What are Protestant concerns with the sacrament of confession?

[rmcmullan]

I don’t know if you consider Mormons to be Protestants (most think we’re a awful cult), but I think the sacrament of confession is an important part of Christian life. Sins need to be repented of and part of that is seeking forgiveness. And some temptations need counseling. It’s hard for me to concieve of a church without some kind of way through sin.

Mormons don’t have the confession booth but if you need help, you can meet with the Bishop and discuss your perdicament. Serious problems can result in probabtion, dis-fellowship or ex-communication. But only if that person is seeking help.

People need to remember they are sinners, lest they are overcome with pride.

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

I don’t know if you consider Mormons to be Protestants (most think we’re a awful cult), but I think the sacrament of confession is an important part of Christian life. Sins need to be repented of and part of that is seeking forgiveness. And some temptations need counseling. It’s hard for me to concieve of a church without some kind of way through sin.

Mormons don’t have the confession booth but if you need help, you can meet with the Bishop and discuss your perdicament. Serious problems can result in probabtion, dis-fellowship or ex-communication. But only if that person is seeking help.

People need to remember they are sinners, lest they are overcome with pride.

I can’t fully speak for Catholics (yet), but I can say that most Christian theologians believe mormons to be outside Christianity because they do not agree on major tenants of the Christian faith. IMHO, mormons, jehovah’s witnesses, christian scientists, etc. are our modern version of gnostics. Mormons (from my understanding) use additional scriptures that were never part of the cannon (as they were written in the 1800’s) and have never been able to be proven by secondary sources (archeology/secular history).

I had a lot of mormon friends growing up and I have nothing but respect for their strong family units and devotion to their faith. I wouldnt say mormons are going to hell. I believe God alone makes those kind of judgments.

 

[jmcrae]

Serious problems can result in probabtion, dis-fellowship or ex-communication. But only if that person is seeking help.

Uh - was there a typo in there? I think I would probably choose not to seek help, if I thought I would be probated, disfellowshipped or excommunicated.

People need to remember they are sinners, lest they are overcome with pride.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[rmcmullan]

No typo. That’s the way it’s done. This can be a very sensitive topic so I don’t want to get to involved in the details but I like that in each the Catholic & Mormon churches, there’s ways to deal with the temptations that come into people’s lives. What I don’t like is a lot of the Protestant churches that don’t have either and to them it’s once saved, always saved. That seems to negate the entire idea of repentance & forgiveness.

 

[jmcrae]

No typo. That’s the way it’s done. This can be a very sensitive topic so I don’t want to get to involved in the details but I like that in each the Catholic & Mormon churches, there’s ways to deal with the temptations that come into people’s lives. What I don’t like is a lot of the Protestant churches that don’t have either and to them it’s once saved, always saved. That seems to negate the entire idea of repentance & forgiveness.

Good points.

With regard to the Mormon system, It just seems to me that people would be hesitant to seek help if the end result is that they would most likely be punished, instead of forgiven - so of the two, I definitely prefer the Catholic system.

 

[sassygal1973]

Every time I speak to a Protestant about confession, they say we can confess to the Father without any priests. I say that is too easy, and they always start quoting things I can’t even figure out, scripture they think that will be damaging to Catholics. even tho I too quote John 20:28, they still don’t get it. How do you convince them?

 

[jmcrae]

Every time I speak to a Protestant about confession, they say we can confess to the Father without any priests. I say that is too easy, and they always start quoting things I can’t even figure out, scripture they think that will be damaging to Catholics. even tho I too quote John 20:28, they still don’t get it. How do you convince them?

Talk about how wonderful it was, the last time you went.

 

[sassygal1973]

Talk about how wonderful it was, the last time you went.

That was good, I will next time

 

[valient_Lucy]

Good points.

With regard to the Mormon system, It just seems to me that people would be hesitant to seek help if the end result is that they would most likely be punished, instead of forgiven - so of the two, I definitely prefer the Catholic system.

I second that!

 

[inJESUS]

Every time I speak to a Protestant about confession, they say we can confess to the Father without any priests. I say that is too easy, and they always start quoting things I can’t even figure out, scripture they think that will be damaging to Catholics. even tho I too quote John 20:28, they still don’t get it. How do you convince them?

they confess to the Father without priest. Do they get married without one too? do they go to Mass without one too? why don’t they do all this without a priest by talking to the Father? those who oppose confession to a priest will understand its importance only and only after they do it

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

There are quite a few Catholics that do not believe in the necessity of confession to a priest for forgiveness of sins. I happen to fall in that category as well. At the same time, I also believe that confession to a priest/pastor/brother should be encouraged as examples of this are found in scripture. Our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ are there to help us in our journey, why not use them?

 

[MariaG]

they confess to the Father without priest. Do they get married without one too? do they go to Mass without one too? why don’t they do all this without a priest by talking to the Father? those who oppose confession to a priest will understand its importance only and only after they do it

Conversely, those who once they take advantage of confession with a priest as Christ intended, will realize the great and miraculous gift He gave us that is not available alone at your bedside.

As one you first confessed with perfect contrition and knows that my sins were forgiven without the benefit of a priest, but now confessed as shown to us in Scripture how Christ wished us to do, the difference is absolutely amazing.

I used to be told in my variouls non-Catholic Christian denoms. that once confessed, if those sins came back to me, it was just Satan because God had forgotten them. Guess what? When I confess to God with a priest, those sins never come back at all. The miracle is that not only does God forget, but Satan no longer has permission to harrass a Christian either!

God Bless,
Maria

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

I used to be told in my variouls non-Catholic Christian denoms. that once confessed, if those sins came back to me, it was just Satan because God had forgotten them. Guess what? When I confess to God with a priest, those sins never come back at all. The miracle is that not only does God forget, but Satan no longer has permission to harrass a Christian either!

God Bless,
Maria

Where is this found in scripture? I understand satan has the power to tempt us (as he did with Jesus) when God allows it. Where is it ever stated in scripture that satan has the power the authority or ability to accuse us directly? The only reference found in scripture dealing with satan and a believer in Christ is that he accuses the brethren before God himself as described in Revelation. Satan has no true power over any Christian nor does he have any claim to overtly control our thoughts.

I suggest reading Romans 8:28-39. I wont quote it for brevity.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208:28-39;&version=31;

Paul also stated in Corinthians that darkness can have no fellowship with light. Although Paul used the reference in regards to marriage, the principle he spoke of was a spiritual one that built on parables Christ used to teach about the inner workings of our heart/soul/spirit.

I was also raised in various charismatic/non-denominational churches and taught many times over how the devil was responsible for practically every bad thing that befell a believer. I was also taught that any remembrance of past sins was of the devil because “Christ forgot it” therefore it must come from him. I have found those teachings to be irresponsible nonsense at worst and an excuse for our own actions at best. The only one who has dominion in our heart/mind/soul (if we are Christians) is Christ.

Our own physical minds are not purged of our sins for a reason. If we forget our mistakes, then we will surely repeat them. Part of the “suffering” we experience as Christians is knowing how/when we fell short. We have to live with the knowledge and consequences our sin caused. That is not something that God pardons when we fall short, only the eternal consequences that sin brought to our life are forgiven and forgotten.

When we as Christians allow our minds to revert back to our sinful nature rather than the mind of Christ, we can, should and will be tormented by our past. I believe this to be a good thing for us. When we remember our past, hopefully our response should be to refocus on Christ as the Holy Spirit within us brings conviction when we stumble.

 

[MariaG]

Where is this found in scripture? I understand satan has the power to tempt us (as he did with Jesus) when God allows it. Where is it ever stated in scripture that satan has the power the authority or ability to accuse us directly? The only reference found in scripture dealing with satan and a believer in Christ is that he accuses the brethren before God himself as described in Revelation. Satan has no true power over any Christian nor does he have any claim to overtly control our thoughts.

I suggest reading Romans 8:28-39. I wont quote it for brevity.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%208:28-39;&version=31;

Paul also stated in Corinthians that darkness can have no fellowship with light. Although Paul used the reference in regards to marriage, the principle he spoke of was a spiritual one that built on parables Christ used to teach about the inner workings of our heart/soul/spirit.

I was also raised in various charismatic/non-denominational churches and taught many times over how the devil was responsible for practically every bad thing that befell a believer. I was also taught that any remembrance of past sins was of the devil because “Christ forgot it” therefore it must come from him. I have found those teachings to be irresponsible nonsense at worst and an excuse for our own actions at best. The only one who has dominion in our heart/mind/soul (if we are Christians) is Christ.

Our own physical minds are not purged of our sins for a reason. If we forget our mistakes, then we will surely repeat them. Part of the “suffering” we experience as Christians is knowing how/when we fell short. We have to live with the knowledge and consequences our sin caused. That is not something that God pardons when we fall short, only the eternal consequences that sin brought to our life are forgiven and forgotten.

When we as Christians allow our minds to revert back to our sinful nature rather than the mind of Christ, we can, should and will be tormented by our past. I believe this to be a good thing for us. When we remember our past, hopefully our response should be to refocus on Christ as the Holy Spirit within us brings conviction when we stumble.

My Nazarene Pastor would disagree with you. I do not remember the exact scripture they cited for this belief of theirs, but I do know this was what was taught. Were they wrong? Maybe.

But from personal experience, I found that when I confess sins alone to God they frequently come back to “haunt” me, even though I knew God forgave me, yet this never happens when I confess to God with a priest.

I have always accepted the explanation given to me by a Nazarene pastor, but it is possible they were wrong even though my personal experiences seem to verify their words.

I did not suggest that satan is controlling our thoughts when these sins are brought to mind but Satan can certainly harass us and bringing to mind past sins could certainly be one of the ways that Satan tries to harass Christians. Harassment by demons is not dominion.

It is good that you can turn to good and see value when your past sins are brought to mind. I certainly can recall my sins, but they no longer “harass” my mind as when I was a non-Catholic.

But there certainly are Catholics who have fallen prey to scruples and do not find confession to be the same gift that I have. Luther comes to mind most forcefully. Maybe this gift is not given to all with sacramental confession?

Don’t know, but I do know the difference for me between on my knees alone in my bedroom and doing it the way Christ instructed bring about two very different results for me.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

I don’t know about you, but if I had to confess every sin I can think of to a priest, I think he would tell me he has other people he needs to serve and to sin no more. The 80’s movie “The Goonies” comes to mind when chunk has to tell the criminals holding him “everything”.

I certainly understand how confessing to not only a priest, but to a brother or the person you sinned against lifts a burden that just saying sorry to God on your knees will not do. I guess my understanding parts company when blame is laid on satan for remembering unresolved guilt. I think our own fallen nature needs little to no help in that regard. Can satan use knowledge of our guilt in temptation, sure. Christ told Peter “get thee behind me satan”. Did satan take over Peter’s mouth and utter those words directly as Christs rebuke suggest or was his lack of understanding used in temptation?

If satan is personally (as a non-omnipresent, non-omnicent and fallen being) is wasting his time on me or most Christians, he is in real trouble and destined to fail.

 

[dessert]

I don’t know about you, but if I had to confess every sin I can think of to a priest, I think he would tell me he has other people he needs to serve and to sin no more. The 80’s movie “The Goonies” comes to mind when chunk has to tell the criminals holding him “everything”.

I certainly understand how confessing to not only a priest, but to a brother or the person you sinned against lifts a burden that just saying sorry to God on your knees will not do. I guess my understanding parts company when blame is laid on satan for remembering unresolved guilt. I think our own fallen nature needs little to no help in that regard. Can satan use knowledge of our guilt in temptation, sure. Christ told Peter “get thee behind me satan”. Did satan take over Peter’s mouth and utter those words directly as Christs rebuke suggest or was his lack of understanding used in temptation?

If satan is personally (as a non-omnipresent, non-omnicent and fallen being) is wasting his time on me or most Christians, he is in real trouble and destined to fail.

This is also a mystery to me because there are a few people at my church that go to confession almost every day and some do not feel well if they do not receive the Eucharist every day in fact it is like an obsession with them. They are very nervous people. In fact they appear to me to be close to having nervous breakdowns? I have tried confessing to the bro and sis but things usually get misunderstood so have kind of given up on that except to just say I am sorry if I am late etc. My priest just tells me say contition for any sins which covers a lot and talk specifically about the most concerned ones. I liked that movie and I think Chunk was stalling to save his own life. He was so cute and funny. I can watch it over and over. I liked the ending when they didn’t even get out with the gold but got all they really needed to get on with their lives. Have you seen the princess bride?
return from the desert

 

[JoeyWarren]

Thats not how Christians (Protestant or other) believe. Christ commanded us if someone took our coat, to not stop them from taking the rest of our clothing as well and to not ask for it back. Paul said we could sin but by no means is the grace and mercy of Christ’s sacrifice a license to commit willful sinful acts.
.

Whoever said it was a license. Refer to my last comment to completely answer this.

Someone who is truly repentant would not continue to enjoy a stolen plasma tv, they would give it back.

That may be only speculation and personal opinion. I don’t think there is even any biblical support for that posistion. But I could be wrong. I think a person would keep quiet about the possession of it if a risk of being arrested, publicly pointed out and possibly imprisoned. This falls inline with the Jews in the attic scenario. Nazis come in and ask you if are hiding Jews. Most would lie and say no for various reasons such as they think the Jews would be killed. Some would lie and say no because of fear of being arrested and possibly executed for harboring the Jews.

As Christians, we shouldn’t ask for it to be returned or demand restitution but extend forgiveness and mercy as Christ did.

Oh but we do. Our government is supposedly christian based but we demand restitution in the form of imprisonment even for the most contrite and repentive person. We demand the restitution in the form of the death penalty for those that commit murder even if they are truely contrite and repentive.

How many of us live up to that?
I’ll be the first to say I’ve fallen short of that one

An honest answer? I hope I would be able to say for instance if someone stole from me “Well the person stole it, his need for it must be greater then mine own”. But no doubt I would fall short as well. You are one step above most Protestants that I know personally. The ones I know are pompous and arrogant once you cut away the skin and fat to the point that they believe they are impervious to sin because they are saved. Some are so convinced they are impervious to sin since they are saved, they ignore the above scriptures that say a christian can sin. Even when they do sin, they are oblivious to it because they are convinced they cannot sin. Major vices and their subsets are invisible to the minds conception. These same people do not believe they have one single iota of arrogance, pride, gluttony, pride, lust, sloth, and greed. Subsets of these? just do a thesaurus search on any of these vices…

I hope I was not to harsh…I am trying to be charitable…

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

This is also a mystery to me because there are a few people at my church that go to confession almost every day and some do not feel well if they do not receive the Eucharist every day in fact it is like an obsession with them. They are very nervous people. In fact they appear to me to be close to having nervous breakdowns? I have tried confessing to the bro and sis but things usually get misunderstood so have kind of given up on that except to just say I am sorry if I am late etc. My priest just tells me say contition for any sins which covers a lot and talk specifically about the most concerned ones. I liked that movie and I think Chunk was stalling to save his own life. He was so cute and funny. I can watch it over and over. I liked the ending when they didn’t even get out with the gold but got all they really needed to get on with their lives. Have you seen the princess bride?
return from the desert

I know people like that as well. God bless their hunger. Paul pointed out that there is room for charity when it comes to how we practice our faith. For some people, drinking is a “sin” while others have no problems with spirits etc… I think the most important thing is having a mutual respect and charity for what works for each other and not look down on those who are different. If I had the time, I might go to mass more than once a week.

Something a deacon said to me recently put it in perspective when speaking of the sacrament of priestly orders. He said we are all members of the priesthood of believers. Our homes are as much a part of the church as the parish building. In our homes, we function as priests. We break bread, we minister, we do many of the same functions that the church does but to our families, friends and to those who come to our door. I never thought of my daily boring home life that way. It made me start questioning what goes on in my house or what doesn’t.

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

I don’t think there is even any biblical support for that posistion. But I could be wrong. I think a person would keep quiet about the possession of it if a risk of being arrested, publicly pointed out and possibly imprisoned. This falls inline with the Jews in the attic scenario. Nazis come in and ask you if are hiding Jews. Most would lie and say no for various reasons such as they think the Jews would be killed. Some would lie and say no because of fear of being arrested and possibly executed for harboring the Jews.

Keeping a TV is the same thing as hiding jews from nazi’s? One is disobeying an unjust law to keep a higher one, while the other is a simple property matter. I don’t see how these two can be compared. Are you saying that if you are repentant, you keep what does not belong to you because you are forgiven? To do so would be to violate the spirit of the greatest commandment. Would you keep someone else’s wife after asking forgiveness for committing adultery with her or return her to her husband?

Oh but we do. Our government is supposedly christian based but we demand restitution in the form of imprisonment even for the most contrite and repentive person. We demand the restitution in the form of the death penalty for those that commit murder even if they are truely contrite and repentive.

Our laws are based on the principle of justice and restitution as was the Jewish law. Just because someone says they are sorry does not mean we are exempt from the temporal consequences of that law. Christ acknowledged the roman government that he was subject to on earth by not only paying taxes, but by submitting to the trial and death on the cross. We are only exempt from eternal death and seperation from God that we deserve from our sins.

An honest answer? I hope I would be able to say for instance if someone stole from me “Well the person stole it, his need for it must be greater then mine own”. But no doubt I would fall short as well.

I believe both to cases to be true. We should not expect our cloak to returned AND we also should return what does not belong to us as it is the right thing to do.

You are one step above most Protestants that I know personally. The ones I know are pompous and arrogant once you cut away the skin and fat to the point that they believe they are impervious to sin because they are saved. Some are so convinced they are impervious to sin since they are saved, they ignore the above scriptures that say a christian can sin. Even when they do sin, they are oblivious to it because they are convinced they cannot sin. Major vices and their subsets are invisible to the minds conception. These same people…

I hope I was not to harsh…I am trying to be charitable…

I hope you take what I say with charity as well. All Christians sin, period!

First, I am not protestant (any longer). I have always been and always will be a Christian. If you ask me today, I will identify myself as such. If you ask me what church I belong to, I gladly say I am Catholic. My journey as a Christian has led me to the Catholic church.

I know many protestants that live lives as you illustrated. But that condition is not exclusive to Protestant believers. I had many misconceptions about the Catholic faith and catholics that I am learning are incorrect. I was told Catholics believe they are saved by works (earn their salvation) while “us Protestants” believe that works are primary evidence of the inner work of Christ. I found that my understanding of my own salvation in belief and what I was taught outside the Catholic church to be pretty close to each other. I’m telling you there is much more harmony than disharmony if we would put aside our own pride, prejudices and misconceptions and be reconciled to each other.

Yes there are plenty of Sunday only Catholics as there are Sunday only Protestants. I do not agree with “once saved-always saved” and many Protestants I know also do not believe this to be the best understanding of the inner workings of our salvation. It depends on how you frame salvation. I think the misunderstanding comes about by the word “pre-destined”. Protestants believe that those found in Christ were known to God before they were created and in a round about way “always saved”. Those who are not found to be in Christ were “never saved” though they confess Christ.

For me, pre-destination is incompatible with Catholic teaching as Catholics do not speak of the gift of salvation in those contexts. Catholics don’t just believe “you’re saved”. You were saved, you are being saved (and hopefully) will be saved upon death. To me, the Catholic teaching on salvation is fuller, very clear, and I agree with it as would many Protestants if we would speak the same language.

 

[MariaG]

I know many protestants that live lives as you illustrated. But that condition is not exclusive to Protestant believers. I had many misconceptions about the Catholic faith and catholics that I am learning are incorrect. I was told Catholics believe they are saved by works (earn their salvation) while “us Protestants” believe that works are primary evidence of the inner work of Christ. I found that my understanding of my own salvation in belief and what I was taught outside the Catholic church to be pretty close to each other. I’m telling you there is much more harmony than disharmony if we would put aside our own pride, prejudices and misconceptions and be reconciled to each other.

The Catholic Church is always ready and waiting for it’s separated brethren with open arms .

God Bless,
Maria