Rapid proliferation to other gullible individuals is usually dependent on a profit motive. You remove the motive and you remove the nonsensicle and idiotic.Superstions and ignorance usually trumps reason, common sense and intelligence only in the religious realm where anything and everything is possible.In this day and age we need to abandon the idea that there is an outside force or being attached to human behaviors or afflictions. We need to take direct ownership of everything we say or do and not ascribe these to anything outside our own minds.
I also believe these adult fantasies are not good to our children emotional health:)
My goodness, it’s a *DARK *world you live in.
Nonetheless you’re entitled to your beliefs. And that’s what I’m seeing here, beliefs without substance.
I mean sure, it’s very clear that there are sad individuals that focus on money as their god and even do so under the guise of religion. These are the exception to the rule, however; the “wolves in sheep’s clothing” that Jesus warns us about in Matt 7:15.

Considering one of the principal tenet of Catholicism is care of the poor,
newadvent.org/cathen/12236a.htm
I find it a bit difficult to swallow your lumping of so many disparate ideas under one overarching umbrella of money driven motivation. As I said, you’re welcome to your theory, but it paints a bleak picture of humanity indeed.
 
I did not say that explicitly, but I definitely implied it. And I take responsibility for it. Now, let me ask you back: do you think that people who believe in poltergeists, astrology, auras, palm-reading, etc… are stupid?
I deny, first of all, that each of those are comparable. Three out of those four, for example, are condemned by the Church, and, I think, can be demonstrably shown to be false. I have SEEN poltergeist activity, so…
 
From a rational perspective…Devils and demons as well as witches, goblins, elfs, ghosts etc. are the invention of incredibly, idiotic inventions of a sick mind.
I just wanted to comment on this because it is something I see quite often by atheists. There is nothing “rational” about that perspective. It is simply a vacuous assertion that has not at all been rationally supported. What you are doing is equivocating “naturalism” with what is “rational.”
 
What is the (infallible) teaching of the Catholic Church nowdays concerning “demons”? Do the demons still assumed to cause epilepsy? Or other actual maladies? Are the demons still being exorcised? Or did the Church realize that medical science has bypassed those dark-age ideas? Do demons have horns, and walk on hoofs? Amazing questions. Any answers?
They’re still around. You may be well within their clutches yourself. They are not likely to show themselves to you, lest you become frightened and run to the Church.

If you want to experience evidence of their existence, try living according to the Gospel. Demons hate to lose a soul that they thought was theirs.

Here’s a story, one of many …

speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=16590&tag=catholic

… and tell me which type of seizure disorder or DSM-IV psychiatric diagnosis is operating here.

If you do not wish to believe, do so on your own recognizance. I may be the last person in your life who will tell you in no uncertain terms about this metaphysical reality.
 
I do wonder indeed. But I can see a reason for that in the old times, when the amount of knowledge was miniscule compared to our age, and people tried to explain the unknowns of nature. The simplest “explanation” is, of course, some unknown force, or a god. Usually there was a process of performing a sacrifice to appease this force.

As for “interaction” it would be nice to see a well-documented example, performed in the company of trained stage-magicians, like James Randi. Magicians are trained in separating the make-belief from reality. By the way, the foundation started by James Randi has a one million dollar prize claimable by anyone who can prove any kind of “supernatural”. The setup is not hostile toward the claimant, they actively participate in the arrangement of the experiment. So far… guess what… no winners.

The most common “excuse” for rejecting to participate is that the claimant is not interested in “money”. How lame. They could use that cool one million to give to any charity of their choice, if they did not want that “dirty” money in their hands.

By the way, exorcism would belong into this category. Somehow I don’t see the exorcists bang on the door of the foundation. (randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) I wonder, why?
I’d like to see James Randi stay overnight at Bobby Mackey’s Blues Club in Wilder, KY. or the Linda Vista Hospital in Los Angeles and* then* be able to prove that ghosts don’t exist. Good luck to him. As far as exorcisms go they are 100% real and it’s a shame that people don’t believe in them or the fact that demons don’t exist. They were a big factor in the reason why I came back to the Catholic Church.
 
I’d like to see James Randi stay overnight at Bobby Mackey’s Blues Club in Wilder, KY. or the Linda Vista Hospital in Los Angeles and* then* be able to prove that ghosts don’t exist. Good luck to him.
My friend you are mistaken. No one is under obligation to prove that ghosts do not exist.
As far as exorcisms go they are 100% real and it’s a shame that people don’t believe in them or the fact that demons don’t exist. They were a big factor in the reason why I came back to the Catholic Church.
Of course the process of performing exorcisms is real. But that does not mean that the demons are real, just like a Uri Geller-type of dishonest magician performing spoon-bending does not mean that there are paranormal forces “out there”.
 
I deny, first of all, that each of those are comparable. Three out of those four, for example, are condemned by the Church, and, I think, can be demonstrably shown to be false. I have SEEN poltergeist activity, so…
Not much of an answer. What the Church “forbids” is irrelevant, since there are many people who do not accept the Church’s authority, and they definitely believe in witches, werewolves, imps, faires, faith healing, paranormal spoon bending and all sorts of nonsense. My question was: “do you think that they are stupid?”. Especially, since you think that some of those can be shown to be false? What do you think of people who believe something that can be shown to be false? (By the way, they cannot shown to be false, all that can be shown is that the assumption of their existence is unnecessary).

As for you having “seen” poltergeist “activity”, did you have a camera at hand?
 
Not much of an answer. What the Church “forbids” is irrelevant, since there are many people who do not accept the Church’s authority, and they definitely believe in witches, werewolves, imps, faires, faith healing, paranormal spoon bending and all sorts of nonsense. My question was: “do you think that they are stupid?”. Especially, since you think that some of those can be shown to be false? What do you think of people who believe something that can be shown to be false? (By the way, they cannot shown to be false, all that can be shown is that the assumption of their existence is unnecessary).
They cannot be shown to be false? That is news to me. Werewolves, imps, fairies, etc. do not exist. We have good reasons for their non-existence. As for witches, there are women (and men) who call themselves witches. Many of them have claimed to be in touch with the demonic, though I am not asserting that those claims are true. And as for faith healing, this one I will give you. It is hard to prove or disprove. For what it’s worth, my aunt suffered from three tumors on her brain. Thinks were looking pretty dire. She lost a lot of weight and went into depression for several months before telling us. Several nights after my family prayed for her, they all disappeared, as if they were never there. We have all the documentation, and I am considering bringing this case to the Church.

So, setting aside that witches DO exist and that faith healing is ambiguous, we are left with werewolves, imps, and fairies, which do not exist. Do I think people that believe in those things are stupid? No. I wouldn’t judge a whole person on that alone. I just think they are false in those particular beliefs. That’s my answer
As for you having “seen” poltergeist “activity”, did you have a camera at hand?
No. Even if I did, it certainly wouldn’t be on mind.

What’s with the scare quotes? Your atheism puts you in an interesting position, I think. You have to think I am lying to you, I was hallucinating (lol, I love this explanation), or some other explanation. I was once an atheist. I cannot speak for you, but for me, my disbelief in the supernatural was merely the result of accumulated inertia from an unargued, presumptuous naturalism. Once I saw that, the resistance melted away, and I was able to look at things from a more rational perspective.
 
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