What are just reasons to prevent immigration?

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Considering how immigration has become a very controversial issue both in the United States and Europe in recent years I’m trying to do some investigating on this issue to gain clarity on the Church’s position and hope someone could provide some insight.

I’ve quotes from the Catechism, Caritas In Veritate, and Pacem In Terris, but I found the language to be rather vague, and when it comes to debating certain specific policies I’m uncertain of how to react given what seems to me to be a lack of specifics.

From what I have gathered it seems that an obvious case when preventing immigration would be just would be in a situation where the host nation simply doesn’t have the resources or ability to provide for the population of incoming immigrants.

But are there other reasons that would be just for preventing immigration? Say for example the concern of European societies that a large influx of Muslim immigrants would undermine their laws and institutions built on a Christian heritage. Not to say all Muslims would do so, but if these populations increase to a strong plurality and start to push for policies that are detrimental to the rights and liberties of Christians or Non-Muslims in general, is this not a genuine concern and a just reason to place limits on Muslim immigration?
 
Considering how immigration has become a very controversial issue both in the United States and Europe in recent years I’m trying to do some investigating on this issue to gain clarity on the Church’s position and hope someone could provide some insight.

I’ve quotes from the Catechism, Caritas In Veritate, and Pacem In Terris, but I found the language to be rather vague, and when it comes to debating certain specific policies I’m uncertain of how to react given what seems to me to be a lack of specifics.

From what I have gathered it seems that an obvious case when preventing immigration would be just would be in a situation where the host nation simply doesn’t have the resources or ability to provide for the population of incoming immigrants.

But are there other reasons that would be just for preventing immigration? Say for example the concern of European societies that a large influx of Muslim immigrants would undermine their laws and institutions built on a Christian heritage. Not to say all Muslims would do so, but if these populations increase to a strong plurality and start to push for policies that are detrimental to the rights and liberties of Christians or Non-Muslims in general, is this not a genuine concern and a just reason to place limits on Muslim immigration?
Sorry for no source, but listen to the Bishops and other Church leaders on the justice of immigration.

LOVE! ❤️
 
A country has the right to determine who can live within its territory, or who can go there at all.

Really, by the time a nation was too crowded to accept immigrants, the problem would solve itself, as such an overcrowded place would not be worth going to.

Other concerns depend upon the situation. Yes, a nation has the prerogative to protect its culture and foundational principles. But, for example, I’d say the USA should have done far more to welcome Jewish refugees from Nazism prior to WW2.

ICXC NIKA
 
I would say in terms of Catholic teaching it is a problem to refuse migration of peoples just for the sake of refusal or be arbitrary and capricious about it—ie they look different.

But that doesn’t happen much at all today in the West.

Countries do have sovereign rights and those rights need to be respected, but I refuse to subscribe to absolutes that every single person who has illegally crossed a border without proper documents needs to be hunted down and punished courtesy of John Q Taxpayer.

On the other hand, some radical groups are looking to demographically dominate other countries.
 
Considering how immigration has become a very controversial issue both in the United States and Europe in recent years I’m trying to do some investigating on this issue to gain clarity on the Church’s position and hope someone could provide some insight.

I’ve quotes from the Catechism, Caritas In Veritate, and Pacem In Terris, but I found the language to be rather vague, and when it comes to debating certain specific policies I’m uncertain of how to react given what seems to me to be a lack of specifics.

From what I have gathered it seems that an obvious case when preventing immigration would be just would be in a situation where the host nation simply doesn’t have the resources or ability to provide for the population of incoming immigrants.

But are there other reasons that would be just for preventing immigration? Say for example the concern of European societies that a large influx of Muslim immigrants would undermine their laws and institutions built on a Christian heritage. Not to say all Muslims would do so, but if these populations increase to a strong plurality and start to push for policies that are detrimental to the rights and liberties of Christians or Non-Muslims in general, is this not a genuine concern and a just reason to place limits on Muslim immigration?
I don’t think there is an easy answer to this. In my opinion it is a massively more complex issue than people often give it credit for being, and the morality of it is very “fact based”. It’s not a “yes/no” thing like abortion. It’s more like considering the morality of being fair in our business dealings. What’s fair? Do I have to lose money in order to be fair? Can I get wealthy and still be fair? It’s very fact-based.

Not all immigrants are the same, and their purposes are not all the same. Their desire to become a part of this country is not uniform among them. The ability of the country to provide for them or even absorb them varies. Many who favor generous immigration (and I am one who favors it in principle) nevertheless have concerns about “reform” as a general term. What does that mean? There is no single idea what it means, and that is one of the reasons why opinions are so varied about it.

One additional concern is how the courts will deal with “reform”. Let’s say a law is passed legalizing everyone, giving them a fast track to citizenship, but requiring strict compliance with immigration laws after that. Well, are we going to guard the border then in order to enforce that “generous” gesture, or will we find ourselves in the very same place 10 years from now due to lack of enforcement?

Who will be advantaged, and how will citizens react to that? If we proceed with the “family based” policy we tend to have now, will that do nothing but swell the welfare rolls with people who could do better being here than wherever they came from? If we concentrate on capabilities, we’re likely to shut out Hispanics with poor educations and favor middle easterners and far easterners who are much better educated. But how will citizens react to an “open door policy” to the Middle East, knowing some of them will have jihadist sympathies we cannot detect? Supposedly 10% of the Muslim population worldwide has jihadist views. How many potential Tsarnaevs can one country handle, even with the best law enforcement?

George Bush had, in effect, an unspoken “Hispanic preference” by simply not enforcing the border and being fairly easygoing when it came to deportation. Well, that didn’t seem a terrible way to go since, at first, we were basically importing Christian people of a western culture with which most Americans were already pretty familiar and reasonably comfortable. But now, around 50% of illegal immigrants are not Hispanics. A lot of them are from the Middle East, and one has to ask oneself why that is. How many Americans would be okay with that if they knew it? Should they be okay with it?

Will the Courts allow an overt “Hispanic preference” or an “Eastern Europe” preference or a “Filipino preference”. While I might think those things wise and good for the country, as well as humane, will the courts allow such an obviously discriminatory policy? I have serious doubts about that.

And I, at least, feel obliged to consider the political climate of our times. I might not be ridiculous in thinking the current administration would gladly replace the population we have for the population it prefers, and would admit immigrants only if they were almost certain to support leftist policies.

So, to my thinking, there’s nothing easy about this. Yes, various bishops (a tiny minority) have made very broad general statements about immigration. But they are not speaking for the Church according to Canon Law. They are simply speaking for themselves. So, to me, there is not a lot of guidance coming from those few who are vocal about it.

I’m afraid, my friend, that it’s up to you to study it, think a lot about it, and decide. It’s a very complex thing.
 
I have two issues with illegal immigration. One, it sucks resources away from naturalised citizens or those who have entered legally. NZL is considerably different, but our health system will not turn away anyone who is sick or injured. As a result we have huge deficits in the budget where illegals have taken care and not attempted to pay it back - removing funds from a natural or legal citizen/resident. We patch up some illegal, send him home, and that’s a whole lot of resources being taken away form someone who’s been here their entire lives and paid taxes et cetera.

Two, by tolerating illegal immigration and offering services free of threat of report, we are not addressing the issue in their home nation. We should be helping the nations where these people are fleeing from. We need to make people want to stay in their own country and clean up their own messes. Foster indepedance. Foster better infilstracutre creation and democractic process in these countries. Not act as the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff when a truck load of them manages to sneak over the border.

Its unfortunately not an ideal situation, there are people suffering who have legit reasons for escaping, but creating social structures that encourage and do not penalise these individuals doesn’t help anyone in the long run.
 
I have two issues with illegal immigration. One, it sucks resources away from naturalised citizens or those who have entered legally. NZL is considerably different, but our health system will not turn away anyone who is sick or injured. As a result we have huge deficits in the budget where illegals have taken care and not attempted to pay it back - removing funds from a natural or legal citizen/resident. We patch up some illegal, send him home, and that’s a whole lot of resources being taken away form someone who’s been here their entire lives and paid taxes et cetera.

Two, by tolerating illegal immigration and offering services free of threat of report, we are not addressing the issue in their home nation. We should be helping the nations where these people are fleeing from. We need to make people want to stay in their own country and clean up their own messes. Foster indepedance. Foster better infilstracutre creation and democractic process in these countries. Not act as the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff when a truck load of them manages to sneak over the border.

Its unfortunately not an ideal situation, there are people suffering who have legit reasons for escaping, but creating social structures that encourage and do not penalise these individuals doesn’t help anyone in the long run.
Not sure if this is true where you live, but in Los Angeles immigrants often perform necessary menial labor that most other people in the community would probably frown upon. They are a GREAT asset for our community, and I wish them all the best. They deserve a better education than is afforded them, and I wish that they could at least enjoy the use some extra money by increasing the minimum wage.

LOVE! ❤️
 
Not sure if this is true where you live, but in Los Angeles immigrants often perform necessary menial labor that most other people in the community would probably frown upon. They are a GREAT asset for our community, and I wish them all the best. They deserve a better education than is afforded them, and I wish that they could at least enjoy the use some extra money by increasing the minimum wage.

LOVE! ❤️
Having the government increase the minimum wage would mean a lot of them would undoubtedly be out of work in a very short time.
 
Having the government increase the minimum wage would mean a lot of them would undoubtedly be out of work in a very short time.
But we need them. They are a necessity. Who else would do their line of work? They are extremely efficient at what they do, and so I would think this offsets the increased minimum wage. Other people simply cannot compete with them.

LOVE! ❤️
 
Not sure if this is true where you live, but in Los Angeles immigrants often perform necessary menial labor that most other people in the community would probably frown upon. They are a GREAT asset for our community, and I wish them all the best. They deserve a better education than is afforded them, and I wish that they could at least enjoy the use some extra money by increasing the minimum wage.

LOVE! ❤️
Why do any of this? If those who characteristically hire people for “menial” jobs had fewer people competing for those jobs and had to pay more for them, isn’t that better than keeping wages low by flooding the market with people vying for those jobs, leaving others unemployed altogether?

Personally, I have no motivation to ensure that those who hire nannies, gardeners, fruit pickers, kitchen workers, are able to do it on the cheap. So, maybe I have to pay twice as much for strawberries in January or to have someone else mow my lawn? I can live with that, and so can the American public generally.
 
Why do any of this? If those who characteristically hire people for “menial” jobs had fewer people competing for those jobs and had to pay more for them, isn’t that better than keeping wages low by flooding the market with people vying for those jobs, leaving others unemployed altogether?

Personally, I have no motivation to ensure that those who hire nannies, gardeners, fruit pickers, kitchen workers, are able to do it on the cheap. So, maybe I have to pay twice as much for strawberries in January or to have someone else mow my lawn? I can live with that, and so can the American public generally.
I have no problem with people who come here to work hard not jumping through all the official hoops. If these people are able to get a better start and, at the same time, keep certain prices down, bravo!

None of our forebears waited for the Indians to invite them to be in NA!

If you really feel so strongly about this, then get welfare programs abolished. This would force US citizens to work in the menial areas that are now worked by immigrants. It would hardly square with compassion for the poor, however.

ICXC NIKA
 
I have no problem with people who come here to work hard not jumping through all the official hoops. If these people are able to get a better start and, at the same time, keep certain prices down, bravo!

None of our forebears waited for the Indians to invite them to be in NA!

If you really feel so strongly about this, then get welfare programs abolished. This would force US citizens to work in the menial areas that are now worked by immigrants. It would hardly square with compassion for the poor, however.

ICXC NIKA
Thank you for stating that!

LOVE! ❤️
 
Unfortunately, when we just turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants coming in we don’t know which ones will be hard working and which ones will be gang members and criminals who are drug runners. So I think we have the right to control immigration to safeguard security.

Abolishing welfare is not the answer either, because some of those on welfare are unable to work and thus cannot do the menial jobs. In addition, those who are working the menial jobs will still need welfare because the pay in these jobs is often too low to support even the most basic expenses.

I don’t think an open door policy is the answer. And, to counter the argument that Europeans came here and weren’t invited by the Native Americans - the Native Americans, for the most part, did not have a concept of land or personal property ownership like we do now.
 
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

This poem is inscribed on the statue of Liberty.

Our country has always welcomed immigrants who want a better life, are willing to denounce their former citizenship, learn English and become Americans.

These are LEGAL immigrants.

There is not a wall high enough to stop** ILLEGAL immigrants** from sneaking across our border when the reward waiting on the other side is free health care, jobs, driver’s licenses and college tuition subsidized by American taxpaying Citizens.
 
But we need them. They are a necessity. Who else would do their line of work? They are extremely efficient at what they do, and so I would think this offsets the increased minimum wage. Other people simply cannot compete with them.

LOVE! ❤️
Only 2% of illegal immigrants work at menial jobs. 29% of Illegal immigrants receive welfare.
cis.org/

Report: LA County to pay $650 million in welfare benefits to illegal immigrant parents

dailycaller.com/2013/09/17/report-la-county-to-pay-650-million-in-welfare-benefits-to-illegal-immigrant-parents/#ixzz2yWB930W3

40% of all workers in L.A. County work for cash and pay no taxes. They have no Green cards.

Without foreign immigration, California would have ZERO population growth.
 
Only 2% of illegal immigrants work at menial jobs. 29% of Illegal immigrants receive welfare.
cis.org/

Report: LA County to pay $650 million in welfare benefits to illegal immigrant parents

dailycaller.com/2013/09/17/report-la-county-to-pay-650-million-in-welfare-benefits-to-illegal-immigrant-parents/#ixzz2yWB930W3

40% of all workers in L.A. County work for cash and pay no taxes. They have no Green cards.

Without foreign immigration, California would have ZERO population growth.
Thus the complexity of the issue
 
Our country has always welcomed immigrants who want a better life, are willing to denounce their former citizenship, learn English and become Americans.
It is no longer necessary to drop one’s previous nationality to become American.

It was in the 1900s, however, many of our citizens hold two or even 3 nationalities.

It isn’t an issue for me, except possibly in relation to political candidacy.

And since when were even natural-born citizens required to speak English??🙂

ICXC NIKA
 
I can understand people crossing our southern border. They are fleeing the violent narcotics trade. I across the border from El Paso in Ciudad Jaurez there is at least one murder every day linked to the drug trade.

I can understand people leaving Mexico as quickly as they can. There is a very real possibility they may not live another day.
 
I can understand people crossing our southern border. They are fleeing the violent narcotics trade. I across the border from El Paso in Ciudad Jaurez there is at least one murder every day linked to the drug trade.

I can understand people leaving Mexico as quickly as they can. There is a very real possibility they may not live another day.
However, the other side to that is we want to keep the criminals from Mexico out.

The answer is not to throw the border wide open but to ease the burden of visa procurement for those taking refuge in our square mileage.

ICXC NIKA.
 
It is no longer necessary to drop one’s previous nationality to become American.

It was in the 1900s, however, many of our citizens hold two or even 3 nationalities.

It isn’t an issue for me, except possibly in relation to political candidacy.

And since when were even natural-born citizens required to speak English??🙂

ICXC NIKA
The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance.

It is true that no one is required by law to speak English. But if an immigrant wants to make the best of the blessings of this country…it is to his advantage to learn the language as well as the customs and laws of this land and leave his old ways behind.
 
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